Blockchain User Issued Assets Will Change Everything [Video]

[matt608]

This video made it yesterday to the front of r/bitcoin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzruOULgmng

What are people's thoughts on it?  The possibilities are endless.
Here's the reddit discussion - http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2q073j/blockchain_user_issued_assets_will_change/

Any creative ideas on what else could be done with a blockchain user issued asset?

[delulo]

Interesting indeed! Quite a different perspective on crypto...

[Jamie_Boulder]

Interesting thoughts from both of them however like he said, we use this stuff everyday and it's not crucial or a big benefit in any of the current scenarios (flyer miles, credit points etc).

[delulo]

Interesting thoughts from both of them however like he said, we use this stuff everyday and it's not crucial or a big benefit in any of the current scenarios (flyer miles, credit points etc).

What can be said though I guess is that barriers to entry to issue you r own token for all kinds of purposes becomes much more easy plus it costs close to nothing. In addition there is the possibility that the transfer of those tokens becomes accountable / public.

What I found particularly convincing though was the possibility to trade between user issued assets and price stable crypto currency that has no counterparty risk.

[QuestionAuthority]

I thought people gave up on the Ripple idea? The Bitshare bullshit is taking a difficult to understand concept, for the general public, and turning it into an impossible to understand concept. Why won't developers and designers learn when it's time to stop and just promote. Let Bitcoin become fully entrenched before you mindfuck the public with yet another complicated system. So when I have tokens do I have coins and shares or do I need coins to get shares and tokens or shares of the tokens of coins? Oy vey!

[matt608]

Interesting thoughts from both of them however like he said, we use this stuff everyday and it's not crucial or a big benefit in any of the current scenarios (flyer miles, credit points etc).

Some of the scenarios are a big benefit, like the stock market having much lower trading fees (10-100x lower fees).  For the issuance as mere tokens there isn't as big a difference.  I don't know what the kind of savings would be for a company issuing flyer myles.  It could still be a decent saving.  

I'm curious of much smaller businesses, or other uses like insurance.  They make great freebies or as providing access to services.  You  could get access to stuff if you own a coin, a bit like a security clearance.  Rather than paying someone, the token they could allow access like a members club.

[matt608]

I thought people gave up on the Ripple idea? The Bitshare bullshit is taking a difficult to understand concept, for the general public, and turning it into an impossible to understand concept. Why won't developers and designers learn when it's time to stop and just promote. Let Bitcoin become fully entrenched before you mindfuck the public with yet another complicated system. So when I have tokens do I have coins and shares or do I need coins to get shares and tokens or shares of the tokens of coins? Oy vey!

If you've looked at coinmarketcap lately you see the Ripple idea has very much not been given up on, but that's not the topic of the video.  It's about user issued assets rather than IOUs.  The complexity isn't a problem because the existing financial system is extremely complex and people don't care.  As long as it works the general public don't need to understand it.

Developers + designers should not stop innovating.  Bitcoin is opening up a world of opportunities.  The best discoveries lead to more discoveries, just like the best questions lead to more questions.  It's growth of the crypto industry.

Please lets keep this on topic of what could be done with blockchain based UIAs (user issued assets).

[QuestionAuthority]

I thought people gave up on the Ripple idea? The Bitshare bullshit is taking a difficult to understand concept, for the general public, and turning it into an impossible to understand concept. Why won't developers and designers learn when it's time to stop and just promote. Let Bitcoin become fully entrenched before you mindfuck the public with yet another complicated system. So when I have tokens do I have coins and shares or do I need coins to get shares and tokens or shares of the tokens of coins? Oy vey!

If you've looked at coinmarketcap lately you see the Ripple idea has very much not been given up on, but that's not the topic of the video.  It's about user issued assets rather than IOUs.  The complexity isn't a problem because the existing financial system is extremely complex and people don't care.  As long as it works the general public don't need to understand it.

Developers + designers should not stop innovating.  Bitcoin is opening up a world of opportunities.  The best discoveries lead to more discoveries, just like the best questions lead to more questions.  It's growth of the crypto industry.

Please lets keep this on topic of what could be done with blockchain based UIAs (user issued assets).

Ok, Bitcoin is seen as too complex and difficult to use for most people I know. Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins. Businesses are only accepting btc if BitPay converts them to dollars immediately. If not for individuals, do you expect only banks, finance companies and businesses to use UIAs when they won't even accept Bitcoin or hold it for long? UIAs are a great idea who's time hasn't arrived yet. Bitcoin adoption should come first. I never said stop developing new ideas, just learn to pace them more effectively. Ever heard of Microsoft Bob? Not every idea under development is golden.

[delulo]

I thought people gave up on the Ripple idea? The Bitshare bullshit is taking a difficult to understand concept, for the general public, and turning it into an impossible to understand concept. Why won't developers and designers learn when it's time to stop and just promote. Let Bitcoin become fully entrenched before you mindfuck the public with yet another complicated system. So when I have tokens do I have coins and shares or do I need coins to get shares and tokens or shares of the tokens of coins? Oy vey!

If you've looked at coinmarketcap lately you see the Ripple idea has very much not been given up on, but that's not the topic of the video.  It's about user issued assets rather than IOUs.  The complexity isn't a problem because the existing financial system is extremely complex and people don't care.  As long as it works the general public don't need to understand it.

Developers + designers should not stop innovating.  Bitcoin is opening up a world of opportunities.  The best discoveries lead to more discoveries, just like the best questions lead to more questions.  It's growth of the crypto industry.

Please lets keep this on topic of what could be done with blockchain based UIAs (user issued assets).

Ok, Bitcoin is seen as too complex and difficult to use for most people I know. Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins. Businesses are only accepting btc if BitPay converts them to dollars immediately. If not for individuals, do you expect only banks, finance companies and businesses to use UIAs when they won't even accept Bitcoin or hold it for long? UIAs are a great idea who's time hasn't arrived yet. Bitcoin adoption should come first. I never said stop developing new ideas, just learn to pace them more effectively. Ever heard of Microsoft Bob? Not every idea under development is golden.

I think a few things are confused here:

There is complexity of the technology for one and a user friendly way of making use of the technology.

Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins.

That is for regulatory reasons not due to the complexity of technology.

If not for individuals, do you expect only banks, finance companies and businesses to use UIAs when they won't even accept Bitcoin or hold it for long?

You have to distinguish issuance and usage. Issuance is mainly done by institutions (but also by companies or individuals), usage would be mainly covered by individuals (but also inst. and companies).

UIAs are a great idea who's time hasn't arrived yet. Bitcoin adoption should come first. I never said stop developing new ideas, just learn to pace them more effectively.

Agree! Timing is crucial. But should innovation by holden back and who really knows when the time has come? Also the bitshares stuff will take another year or half a year maybe to be as powerful as it can be. So maybe the timing is right

Overall I do not think Bitshares is that complicated, they just sucked at simple communication. Bitshares.tv and https://bytemaster.github.io/ are trying to change that.

[Shuai]

I thought people gave up on the Ripple idea? The Bitshare bullshit is taking a difficult to understand concept, for the general public, and turning it into an impossible to understand concept. Why won't developers and designers learn when it's time to stop and just promote. Let Bitcoin become fully entrenched before you mindfuck the public with yet another complicated system. So when I have tokens do I have coins and shares or do I need coins to get shares and tokens or shares of the tokens of coins? Oy vey!

The reason why the ripple model is superior to the centralized exchange model is because you cannot gox people as easily when you only hold their fiat. Imagine where bitcoin would be now if gox never happened?

The way it works is that you deposit money to a gateway, lets say mtgox. Then mtgox sends you back their own IOU asset called GOXUSD. If you send them the GOXUSD back, then you can get the corresponding amount of USD sent to your bank account. Once these IOU are on the blockchain, they can be traded among people just like a normal exchange, except it's done on the blockchain so you don't need to deposit your cryptocurrency with mtgox first. Most people are probably not comfortable with holding their money as IOU's backed by a promise from mark karpeles, so they trade their GOXUSD to bitUSD, a derivative that is pegged to USD (backed by 300% BTS collateral).

Now they can use this bitUSD (that has stable value but doesn't have counterparty risk) to trade for other things on the decentralized exchange. This could be either bitBTC (if they don't want to go into real BTC just yet and still want to be able to able to trade it quickly), or it could be a IOUBTC that is then instantly exchanged for real BTC through a gateway. The end result is that we have a decentralized exchange where BTC/USD can be traded with low risk, and when mark karpeles decides that he got hacked he will only be able to get his hands on the USD that was deposited into his exchange, no bitcoin or bitshares or anything else will reside there, because he is just a USD gateway. Overall it will result in a much safer environment for trading bitcoin, and they will always be ready to withdraw safely into your bitcoin wallet by exchanging your bitBTC to IOUBTC and then instantly send it out of the gateway and to your wallet on the bitcoin network.

All this is done even easier by the fact that you can use your bitcoin address on the bitshares network, so if you send IOUBTC to a gateway using your bitcoin address it will send real BTC back to you instantly.

[matt608]

I thought people gave up on the Ripple idea? The Bitshare bullshit is taking a difficult to understand concept, for the general public, and turning it into an impossible to understand concept. Why won't developers and designers learn when it's time to stop and just promote. Let Bitcoin become fully entrenched before you mindfuck the public with yet another complicated system. So when I have tokens do I have coins and shares or do I need coins to get shares and tokens or shares of the tokens of coins? Oy vey!

If you've looked at coinmarketcap lately you see the Ripple idea has very much not been given up on, but that's not the topic of the video.  It's about user issued assets rather than IOUs.  The complexity isn't a problem because the existing financial system is extremely complex and people don't care.  As long as it works the general public don't need to understand it.

Developers + designers should not stop innovating.  Bitcoin is opening up a world of opportunities.  The best discoveries lead to more discoveries, just like the best questions lead to more questions.  It's growth of the crypto industry.

Please lets keep this on topic of what could be done with blockchain based UIAs (user issued assets).

Ok, Bitcoin is seen as too complex and difficult to use for most people I know. Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins. Businesses are only accepting btc if BitPay converts them to dollars immediately. If not for individuals, do you expect only banks, finance companies and businesses to use UIAs when they won't even accept Bitcoin or hold it for long? UIAs are a great idea who's time hasn't arrived yet. Bitcoin adoption should come first. I never said stop developing new ideas, just learn to pace them more effectively. Ever heard of Microsoft Bob? Not every idea under development is golden.

Bitcoin adoption spreading definitely helps simplify things, as it forges ahead, carving out avenues to crypto-friendly businesses.  Bitcoin adoption is like a port into the crypto world, making it easier for merchants to then accept other cryptos, as there is a lot of overlap in the intellectual overhead, legal, technical implementation etc.  But the main reasons merchants don't hold onto bitcoin is the volatility, which has since been solved by bitUSD.  Merchants don't accept that either yet, far fewer do infact as its much newer.  It depends what your aiming for.  If its global bitcoin adoption then innovation from other cryptos will may outpace it, if its global crypto adoption, growth in all directions is best!  

[leopard2]

Uncle Sam won't like the idea of turning asset XYZ into a bearer instrument

and not just Uncle Sam ...

It is IMHO a pro for Ethereum, which could do such things due to the enormous flexibility built into it (sidechains and so on).

Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins.

That is for regulatory reasons not due to the complexity of technology.

This will become less of a problem once acceptance goes up. Why sell Bitcoins for USD, and jump through hoops, if you can convert them to a stable, reliable digital asset somewhere on the planet - and convert back to BTC anytime to pay your groceries?

[delulo]

Uncle Sam won't like the idea of turning asset XYZ into a bearer instrument

and not just Uncle Sam ...

It is IMHO a pro for Ethereum, which could do such things due to the enormous flexibility built into it (sidechains and so on).

Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins.

That is for regulatory reasons not due to the complexity of technology.

This will become less of a problem once acceptance goes up. Why sell Bitcoins for USD, and jump through hoops, if you can convert them to a stable, reliable digital asset somewhere on the planet - and convert back to BTC anytime to pay your groceries?

You can see in the video that issuers have the possibility to only sell tokens to known individuals which makes it a non bearer instrument...

I didn't get the link to Ethereum.

Go on an exchange and buy BTC always before buying something online? I think this will be automated also for the endconsumer some times (you hold USD on Bitpay -> bitpay buys BTC for you on an exchange and sends it to the merchant -> bitpay exchanges BTC for USD for the merchant).
But why do this if you can have BitUSD which has lower tx fees, higher security than POW, more anonymity, always the price of a USD and no chargebacks like BTC for the merchant?

[Q7]

I think the main advantage which I see in this is that it will make gold and silver trading becomes easier. If that is possible, I bet it is going to explode bitcoin acceptance as it will get all the big player coming into it. Plus this way you will overall have less risk.

[goosoodude]

There is complexity of the technology for one and a user friendly way of making use of the technology.

Thats the key issue here. VISA, google, even TCP/IP - the ordinary people have no idea about their inner workings. They simply know how to use them with a few clicks and a password.

I like where this is headed. The possibilities of blockchain tech is endless.

[Bizmark13]

There are already people doing this right now. Check out Counterparty. It allows people to generate their own user-issued assets on top of the Bitcoin blockchain. There is also Colored Coins (which I haven't heard much from lately) as well as Mastercoin - both of which also use the same Bitcoin blockchain. Then there are also altcoins like NXT, BitShares, Qora, and Peershares (built on top of Peercoin) which also support the same idea but do so in their own unique blockchains.

[dwma]

I thought people gave up on the Ripple idea? The Bitshare bullshit is taking a difficult to understand concept, for the general public, and turning it into an impossible to understand concept. Why won't developers and designers learn when it's time to stop and just promote. Let Bitcoin become fully entrenched before you mindfuck the public with yet another complicated system. So when I have tokens do I have coins and shares or do I need coins to get shares and tokens or shares of the tokens of coins? Oy vey!

If you've looked at coinmarketcap lately you see the Ripple idea has very much not been given up on, but that's not the topic of the video.  It's about user issued assets rather than IOUs.  The complexity isn't a problem because the existing financial system is extremely complex and people don't care.  As long as it works the general public don't need to understand it.

Developers + designers should not stop innovating.  Bitcoin is opening up a world of opportunities.  The best discoveries lead to more discoveries, just like the best questions lead to more questions.  It's growth of the crypto industry.

Please lets keep this on topic of what could be done with blockchain based UIAs (user issued assets).

Ok, Bitcoin is seen as too complex and difficult to use for most people I know. Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins. Businesses are only accepting btc if BitPay converts them to dollars immediately. If not for individuals, do you expect only banks, finance companies and businesses to use UIAs when they won't even accept Bitcoin or hold it for long? UIAs are a great idea who's time hasn't arrived yet. Bitcoin adoption should come first. I never said stop developing new ideas, just learn to pace them more effectively. Ever heard of Microsoft Bob? Not every idea under development is golden.

I think a few things are confused here:

There is complexity of the technology for one and a user friendly way of making use of the technology.

Banks are closing individual accounts if they are used for Bitcoins.

That is for regulatory reasons not due to the complexity of technology.

If not for individuals, do you expect only banks, finance companies and businesses to use UIAs when they won't even accept Bitcoin or hold it for long?

You have to distinguish issuance and usage. Issuance is mainly done by institutions (but also by companies or individuals), usage would be mainly covered by individuals (but also inst. and companies).

UIAs are a great idea who's time hasn't arrived yet. Bitcoin adoption should come first. I never said stop developing new ideas, just learn to pace them more effectively.

Agree! Timing is crucial. But should innovation by holden back and who really knows when the time has come? Also the bitshares stuff will take another year or half a year maybe to be as powerful as it can be. So maybe the timing is right

Overall I do not think Bitshares is that complicated, they just sucked at simple communication. Bitshares.tv and https://bytemaster.github.io/ are trying to change that.

Very well said.  Question authority and more effectively, question those who question authority !

[QuestionAuthority]

“Every step in life is merely part of a game. Every piece is necessary, but if you do not know how to control the game, then you become one of the pieces that are meant to be sacrificed.”
― Lionel Suggs

[delulo]

I think the main advantage which I see in this is that it will make gold and silver trading becomes easier. If that is possible, I bet it is going to explode bitcoin acceptance as it will get all the big player coming into it. Plus this way you will overall have less risk.

We are all one crypto revolution family  

Question authority and more effectively, question those who question authority !

I Like that. Most courage is needed to speak up within your own peer pressure group

[matt608]

There are already people doing this right now. Check out Counterparty. It allows people to generate their own user-issued assets on top of the Bitcoin blockchain. There is also Colored Coins (which I haven't heard much from lately) as well as Mastercoin - both of which also use the same Bitcoin blockchain. Then there are also altcoins like NXT, BitShares, Qora, and Peershares (built on top of Peercoin) which also support the same idea but do so in their own unique blockchains.

Did you watch the video?  It's mainly about the BitShares UIAs (user issued assets) but UIAs are as you say available on many platforms now.  I wonder which platform will win the the UIA battle, or is there space for more than one?