[RENAMED] 800 amp, ~300kW, <$0.03/kwh, warehouse for $3,000 a month

[yuriygeorge]

I've been looking for some space for a potential small-scale mining operation, and I came across a property that has a freaking large-scale commercial freezer, like 30 ft by 60 ft by 8 ft, around 13,000 cubic feet. I'm still waiting to get more information on the freezer - how much power draw, walk-in or, wide-open doors like in the super market - and will get back to you.

I read over this archived thread here, but not much information on a large scale freezer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114296.40

Any way to make it work for cooling? Even to cool the place, can I open that baby up and let the cold air through during the summer months? Or leave the miners inside? Or just forget about it, no use whatsoever, just takes up space. Even if it's less effective than A/C, if it can save costs on purchasing new A/C, then it may be worthwhile.

EDIT: Renamed title: from "13000 cubic feet freezer - any use to a potential mining rig?" to ^^^

[Newar]

It probably won't, like a fridge I expect that this freezer equipment is not made to run 24/7. They cool the stuff inside down and then the insulation takes care of it for a good while. That won't work if you have a heater (aka miner) in there producing heat all the time.

[Bananana]

I've been looking for some space for a potential small-scale mining operation, and I came across a property that has a freaking large-scale commercial freezer, like 30 ft by 60 ft by 8 ft, around 13,000 cubic feet. I'm still waiting to get more information on the freezer - how much power draw, walk-in or, wide-open doors like in the super market - and will get back to you.

I read over this archived thread here, but not much information on a large scale freezer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114296.40

Any way to make it work for cooling? Even to cool the place, can I open that baby up and let the cold air through during the summer months? Or leave the miners inside? Or just forget about it, no use whatsoever, just takes up space. Even if it's less effective than A/C, if it can save costs on purchasing new A/C, then it may be worthwhile.

More importantly, if it is a giant freezer, a/c that can make a big space cold. That means it is going to consume a lot of power. Mining profit margin is already so small and if you add that, you might not ROI forever...

Ventilation is cheaper and better..

[goozman96]

This is an interesting idea. Though I don't think it'd work for the same reasons listed by others ^
Kudos for thinking outside of the box though.

[cryptocoiner]

I've been looking for some space for a potential small-scale mining operation, and I came across a property that has a freaking large-scale commercial freezer, like 30 ft by 60 ft by 8 ft, around 13,000 cubic feet. I'm still waiting to get more information on the freezer - how much power draw, walk-in or, wide-open doors like in the super market - and will get back to you.

I read over this archived thread here, but not much information on a large scale freezer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114296.40

Any way to make it work for cooling? Even to cool the place, can I open that baby up and let the cold air through during the summer months? Or leave the miners inside? Or just forget about it, no use whatsoever, just takes up space. Even if it's less effective than A/C, if it can save costs on purchasing new A/C, then it may be worthwhile.

Don't think it can be payed off form mining.

[-ck]

Freezers and refrigerators are designed to keep objects that do not generate heat cool. Mining hardware generates ridiculous amounts of heat and they will burn out motors of coolers not suited to them in no time, no matter how large they are. There are old tales of people sticking mining hardware into their refrigerators here only to find an expensive mess made of both in short time.

[yuriygeorge]

Thanks for the input guys. Pretty much scratching that idea.

This place is going for $3,000 a month and has 800 amps at 208/120v, could possibly negotiate down. Electricity on average would be about $.025-$.029 a killowat. Anyone think there's a small business/mining opportunity here? Anyone think the community would be interested in pitching in for some kind of a "group host"/"group buy" option? Been thinking. Or 800 amps too little since that gives ~290kW. Another option would be to spend $30-80k alone upgrading to 3000 amps (1 MW), but that would be a much bigger project of course, and more capital.

[ASICSPACE]

Thanks for the input guys. Pretty much scratching that idea.

This place is going for $3,000 a month and has 800 amps at 208/120v, could possibly negotiate down. Electricity on average would be about $.025-$.029 a killowat. Anyone think there's a small business/mining opportunity here? Anyone think the community would be interested in pitching in for some kind of a "group host"/"group buy" option? Been thinking. Or 800 amps too little since that gives ~290kW. Another option would be to spend $30-80k alone upgrading to 3000 amps (1 MW), but that would be a much bigger project of course, and more capital.

Where are you located? Are you sure you power isn't coming in at 480V?

[yuriygeorge]

Where are you located? Are you sure you power isn't coming in at 480V?

Hey ASICSPACE, thanks for chiming in. I'm not currently disclosing the location of the warehouse that I'm considering to lease. But yes, I'm sure unfortunately, that it's currently at 208v. One can upgrade to 480v and get more power as well, but again, those costs are heavy $30-80k all inclusive I'd guess conservatively; still, could be worthwhile if I could raise the money. Got around $30k of my own to invest, but probably would need more to be safe.

[ASICSPACE]

Where are you located? Are you sure you power isn't coming in at 480V?

Hey ASICSPACE, thanks for chiming in. I'm not currently disclosing the location of the warehouse that I'm considering to lease. But yes, I'm sure unfortunately, that it's currently at 208v. One can upgrade to 480v and get more power as well, but again, those costs are heavy $30-80k all inclusive I'd guess conservatively; still, could be worthwhile if I could raise the money. Got around $30k of my own to invest, but probably would need more to be safe.

If you're in WA, and need help with capital, build expertise, and operations, let me know.

[yuriygeorge]

That's awesome. Thanks very much. I've looked into Washington State but it looks like all the good spots have been taken up already . I'm keeping an eye out though

I'm having trouble deciding which route to take.

Option A) 800 amps, 3-phase 208v/120, service already installed at $2-3k a month, ~3000-5000 sq ft
Option B) 200 amps, 3-phase 240v/120 (older "delta" "CT" installation) at $2k a month, ~5000-7000 sq ft. Spend anywhere between $30-$80k upgrading to 0.5MW-1MW, possibly more.
Option C) Neither, find a place you can buy, not lease. I should mention there large 7000-8000 sq ft warehouse building available made of concrete foundation, but that's around $250k for the property to buy (not sure about the electric but probably have to upgrade either way as in option B). That's the major leagues though.
*Presumably I can do 2-5 year lease terms.

Option B would require more capital because I'd have to upgrade with the utilities company but it could turn out to be a better long-term solution. But, I also think upgrading to 0.5MW-1MW, would be a bit over my head.

I think, given my experience, I should probably just go with Option A for now, and if I can build up some experience there, consider moving or starting another operation in something like Option B (where I'd have to make bigger expenditures, i.e., upgrading with electrical company). Thoughts? I also pmed "smracer." It seems like, he was doing something similar with the 1200 amp warehouse, but lucky for him, he bought the place, so he has a lot more leeway there.

[Bananana]

That's awesome. Thanks very much. I've looked into Washington State but it looks like all the good spots have been taken up already . I'm keeping an eye out though

I'm having trouble deciding which route to take.

Option A) 800 amps, 3-phase 208v/120, service already installed at $2-3k a month, ~3000-5000 sq ft
Option B) 200 amps, 3-phase 240v/120 (older "delta" "CT" installation) at $2k a month, ~5000-7000 sq ft. Spend anywhere between $30-$80k upgrading to 0.5MW-1MW, possibly more.
Option C) Neither, find a place you can buy, not lease. I should mention there large 7000-8000 sq ft warehouse building available made of concrete foundation, but that's around $250k for the property to buy (not sure about the electric but probably have to upgrade either way as in option B). That's the major leagues though.
*Presumably I can do 2-5 year lease terms.

Option B would require more capital because I'd have to upgrade with the utilities company but it could turn out to be a better long-term solution. But, I also think upgrading to 0.5MW-1MW, would be a bit over my head.

I think, given my experience, I should probably just go with Option A for now, and if I can build up some experience there, consider moving or starting another operation in something like Option B (where I'd have to make bigger expenditures, i.e., upgrading with electrical company). Thoughts? I also pmed "smracer." It seems like, he was doing something similar with the 1200 amp warehouse, but lucky for him, he bought the place, so he has a lot more leeway there.

Option B seems to be a better deal if you are going to mine for really long term, but I prefer option A as I dont want to spend so much money to upgrade and it seems risky as bitcoin halving is coming soon.

[superking123]

Thanks for the input guys. Pretty much scratching that idea.

This place is going for $3,000 a month and has 800 amps at 208/120v, could possibly negotiate down. Electricity on average would be about $.025-$.029 a killowat. Anyone think there's a small business/mining opportunity here? Anyone think the community would be interested in pitching in for some kind of a "group host"/"group buy" option? Been thinking. Or 800 amps too little since that gives ~290kW. Another option would be to spend $30-80k alone upgrading to 3000 amps (1 MW), but that would be a much bigger project of course, and more capital.

Electricty isn't billed by kilowatt. It's billed by killowatt hour

Just a little example:

Remembering from our high school science class that 1A = 1 coulomb/second and 1V = 1 Joule/ Coloumb and a 1W = 1 Joule/ Second

And of course, we remember that a coulomb is 6.241509×10^18 electrons

800A at 120V = 96000W = 96kw

Say you run for 24 hours.

That's:

2304kwh

At $0.029 (are you sure this is correct? My rate is $0.23 (23c per kwh) at home)

That's:

$66/day

Although it's more likely to be $660/day

 

[philipma1957]

Thanks for the input guys. Pretty much scratching that idea.

This place is going for $3,000 a month and has 800 amps at 208/120v, could possibly negotiate down. Electricity on average would be about $.025-$.029 a killowat. Anyone think there's a small business/mining opportunity here? Anyone think the community would be interested in pitching in for some kind of a "group host"/"group buy" option? Been thinking. Or 800 amps too little since that gives ~290kW. Another option would be to spend $30-80k alone upgrading to 3000 amps (1 MW), but that would be a much bigger project of course, and more capital.

here is your math 3000 rent  a month.  and lets say 800 x 208 x.75 =about 125kwatts safely   125 x 24 = 3000 x .029 = 87 dollar in power each day or 2610 this means 3000 + 2610 = 5610 a month for the real cost of ops so if you charge 6 cents a kwatt to me to mine you break out even.

So you need to charge me 8-9 cents to hopefully turn a profit.   lets say you do 9 cents rent it all to miner you get 8100 -5610 =  2500   

not counting internet .
 not counting cooling
 not count labor

so 9 cents is most likely not going to work for you try 10 cents  that comes to 9000 -5610 = 3500 a month   this may be okay on your end but on the miners end 10 cents is high. 

I am in my house I pay 13 cents but for the next 3-4 months it is reduced to 10 cents due to heat savings.  So I have no need to use a 10 cent  hoster until apr-may.

Also I am in USA, NJ I have to ship my 8 sp20's to you which will cost money to ship and money lost to shipping + setup time.   So it is a tough sell to me.

Now if it was May  and  I do not need the heat and my rates are turning to 16 cents for the summer on June 1. sending you  8 miners may make sense.

I think your timing is off a bit to start your business. A lot of people are like me and they will mine in their house for the next 100 days.

[yuriygeorge]

It's 3-phase, so you have to multiply by the sqrt(3) or ~ 1.73, and at 208v, so we're looking at about 800A * 208 * 1.73 * .8 = 230kvA. So you run for 24 hours, ~5,520 kwh. It's ~2.5 cents approximately per hour. No joke - $0.025 per kwh. Per day, that's about $140 per day in electricity costs, or $4,200.  So roughly, $3000 for rent, let's assume I negotiated it down to $2700, so $2700 + $4200 = $6,900 monthly cost for 165k kwh. $6,900/165k = $0.0418 per kwh, not 6 cents a kwh.

[philipma1957]

It's 3-phase, so you have to multiply by the sqrt(3) or ~ 1.73, and at 208v, so we're looking at about 800A * 208 * 1.73 * .8 = 230kvA. So you run for 24 hours, ~5,520 kwh. It's ~2.5 cents approximately per hour. No joke - $0.025 per kwh. Per day, that's about $140 per day in electricity costs, or $4,200.  So roughly, $3000 for rent, let's assume I negotiated it down to $2700, so $2700 + $4200 = $6,900 monthly cost for 165k kwh. $6,900/165k = $0.0418 per kwh, not 6 cents a kwh.

okay then you could rent/host at 8 cents a kwatt and turn a profit.

I think at 8 cents  you could find renters/hostees

So do you want some advice don't do the improvements go base setup.

Tell us the location in general.
 Ie USA, New York State.
 and how will you insure safety of our gear.

Lets say you are in New York State and  I am in New Jersey .  I say I will send my  8 sp20's to you  with power supplies. Since we are 1 state apart I will drive them to you.  Or ups them really does not matter.  But I know the location of the warehouse basically I would not sent 4k in miners and 1.5k in psu's to you unless I know the location.
the upside is I know the miners location.  the downside is 10 or 20 guys like me do this.  we all know the location.  so breaking entering and grabbing gear is a temptation to all of us that shipped the out gear to you. 

sometimes the details suck, but can you keep it safe from theft?  I am just tossing out stuff to consider on your end. Not trying to be an A-hole.  but 100 sp20s set to use 800 watts and 200 s-5's set to use 600 watts is a lot of temptation.  and that list is not quite you max  it is about 200k of power.

the other 30 k need some for cooling as 200k in power is almost 800k btu's.

[yuriygeorge]

Yeah, I'm kinda leaning against option B. I think Option A is already wired, ready to go. Already has like 5 panels. It has that large freezer taking up space, so leaving only 1500-2000 sq ft, but that should be plenty. I contacted them to see if it's still available, hopefully it is. If it is, I'm going to offer them 6 months up front for $15,000 (i.e., $2,500 per month), with option to renew for 3 years at $3k a mo. If they accept, I'd be starting next week. But, let's not jump the gun here. I'll be able to answer more questions if I can sign the deal at least. My company is registered in the state of New York. Again, don't want to jump the gun, if I can sign the deal, I'll be opening up to more questions.

[HorseRider]

If you have very cheap electricity power rate, mining is still quite profitable right now. You can buy older generation of mining rig to save the investment and leverage the cheap electricity cost.

[Jamphone]

On HorseRider's point:

Old equipment won't ROI. Costs too much to ship it. I'm presuming 2.5 cents/kwh is somewhere extremely remote, so shipping will be even more expensive.

[Dalkore]

The space could work but I would not run the refrigeration unit, this will raise the humidity in the air and your electronics will not like that.   Using it though as a quality insulated room and getting some other from of cooling piped in could work well.   It is surprising that no 480v volt is in the building with all those compressors and motors. 


-D