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Author Topic: Need a loan despite negative trust status  (Read 2114 times)
printshop
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December 28, 2014, 08:38:09 AM
 #1

Hi! Unfortunately for me, vod and redsn0w have decided to negrate me without actually reading my OP or discussing with me what the problem is. As I have been able to figure our, despite me (as a newbie) following the Escrow OP, and offered LTC as collateral, they have accused me of trust buying.

I offered to discuss the issue with vod beforehand, and I made several changes to my op as discussed with John. K, Quickseller, and Vod too. But after 6-12 hours, without discussing it with me or reading my changes or posts, Vod zapped me with negative feedback anyway. What is more ridiculous is what he wrote, stating that I didn't need the loan (despite clearly pointing out what I was going to use it for).

About 12 hrs later, redsn0w -- true to form -- negrated me "because someone else did". The problem with redsn0w is not just that he didn't read the reference or anything I wrote, it's that he was extremely rude to me in PM and in public posts. He essentially mocked me as a newbie, and I find that personally offensive.

Since then I have been denied for loan after loan, and confirmed each time it was due to the unjustified negative feedback I have received. I was actually surprised that the loanmakers did not actually check the references, or that it was zero risked feedback, or investigate the many +risked positive feedback I have.

So it is with concern and willingness to meet criteria that I ask for a small loan of 0.1 BTC or less, to invest in hashie.co. I have collateral of a hashie.co account worth over 0.5 BTC, and I am a major asset issuer on the NXT AE platform. I also run a federally incorporated company in Canada. I'm just trying to get started here. Please help me teach Vod and redsn0w that false, unrisked negative feedback is not acceptable. I want to believe in the trust system here, I really do, but give me a way out other than acting like a scammer and starting a new account. That's crazy, I won't do it. Please help.
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December 28, 2014, 09:20:05 AM
 #2

Their accusations make sense.

Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.

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December 28, 2014, 09:26:29 AM
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Their accusations make sense.

Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.


No, their accusations don't make sense. The Escrow FAQ, stickied at the top of this forum, specifically advises newbies that the best form of collateral is a stable altcoin like LTC. It also explains that it is NOT trust buying to offer such collateral. The holder may wish to speculate on the value of the altcoin vs. BTC.

Look, if what I am doing is wrong, then it's the fault of the Escrow FAQ. I'm new here, sure, but I actually read the FAQ and I am trying to work with ppl here to do what's right. I have faith that someone will recognize that and give me a chance.

What I want to do is pretty clear, I want to invest in hashie.co. I am willing to pay 3.5% per week. What's wrong with that?
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December 28, 2014, 11:22:47 AM
 #4

As I remember, you were offering BTC as collateral which made no sense. You also mentioned leaving +ve trust is a must. From those conditions it seemed like you were buying trust.

EDIT: Found it

I am willing to take your loan, with 100% collateral in pure BTC. If you want to use escrow it must be at your expense, otherwise you can hold the BTC yourself (lender's privilege).

This part has been changed now

Once the interest is paid to you at the end of the loan period (within 48 hrs), you must give positive feedback (with a reference) for the full amount of the loan. Failure to give positive feedback will result in you breaking the terms of our contract and I will get to keep the money you lent me. If this is not possible for some reason you agree to receive a scammer tag until I am paid or positive feedback is left on my account for this loan.

You can see why lenders here would be concerned. Still, the -ve trust serves only as a warning, and lenders are free to process your request.
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December 28, 2014, 12:41:18 PM
 #5

Provide altcoin collateral and don't demand positive trust for repayment and I will loan you and not look at your trust or ask for reasons

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December 28, 2014, 12:49:43 PM
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Once the interest is paid to you at the end of the loan period (within 48 hrs), you must give positive feedback (with a reference) for the full amount of the loan. Failure to give positive feedback will result in you breaking the terms of our contract and I will get to keep the money you lent me. If this is not possible for some reason you agree to receive a scammer tag until I am paid or positive feedback is left on my account for this loan.

You can see why lenders here would be concerned. Still, the -ve trust serves only as a warning, and lenders are free to process your request.

You're misquoting me, those terms were changed prior to my receiving negative feedback.

Still you are right it's just a warning, and I am currently negotiating escrow for a loan with lihuajkl. I'll use the next post for a reference.
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December 28, 2014, 12:53:05 PM
 #7

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) on or before Jan 2nd.
Collateral: hashie.co account "kns"
Escrow: looking for escrow
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

edit: Just checked and hashie.co is "gone". Oh for god's sake. I'll need to find alternate collateral now......
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December 28, 2014, 02:54:26 PM
 #8

I thought that you were a major NXT asset exchange dealer to the tune of needing a 50 BTC loan to purchase additional LTCgear shares for your asset. My understanding of this is from this thread.

Additionally I was under the impression that you had in excess of 2.5 BTC worth of either bitcoin or NXT according to this thread.

Your loan requests appear to be getting ever smaller each time, probably changing your target audience. Nevertheless I cannot see any logical reason why you would want/need such a small loan using such a collateral after you have made either of the above requests.

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December 28, 2014, 03:32:58 PM
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I'm sorry  if I was rude, it wasn't my intention. However good luck with your loan research , have a great day.
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December 28, 2014, 03:43:00 PM
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How much time, you will take to repay?

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December 28, 2014, 04:10:13 PM
 #11

PS: Just posting to confirm OP has asked me to act as escrow for his transaction to hold the collateral via PM.

My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong
Escrow service is available on a case by case basis! (PM Me to verify I'm the escrow!)

printshop
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December 28, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
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I thought that you were a major NXT asset exchange dealer to the tune of needing a 50 BTC loan to purchase additional LTCgear shares for your asset. My understanding of this is from this thread.

Additionally I was under the impression that you had in excess of 2.5 BTC worth of either bitcoin or NXT according to this thread.

Your loan requests appear to be getting ever smaller each time, probably changing your target audience. Nevertheless I cannot see any logical reason why you would want/need such a small loan using such a collateral after you have made either of the above requests.

Okay?
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December 28, 2014, 04:57:36 PM
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How much time, you will take to repay?

One week. I wanted the loan to invest in Hashie.co for a week. However that plan is now on hold, as hashie.co has been hacked (latest news) literally, just last night.

For the record -- the LTCgear.com referral program isn't active anymore either (and has been experiencing technical difficulties). So the need and reason to borrow 50+ BTC to invest in LTCgear.com has passed. That's why I was looking for a smaller loan.

PS: Just posting to confirm OP has asked me to act as escrow for his transaction to hold the collateral via PM.

Thanks John. I am still looking for a small loan to invest in various places, the question now is what collateral I can come up with. I have $900 worth of USDbitfinx (a NXT AE asset) but it may be difficult to find someone to take that as collateral. We shall see.
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December 28, 2014, 05:28:03 PM
 #14

Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.

Op totally ignored this question.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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December 28, 2014, 05:39:37 PM
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I thought that you were a major NXT asset exchange dealer to the tune of needing a 50 BTC loan to purchase additional LTCgear shares for your asset. My understanding of this is from this thread.

Additionally I was under the impression that you had in excess of 2.5 BTC worth of either bitcoin or NXT according to this thread.

Your loan requests appear to be getting ever smaller each time, probably changing your target audience. Nevertheless I cannot see any logical reason why you would want/need such a small loan using such a collateral after you have made either of the above requests.

Okay?
So you have explained why you no longer need the 50 BTC loan (although you were very scant on details, like what happened to investor's money), but there is still no explanation as to why you are asking for such a small loan when when only a short time ago you claimed to have more then 2 BTC (worth of alts) in your control.

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December 28, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
 #16

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) on or before Jan 2nd.
Collateral: hashie.co account "kns"
Escrow: looking for escrow
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

edit: Just checked and hashie.co is "gone". Oh for god's sake. I'll need to find alternate collateral now......


Think that in all case Redsnow and Vod did the right thing. Why do you want to ask with insistence a loan without offering a valid collateral? I think that I'll leave you another negative feedback because I can not trust you.
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December 28, 2014, 08:16:18 PM
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Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.

Op totally ignored this question.

For the fourth time -- and this is why I negrated you -- just because I have capital in LTC that I could sell to get BTC does not mean I have no reason to ask for a loan. Read the Escrow FAQ located at the top of this subforum. You clearly are not aware of the rules and procedures for escrow and collateral. You should not leave feedback here criticizing other users for attempting to follow the rules. You really should apologize for your mistake.

As in 2013, it seems the trend has continued - a massive influx of users, both new and old, has continued to hit the Lending section with more and more loans being asked for daily. Due to scams a "rule" has been created which, while not currently "enforced", is basically a minimum requirement to get a loan. Note that this isn't an official forum rule, it's just a rule that most lenders will follow.

The rule of "No Collateral, No Loan" means that in order to get a loan you must give collateral that is equal, or preferably higher to the amount you are being loaned.

If you completely ignore this sticky and make a loan request with no collateral, without having massive trust on the forum, the chances of you getting negative trusted feedback and therefore having a Trade with Extreme Caution tag is almost 100%.

In general the amount lenders will be looking for is collateral equal to 110%-120% of the amount you are being loaned. Why is this? Well, first, they want to discourage you from running off with the funds. Collateral also needs to be something that can easily be sold, which brings me to my second point - your $500 worth of ink isn't going to cut it as collateral. Normally lenders will want things such as Altcoins or precious metals, although things that can be sent electronically are preferred.

A common question is why don't I just sell my collateral? Well the reasoning behind collateral is that you think it's going to appreciate in price or do not want to sell it, encouraging you to pay back the loan to have your collateral returned.

However, you must also watch out for collateral scammers. These guys take your collateral and run, without sending you the loan. Avoid this by using escrow.

This applies to lenders too - for your own sake, please follow this rule, both for your wallet and to discourage scammers from coming here.

The below post is also part of this [EDU].

Let me point that out more clearly since you have a reading problem. "A common question is why don't I just sell my collateral? Well the reasoning behind collateral is that you think it's going to appreciate in price or do not want to sell it, encouraging you to pay back the loan to have your collateral returned."

The purpose for the loan was announced as investment in mining shares (hashie.co for example). Please just go away Vod, I am not really interested in dealing with you anymore.
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December 28, 2014, 08:24:01 PM
 #18

So you have explained why you no longer need the 50 BTC loan (although you were very scant on details, like what happened to investor's money), but there is still no explanation as to why you are asking for such a small loan when when only a short time ago you claimed to have more then 2 BTC (worth of alts) in your control.

Yes there is an explanation, it was posted above. (Hint: look at the collateral I was offering and the reason I wanted the loan). In short, since I was able to offer a hashie.co account as collateral, and for investment on hashie.co, I was looking for a loan which my collateral would be able to cover. I only had about 0.5 BTC in the account so I was looking for a smaller loan.

Unfortunately Things are pretty screwy right now with ltcgear and hashie so I am out a significant amount of collateral. Right now I am looking at moving about 3BTC worth of USDbitfinx into LTC in preparation for a loan request from Twinwinerd. That would satisfy his minimum loan requirement. But that's kind of between me and him right?

Or would you accept $900 USDbitfinx as collateral for a loan of say, 2.5 BTC?
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December 29, 2014, 03:16:44 PM
 #19

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) on or before Jan 2nd.
Collateral: hashie.co account "kns"
Escrow: looking for escrow
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

edit: Just checked and hashie.co is "gone". Oh for god's sake. I'll need to find alternate collateral now......


Think that in all case Redsnow and Vod did the right thing. Why do you want to ask with insistence a loan without offering a valid collateral? I think that I'll leave you another negative feedback because I can not trust you.

Bad manners -- check the post under yours. Look no offense, but not only do you not know the rules of this forum (see the quoted sticky) you lied on your feedback to me. You did not risk 0.1 BTC. You should remove your feedback and apologize.
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December 29, 2014, 03:20:54 PM
 #20

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) for 7 days (on or before Jan 6th).
Collateral: 50 USDbitfnx on NXT AE.
Escrow: Satoshi (see below)
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

Quote from: Satoshi of nxtforum.org
no problem man

you can send to my personal account

NXT-5FJE-ZUVA-4YQM-B538L

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:35 PM, printshop@kongzi.ca wrote:

    Hi, would you mind acting as escrow for a small deal for me? I need someone to hold 50 USDbitfnx for a week or so.

    Thx, chat soon~

The escrow funds have been sent: please see TXID 14402036590546183063.
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