Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 10:33:36 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: [GLBSE] BFLS.RIG - BFL Hardware mining & Sales  (Read 26021 times)
Epoch
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 917



View Profile
July 15, 2013, 11:50:54 PM
 #261

From BFL_Jody's blogs on the BFL forum, they are still working through 'Day 1' (June 23/2012) orders for minirigs and singles. So not everyone who ordered those on the first day has yet received anything. Josh seems to be one of those unlucky ones. And he isn't alone.

As for Eclipse going to 10TH (actually 12TH as I write this), there are many Avalons, ASICMiners, and BFL Jalapenos (plus whatever Singles from 'Day 1' already shipped) out in the wild now, and continuing to increase ... it isn't unreasonable to expect that at least a portion of those would mine at Eclipse. Look at how much Slush (18TH now) and Eligius (10TH now) have increased over the past month or two; they each added nearly 10TH to their 'pre-ASIC' hashrates ... and so did Eclipse. Nothing particularly unusual here.

Before an angry mob forms to cry "Foul!", how about waiting until minirigs from 'Day 2' start shipping. Assuming Josh has 'Day 1' orders, he should have his by then. And if he doesn't, I'm sure he'll be as angry and frustrated as the rest of us.

Josh, can you share what actual SC hardware is earmarked for BFLS/BFLS.RIG, and how much of that is a 'Day 1' order? I think the issue of power requirements was left unresolved; you last mentioned that you were working out a deal to make more power available.



BTC: 1DJVUnLuPA2bERTkyeir8bKn1eSoRCrYvx
NMC: NFcfHSBBnq622pAr1Xoh9KtnBPA5CUn6id
1481236416
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481236416

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481236416
Reply with quote  #2

1481236416
Report to moderator
1481236416
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481236416

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481236416
Reply with quote  #2

1481236416
Report to moderator
1481236416
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481236416

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481236416
Reply with quote  #2

1481236416
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481236416
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481236416

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481236416
Reply with quote  #2

1481236416
Report to moderator
1481236416
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481236416

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481236416
Reply with quote  #2

1481236416
Report to moderator
Michail1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 719


Www.Michail.Com


View Profile WWW
July 16, 2013, 01:55:24 AM
 #262

One thing I can confirm is that Day1 orders which paid with BTC are ahead of Day1 orders which paid via wire as it took BFL several days to confirm a wire. == Day4 order.

Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260



View Profile WWW
July 16, 2013, 03:14:34 AM
 #263

The reality of the situation is that I'm probably not going to get all of my orders in the order I ordered them in (that's quite a sentence).  Due to the delay in our shipping and the huge backlog, I am going to have to take a back seat to other paying customers.  It's doubly frustrating for me, since I bought and paid for orders before my employment for BFL was even a consideration or in the works, so there's no technical ethical dilemma to resolve... however, lots of people are/would be upset if I took all of my orders on day one for fairly obvious reasons and cries of bias and unfair treatment would abound.  Rightly or wrongly (and it pisses me off, make no mistake), I am simply not going to be able to take all of my orders in the order I should, because I am employed by BFL.

This whole deal really stresses me out to be honest and every day I consider just selling the whole deal and not having to worry about it anymore.  I would potentially consider selling the whole BFLS part and parcel to a trusted buyer, but I'm not even sure how to value it properly for a sale and if there is even anyone out there that wants to run BFLS in the same manner.  I would really like to move on and not have to focus on this particular issue any longer, as I really don't have time for it currently. 

As far as power and space goes ... I can acquire enough for those things, but it is fairly costly, so I'm not sure how to convert the BFLS shares into the ASIC shares at a fair rate, since the current rate measured by the percentage held back for operating costs is likely to not be enough to cover expenses going forward.  While it will be fine up front, on the back end I would be taking a substantial loss I suspect, so converting now at one rate would not account for the rate later on. 

One thing I can do in that situation is take the hosting costs out from the top before paying out shares and once the hosting cost is satisfied each month, start paying out the shares as appropriate.  That'd kind of a headache though.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
server
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 813


~\/~


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 04:36:18 AM
 #264

Ok, but we're talking here about 2 rigs, Giga bought 30 orso, how can this be such a problem ?

Why don't you cancel the ordered rig upgrades, get a refund and rename this project BF.RIG ? Wink

This way you will not have a problem with clients/hosting/power costs, less the 3 kW usage for 3 TH and operational from October.

I'm not trolling, just trying to think out of the box (into another box;))
Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260



View Profile WWW
July 16, 2013, 04:56:26 AM
 #265

Gigavps does not have anywhere close to 30 rigs at this time.  I'm not sure why people think he's got tons of rigs right now. 

For 3 TH, that would run over 14 kW of power, not 3 kW

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
server
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 813


~\/~


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 05:06:15 AM
 #266

I meant the other BF... 2.7 GH/sec @ 0.8W/GH.

Using this would solve a lot of your/our problems.

Or is this not something you would like to consider ?
Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260



View Profile WWW
July 16, 2013, 05:19:29 AM
 #267

The only demonstrated efficiency for Bitfury is 1.2GH/sec @ .8W/GH.  There's still no working product available, so it's kind of moot.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
server
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 813


~\/~


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 05:35:19 AM
 #268

I don't know the meaning of the word 'moot' but that chip is tested by a lot of people and is working fine.

https://bitcentury.io/blog/initial-testing-of-bitfury-asic

I'm only suggesting something, you have to come up with a solution.

Epoch
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 917



View Profile
July 16, 2013, 05:38:28 AM
 #269

The reality of the situation is that I'm probably not going to get all of my orders in the order I ordered them in (that's quite a sentence).  Due to the delay in our shipping and the huge backlog, I am going to have to take a back seat to other paying customers.  It's doubly frustrating for me, since I bought and paid for orders before my employment for BFL was even a consideration or in the works, so there's no technical ethical dilemma to resolve... however, lots of people are/would be upset if I took all of my orders on day one for fairly obvious reasons and cries of bias and unfair treatment would abound.  Rightly or wrongly (and it pisses me off, make no mistake), I am simply not going to be able to take all of my orders in the order I should, because I am employed by BFL.

This whole deal really stresses me out to be honest and every day I consider just selling the whole deal and not having to worry about it anymore.  I would potentially consider selling the whole BFLS part and parcel to a trusted buyer, but I'm not even sure how to value it properly for a sale and if there is even anyone out there that wants to run BFLS in the same manner.  I would really like to move on and not have to focus on this particular issue any longer, as I really don't have time for it currently.  

As far as power and space goes ... I can acquire enough for those things, but it is fairly costly, so I'm not sure how to convert the BFLS shares into the ASIC shares at a fair rate, since the current rate measured by the percentage held back for operating costs is likely to not be enough to cover expenses going forward.  While it will be fine up front, on the back end I would be taking a substantial loss I suspect, so converting now at one rate would not account for the rate later on.  

One thing I can do in that situation is take the hosting costs out from the top before paying out shares and once the hosting cost is satisfied each month, start paying out the shares as appropriate.  That'd kind of a headache though.
If you no longer want to deal with BFLS/BFLS.RIG then buy out the shareholders, as per the original terms:

BFLS: $600/200 shares is $3.00 per share.
BFLS.RIG: $15295/6058 shares is $2.52 per share.

BTC: 1DJVUnLuPA2bERTkyeir8bKn1eSoRCrYvx
NMC: NFcfHSBBnq622pAr1Xoh9KtnBPA5CUn6id
Michail1
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 719


Www.Michail.Com


View Profile WWW
July 16, 2013, 05:38:57 AM
 #270

Josh,
Are you thinking that people should take delivery instead of hosting?  It would be an option I wouldn't mind if you suggested as such.
And/Or take partial delivery.

Still wondering if you have come up with a plan for WHAT could be hosted?
Just MRs?
$300 for original MR converts to $300 for MR (1.5th) or $325 or $300 per MR (500ghash), etc.

I am interested in seeing what you have come up with before waiting until taking delivery of units.

Also, is there any hint as to how many units are in the queue (and how many in that queue are slated to come to you (hosted or purchased by you)).
- Just hurts to see Jody posting MRs shipped from Day1 orders as I can't imagine there being that many.

Any idea how many FPGA units were paid upgrades to ASIC?


server
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 813


~\/~


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 05:49:25 AM
 #271


If you no longer want to deal with BFLS/BFLS.RIG then buy out the shareholders, as per the original terms:

BFLS: $600/200 shares is $3.00 per share.
BFLS.RIG: $15295/6058 shares is $2.52 per share.


I don't know what you paid, but this is what I paid:
Quote
IPO share price is going to be .7 BTC per share, although I am taking some limited orders for pre-IPO at .6 per share at the moment.
Vbs
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
 #272

If you no longer want to deal with BFLS/BFLS.RIG then buy out the shareholders, as per the original terms:

BFLS: $600/200 shares is $3.00 per share.
BFLS.RIG: $15295/6058 shares is $2.52 per share.

The really big problem is that the asic upgrade is not factored there. If Josh doesn't want to deal with this further, the best way would be to liquidate everything after the conversion to asics, by auctioning them. This would guarantee a correct book value for the shares, based on the current value of asic hardware.
Epoch
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 917



View Profile
July 16, 2013, 02:23:57 PM
 #273

If you no longer want to deal with BFLS/BFLS.RIG then buy out the shareholders, as per the original terms:

BFLS: $600/200 shares is $3.00 per share.
BFLS.RIG: $15295/6058 shares is $2.52 per share.
The really big problem is that the asic upgrade is not factored there. If Josh doesn't want to deal with this further, the best way would be to liquidate everything after the conversion to asics, by auctioning them. This would guarantee a correct book value for the shares, based on the current value of asic hardware.
Yes, I agree with that. Existing BFLS and BFLS.RIG shares would be converted to 'ASIC' shares using formulas found earlier in this thread, meaning that additional shares would be created and assigned to Josh. The ASIC (and remaining FPGA) equipment would be auctioned off with the proceeds distributed according to how many shares are held.

I have stated numerous times that I would prefer to continue as a shareholder here, but I respect the terms of the original contract which states that should the operator be unable or unwilling to continue, the assets would be liquidated and the proceeds disbursed. If that is what Josh decides to do, it is his decision to make.

BTC: 1DJVUnLuPA2bERTkyeir8bKn1eSoRCrYvx
NMC: NFcfHSBBnq622pAr1Xoh9KtnBPA5CUn6id
GMD1987
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 29


View Profile
July 16, 2013, 09:32:28 PM
 #274

If you no longer want to deal with BFLS/BFLS.RIG then buy out the shareholders, as per the original terms:

BFLS: $600/200 shares is $3.00 per share.
BFLS.RIG: $15295/6058 shares is $2.52 per share.
The really big problem is that the asic upgrade is not factored there. If Josh doesn't want to deal with this further, the best way would be to liquidate everything after the conversion to asics, by auctioning them. This would guarantee a correct book value for the shares, based on the current value of asic hardware.
Yes, I agree with that. Existing BFLS and BFLS.RIG shares would be converted to 'ASIC' shares using formulas found earlier in this thread, meaning that additional shares would be created and assigned to Josh. The ASIC (and remaining FPGA) equipment would be auctioned off with the proceeds distributed according to how many shares are held.

I have stated numerous times that I would prefer to continue as a shareholder here, but I respect the terms of the original contract which states that should the operator be unable or unwilling to continue, the assets would be liquidated and the proceeds disbursed. If that is what Josh decides to do, it is his decision to make.
+1 for preferring to continue as a shareholder.  That being said, if a liquidation is forthcoming, I think an auction would be the best way to go about doing so. 
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1848


View Profile
July 23, 2013, 10:05:33 PM
 #275

Oh, I just looked it up now that this thread reappeared and it seems I have still one single unclaimed share in BFLS.RIG... Shocked

Any way to still claim that?
Could I please get an answer on this one?! Sad

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
Epoch
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 917



View Profile
July 24, 2013, 12:28:26 AM
 #276

Oh, I just looked it up now that this thread reappeared and it seems I have still one single unclaimed share in BFLS.RIG... Shocked

Any way to still claim that?
Could I please get an answer on this one?! Sad
I have no intention of playing the Devil here but, pragmatically, let it go. One share is not worth anyone's time, including yours. You would currently be getting approximately 0.00005 BTC per day.

BTC: 1DJVUnLuPA2bERTkyeir8bKn1eSoRCrYvx
NMC: NFcfHSBBnq622pAr1Xoh9KtnBPA5CUn6id
Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260



View Profile WWW
July 24, 2013, 06:17:31 AM
 #277

Oh, I just looked it up now that this thread reappeared and it seems I have still one single unclaimed share in BFLS.RIG... Shocked

Any way to still claim that?
Could I please get an answer on this one?! Sad

Not really, Sukrim.  It's all pretty much done and buried at this point.  Do you have other shares already active or just that one?

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
server
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 813


~\/~


View Profile
July 24, 2013, 10:23:26 AM
 #278

So BFL can deliver the rigs we ordered but you refuse to accept these because of what reason exactly?

Your job overthere ??


Nevermind..
Epoch
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 917



View Profile
July 25, 2013, 04:43:09 AM
 #279

Josh, I was going to wait a couple of weeks before posting this, but don't really much point in delaying.

We are all seeing the income from BFLS/BFLS.RIG drying up as difficulty climbs. It is only going to get worse as the weeks pass. With your post a week ago stating that you really don't know when the ASIC gear is going to show up, and you considering stepping down from BFLS or liquidating it, it leaves shareholders in somewhat of "limbo".

If no one is stepping up to purchase BFLS, and ASICS are not expected to show up any time soon, I think (as much as I hate to say it) that liquidation may be in the shareholders' best interest and we should seriously consider/discuss it. And the sooner the better, because our asset value will only drop as difficulty continues to climb.

Let me start by throwing out a few thoughts to encourage discussion.

Option 1: Full Liquidation

- factor in the ASICs already ordered. If all FPGA hardware has been earmarked for upgrade, the calculations here apply:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89902.msg1455088#msg1455088
or, if not all FPGA hardware has been reserved for upgrade, these calculations will need to change a bit.
- auction off the hardware (ASIC preorders and whatever FPGA gear that isn't slated for upgrade). Another option might be to negotiate with Lab_Rat; he is looking for hardware to add to his mining farm and he would certainly pay a premium for ASIC gear that will arrive soon. With his recent IPO he should have a lot of bitcoin.
- distribute the BTC to shareholders.
- BFLS and BFLS.RIG would then be considered cleanly closed.

Option 2: Partial Liquidation

- Josh, in case you want to keep some of the incoming ASIC hardware for yourself, here is a way to do so. With the extra shares you would obtain from the ASIC conversion (see links above), you would certainly have enough for 1 or more SC MiniRigs and Singles. So instead of paying yourself out in BTC by liquidating everything, you would keep some of the hardware in lieu of your payment.
- as a rough example, let's assume you get assigned 1/2 the shares of an ASIC minirig and you have ordered 6. Your shares are then the equivalent of 3 minirigs. You liquidate 3 of them and distribute the proceeds to the shareholders (excluding yourself), and you keep the other 3 for yourself.
- this way, BFLS and BFLS.RIG are still cleanly closed, and you get to keep a chunk of the ASIC hardware whenever it happens to show up.

In both Option 1 and Option 2, shareholders would receive the exact same payment. The only difference is that Option 1 gives you your cut as well, while Option 2 gives you a portion of the incoming ASIC hardware in lieu of your cut.

Comments?

BTC: 1DJVUnLuPA2bERTkyeir8bKn1eSoRCrYvx
NMC: NFcfHSBBnq622pAr1Xoh9KtnBPA5CUn6id
Inaba
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260



View Profile WWW
July 25, 2013, 10:31:14 PM
 #280

Option 1 is probably the best way to go, although it's hard to value the upgrade's in a sale price, since I don't have a specific ship date and there's no way I would even begin to guarantee one at the moment.  That's my only concern with that.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!