Need a loan despite negative trust status

[printshop]

Hi! Unfortunately for me, vod and redsn0w have decided to negrate me without actually reading my OP or discussing with me what the problem is. As I have been able to figure our, despite me (as a newbie) following the Escrow OP, and offered LTC as collateral, they have accused me of trust buying.

I offered to discuss the issue with vod beforehand, and I made several changes to my op as discussed with John. K, Quickseller, and Vod too. But after 6-12 hours, without discussing it with me or reading my changes or posts, Vod zapped me with negative feedback anyway. What is more ridiculous is what he wrote, stating that I didn't need the loan (despite clearly pointing out what I was going to use it for).

About 12 hrs later, redsn0w -- true to form -- negrated me "because someone else did". The problem with redsn0w is not just that he didn't read the reference or anything I wrote, it's that he was extremely rude to me in PM and in public posts. He essentially mocked me as a newbie, and I find that personally offensive.

Since then I have been denied for loan after loan, and confirmed each time it was due to the unjustified negative feedback I have received. I was actually surprised that the loanmakers did not actually check the references, or that it was zero risked feedback, or investigate the many +risked positive feedback I have.

So it is with concern and willingness to meet criteria that I ask for a small loan of 0.1 BTC or less, to invest in hashie.co. I have collateral of a hashie.co account worth over 0.5 BTC, and I am a major asset issuer on the NXT AE platform. I also run a federally incorporated company in Canada. I'm just trying to get started here. Please help me teach Vod and redsn0w that false, unrisked negative feedback is not acceptable. I want to believe in the trust system here, I really do, but give me a way out other than acting like a scammer and starting a new account. That's crazy, I won't do it. Please help.

[1715378734]

1715378734

[1715378734]

1715378734

[1715378734]

1715378734

[1715378734]

1715378734

[1715378734]

1715378734

[jambola2]

Their accusations make sense.

Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.

[printshop]

Their accusations make sense.

Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.

No, their accusations don't make sense. The Escrow FAQ, stickied at the top of this forum, specifically advises newbies that the best form of collateral is a stable altcoin like LTC. It also explains that it is NOT trust buying to offer such collateral. The holder may wish to speculate on the value of the altcoin vs. BTC.

Look, if what I am doing is wrong, then it's the fault of the Escrow FAQ. I'm new here, sure, but I actually read the FAQ and I am trying to work with ppl here to do what's right. I have faith that someone will recognize that and give me a chance.

What I want to do is pretty clear, I want to invest in hashie.co. I am willing to pay 3.5% per week. What's wrong with that?

[Magic8Ball]

As I remember, you were offering BTC as collateral which made no sense. You also mentioned leaving +ve trust is a must. From those conditions it seemed like you were buying trust.

EDIT: Found it

I am willing to take your loan, with 100% collateral in pure BTC. If you want to use escrow it must be at your expense, otherwise you can hold the BTC yourself (lender's privilege).

This part has been changed now

Once the interest is paid to you at the end of the loan period (within 48 hrs), you must give positive feedback (with a reference) for the full amount of the loan. Failure to give positive feedback will result in you breaking the terms of our contract and I will get to keep the money you lent me. If this is not possible for some reason you agree to receive a scammer tag until I am paid or positive feedback is left on my account for this loan.

You can see why lenders here would be concerned. Still, the -ve trust serves only as a warning, and lenders are free to process your request.

[jaberwock]

Provide altcoin collateral and don't demand positive trust for repayment and I will loan you and not look at your trust or ask for reasons

[printshop]

Once the interest is paid to you at the end of the loan period (within 48 hrs), you must give positive feedback (with a reference) for the full amount of the loan. Failure to give positive feedback will result in you breaking the terms of our contract and I will get to keep the money you lent me. If this is not possible for some reason you agree to receive a scammer tag until I am paid or positive feedback is left on my account for this loan.

You can see why lenders here would be concerned. Still, the -ve trust serves only as a warning, and lenders are free to process your request.

You're misquoting me, those terms were changed prior to my receiving negative feedback.

Still you are right it's just a warning, and I am currently negotiating escrow for a loan with lihuajkl. I'll use the next post for a reference.

[printshop]

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) on or before Jan 2nd.
Collateral: hashie.co account "kns"
Escrow: looking for escrow
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

edit: Just checked and hashie.co is "gone". Oh for god's sake. I'll need to find alternate collateral now......

[Quickseller]

I thought that you were a major NXT asset exchange dealer to the tune of needing a 50 BTC loan to purchase additional LTCgear shares for your asset. My understanding of this is from this thread.

Additionally I was under the impression that you had in excess of 2.5 BTC worth of either bitcoin or NXT according to this thread.

Your loan requests appear to be getting ever smaller each time, probably changing your target audience. Nevertheless I cannot see any logical reason why you would want/need such a small loan using such a collateral after you have made either of the above requests.

[redsn0w]

I'm sorry  if I was rude, it wasn't my intention. However good luck with your loan research , have a great day.

[Savi]

How much time, you will take to repay?

[John (John K.)]

PS: Just posting to confirm OP has asked me to act as escrow for his transaction to hold the collateral via PM.

[printshop]

I thought that you were a major NXT asset exchange dealer to the tune of needing a 50 BTC loan to purchase additional LTCgear shares for your asset. My understanding of this is from this thread.

Additionally I was under the impression that you had in excess of 2.5 BTC worth of either bitcoin or NXT according to this thread.

Your loan requests appear to be getting ever smaller each time, probably changing your target audience. Nevertheless I cannot see any logical reason why you would want/need such a small loan using such a collateral after you have made either of the above requests.

Okay?

[printshop]

How much time, you will take to repay?

One week. I wanted the loan to invest in Hashie.co for a week. However that plan is now on hold, as hashie.co has been hacked (latest news) literally, just last night.

For the record -- the LTCgear.com referral program isn't active anymore either (and has been experiencing technical difficulties). So the need and reason to borrow 50+ BTC to invest in LTCgear.com has passed. That's why I was looking for a smaller loan.

PS: Just posting to confirm OP has asked me to act as escrow for his transaction to hold the collateral via PM.

Thanks John. I am still looking for a small loan to invest in various places, the question now is what collateral I can come up with. I have $900 worth of USDbitfinx (a NXT AE asset) but it may be difficult to find someone to take that as collateral. We shall see.

[Vod]

Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.

Op totally ignored this question.

[Quickseller]

I thought that you were a major NXT asset exchange dealer to the tune of needing a 50 BTC loan to purchase additional LTCgear shares for your asset. My understanding of this is from this thread.

Additionally I was under the impression that you had in excess of 2.5 BTC worth of either bitcoin or NXT according to this thread.

Your loan requests appear to be getting ever smaller each time, probably changing your target audience. Nevertheless I cannot see any logical reason why you would want/need such a small loan using such a collateral after you have made either of the above requests.

Okay?

So you have explained why you no longer need the 50 BTC loan (although you were very scant on details, like what happened to investor's money), but there is still no explanation as to why you are asking for such a small loan when when only a short time ago you claimed to have more then 2 BTC (worth of alts) in your control.

[Gianluca95]

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) on or before Jan 2nd.
Collateral: hashie.co account "kns"
Escrow: looking for escrow
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

edit: Just checked and hashie.co is "gone". Oh for god's sake. I'll need to find alternate collateral now......

Think that in all case Redsnow and Vod did the right thing. Why do you want to ask with insistence a loan without offering a valid collateral? I think that I'll leave you another negative feedback because I can not trust you.

[printshop]

Why do you need this loan if you can already afford whatever you want to do ? Trust-building is highly frowned upon.

Op totally ignored this question.

For the fourth time -- and this is why I negrated you -- just because I have capital in LTC that I could sell to get BTC does not mean I have no reason to ask for a loan. Read the Escrow FAQ located at the top of this subforum. You clearly are not aware of the rules and procedures for escrow and collateral. You should not leave feedback here criticizing other users for attempting to follow the rules. You really should apologize for your mistake.

As in 2013, it seems the trend has continued - a massive influx of users, both new and old, has continued to hit the Lending section with more and more loans being asked for daily. Due to scams a "rule" has been created which, while not currently "enforced", is basically a minimum requirement to get a loan. Note that this isn't an official forum rule, it's just a rule that most lenders will follow.

The rule of "No Collateral, No Loan" means that in order to get a loan you must give collateral that is equal, or preferably higher to the amount you are being loaned.

If you completely ignore this sticky and make a loan request with no collateral, without having massive trust on the forum, the chances of you getting negative trusted feedback and therefore having a Trade with Extreme Caution tag is almost 100%.

In general the amount lenders will be looking for is collateral equal to 110%-120% of the amount you are being loaned. Why is this? Well, first, they want to discourage you from running off with the funds. Collateral also needs to be something that can easily be sold, which brings me to my second point - your $500 worth of ink isn't going to cut it as collateral. Normally lenders will want things such as Altcoins or precious metals, although things that can be sent electronically are preferred.

A common question is why don't I just sell my collateral? Well the reasoning behind collateral is that you think it's going to appreciate in price or do not want to sell it, encouraging you to pay back the loan to have your collateral returned.

However, you must also watch out for collateral scammers. These guys take your collateral and run, without sending you the loan. Avoid this by using escrow.

This applies to lenders too - for your own sake, please follow this rule, both for your wallet and to discourage scammers from coming here.

The below post is also part of this [EDU].

Let me point that out more clearly since you have a reading problem. "A common question is why don't I just sell my collateral? Well the reasoning behind collateral is that you think it's going to appreciate in price or do not want to sell it, encouraging you to pay back the loan to have your collateral returned."

The purpose for the loan was announced as investment in mining shares (hashie.co for example). Please just go away Vod, I am not really interested in dealing with you anymore.

[printshop]

So you have explained why you no longer need the 50 BTC loan (although you were very scant on details, like what happened to investor's money), but there is still no explanation as to why you are asking for such a small loan when when only a short time ago you claimed to have more then 2 BTC (worth of alts) in your control.

Yes there is an explanation, it was posted above. (Hint: look at the collateral I was offering and the reason I wanted the loan). In short, since I was able to offer a hashie.co account as collateral, and for investment on hashie.co, I was looking for a loan which my collateral would be able to cover. I only had about 0.5 BTC in the account so I was looking for a smaller loan.

Unfortunately Things are pretty screwy right now with ltcgear and hashie so I am out a significant amount of collateral. Right now I am looking at moving about 3BTC worth of USDbitfinx into LTC in preparation for a loan request from Twinwinerd. That would satisfy his minimum loan requirement. But that's kind of between me and him right?

Or would you accept $900 USDbitfinx as collateral for a loan of say, 2.5 BTC?

[printshop]

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) on or before Jan 2nd.
Collateral: hashie.co account "kns"
Escrow: looking for escrow
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

edit: Just checked and hashie.co is "gone". Oh for god's sake. I'll need to find alternate collateral now......

Think that in all case Redsnow and Vod did the right thing. Why do you want to ask with insistence a loan without offering a valid collateral? I think that I'll leave you another negative feedback because I can not trust you.

Bad manners -- check the post under yours. Look no offense, but not only do you not know the rules of this forum (see the quoted sticky) you lied on your feedback to me. You did not risk 0.1 BTC. You should remove your feedback and apologize.

[printshop]

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) for 7 days (on or before Jan 6th).
Collateral: 50 USDbitfnx on NXT AE.
Escrow: Satoshi (see below)
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

no problem man

you can send to my personal account

NXT-5FJE-ZUVA-4YQM-B538L

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:35 PM, printshop@kongzi.ca wrote:

    Hi, would you mind acting as escrow for a small deal for me? I need someone to hold 50 USDbitfnx for a week or so.

    Thx, chat soon~

The escrow funds have been sent: please see TXID 14402036590546183063.

[Vod]

Bad manners -- check the post under yours. Look no offense, but not only do you not know the rules of this forum (see the quoted sticky) you lied on your feedback to me. You did not risk 0.1 BTC. You should remove your feedback and apologize.

You did the same to me.  You lied and said you risked 1.0 BTC.  You should remove your feedback and apologize.

Hypocrite.   

[printshop]

Bad manners -- check the post under yours. Look no offense, but not only do you not know the rules of this forum (see the quoted sticky) you lied on your feedback to me. You did not risk 0.1 BTC. You should remove your feedback and apologize.

You did the same to me.  You lied and said you risked 1.0 BTC.  You should remove your feedback and apologize.

Hypocrite.  

No, I have confirmed with multiple lenders that I have been denied loans specifically because of the negative feedback you gave me. I have suffered financial damages as a result. Now, you can remove the false negative feedback you left me or not, but I am not interested in talking to you about it anymore. Talking to you doesn't work, so for the second time please leave me alone.

[Vod]

Bad manners -- check the post under yours. Look no offense, but not only do you not know the rules of this forum (see the quoted sticky) you lied on your feedback to me. You did not risk 0.1 BTC. You should remove your feedback and apologize.

You did the same to me.  You lied and said you risked 1.0 BTC.  You should remove your feedback and apologize.

Hypocrite.  

No, I have confirmed with multiple lenders that I have been denied loans specifically because of the negative feedback you gave me. I have suffered financial damages as a result. Now, you can remove the false negative feedback you left me or not, but I am not interested in talking to you about it anymore. Talking to you doesn't work, so for the second time please leave me alone.

But you didn't risk 1.0 BTC with me, did you?  You are a liar and a hypocrite.

[printshop]

Bad manners -- check the post under yours. Look no offense, but not only do you not know the rules of this forum (see the quoted sticky) you lied on your feedback to me. You did not risk 0.1 BTC. You should remove your feedback and apologize.

You did the same to me.  You lied and said you risked 1.0 BTC.  You should remove your feedback and apologize.

Hypocrite.  

No, I have confirmed with multiple lenders that I have been denied loans specifically because of the negative feedback you gave me. I have suffered financial damages as a result. Now, you can remove the false negative feedback you left me or not, but I am not interested in talking to you about it anymore. Talking to you doesn't work, so for the second time please leave me alone.

But you didn't risk 1.0 BTC with me, did you?  You are a liar and a hypocrite.

You caused me financial damages by lying about me. It is right and proper that you are left feedback which reflects this fact.

If you remove your lies, and I can subsequently get a normal loan with normal terms, then I will have no cause to state you have caused me financial damages. It's quite clear I am not trust buying. You screwed up, get over it.

[jonald_fyookball]

It's quite clear I am not trust buying.

I took a look at the referenced threads where you were accused of trust buying and
while you didn't outright say "I want to pay for positive trust", the loan request was
worded in a way that was making positive trust a condition of the deal, which in
my opinion equates to trust buying.

 

Maybe if you apologize and admit the mistake the trust rating can be eventually
adjusted.

[Vod]

You caused me financial damages by lying about me.

If you remove your lies, and I can subsequently get a normal loan with normal terms, then I will have no cause to state you have caused me financial damages.

I don't understand how your negative trust is causing you financial damages.  I didn't lie and I clearly stated the reason I left the negative trust - people can read it and still deal with you.  It's not like you scammed someone.

Are you maybe still demanding that all transactions come with positive trust?  That might be what is turning people off.

My involvement in this thread was to point out that you are complaining Gianluca95 put an invalid amount of risked BTC in the trust, when you did the exact same thing to me.  That field is not for "financial damages", it is for "amount of BTC risked".  You didn't risk anything with me.  Asking others not do something that you do yourself makes you a hypocrite.  

In any case, calling me a liar is not going to make me rush and remove feedback I see as correct.

Have a happy new year sir.

[printshop]

It's quite clear I am not trust buying.

I took a look at the referenced threads where you were accused of trust buying and
while you didn't outright say "I want to pay for positive trust", the loan request was
worded in a way that was making positive trust a condition of the deal, which in
my opinion equates to trust buying.

 

Maybe if you apologize and admit the mistake the trust rating can be eventually
adjusted.

Yes, I already did what you suggest. I said specifically I was not trust buying, that isn't what I was doing, and I changed the OP to remove the restriction on having to leave trust. Although frankly, if you don't leave trust you're not doing your job, whatever. I made it quite clear that was not my intention.

Now we come to Vod. He has the gall to use the word "still" as in "you are still doing it" as if he had never read anything I wrote.

Okay then let's take a step back and you can tell me what proper terms for a loan are, and I can learn from you, and become a more productive member of this community.

Your terms for your loan are fine as they are.  It's you requiring people leave you positive trust that is the issue.

Consider the term removed. ... I will edit the [original] post later.

and

The conditions of the loan are simple. First we will come to an agreement over the terms of your loan to me. Then we will set a date for full repayment plus interest. Once the interest is paid to you at the end of the loan period (within 48 hrs), please leave positive feedback (with a reference) as a courtesy to me.

Vod can say and do what he wants. I'm done dealing with his lies.

[lihuajkl]

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) for 7 days (on or before Jan 6th).
Collateral: 50 USDbitfnx on NXT AE.
Escrow: Satoshi (see below)
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

no problem man

you can send to my personal account

NXT-5FJE-ZUVA-4YQM-B538L

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:35 PM, printshop@kongzi.ca wrote:

    Hi, would you mind acting as escrow for a small deal for me? I need someone to hold 50 USDbitfnx for a week or so.

    Thx, chat soon~

The escrow funds have been sent: please see TXID 14402036590546183063.

I'm currently negotiating a loan with lihuajkl and will use this post for a reference.

Expected loan amount: 0.1
Repayment Terms: 0.105 (i.e. 5%) for 7 days (on or before Jan 6th).
Collateral: 50 USDbitfnx on NXT AE.
Escrow: Satoshi (see below)
Deposit Address: 1GbRySrYBF6wVyJuqDCX3bhFrgJzevZ9wr
Repayment Address: to be announced

no problem man

you can send to my personal account

NXT-5FJE-ZUVA-4YQM-B538L

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 8:35 PM, printshop@kongzi.ca wrote:

    Hi, would you mind acting as escrow for a small deal for me? I need someone to hold 50 USDbitfnx for a week or so.

    Thx, chat soon~

The escrow funds have been sent: please see TXID 14402036590546183063.

https://blockchain.info/zh-cn/tx/221431ee3580f2f86068f41a733e07c79b0658996bbf68585dafb2cea1d2393b
Repay address:1PvdjK1qcmhZyRkwgmUtsm9vYMiQ3XEMf7

[printshop]

The escrow funds have been sent: please see TXID 14402036590546183063.

https://blockchain.info/zh-cn/tx/221431ee3580f2f86068f41a733e07c79b0658996bbf68585dafb2cea1d2393b
Repay address:1PvdjK1qcmhZyRkwgmUtsm9vYMiQ3XEMf7

This debt has now been paid.

https://blockchain.info/tx/3cd9795d2d33111a2b4ece93e4dfa1a3440994aa53cebd9a90b26f458fde6744

Please use this post for a reference if you leave risked BTC feedback. Thanks for giving me a chance when I was down, happy new year

[cassius69]

he borrowed money to buy 'hashie.co' which is out of business. this guy is a well-known asset scammer so beware (kongzi.ca)

[takagari]

he borrowed money to buy 'hashie.co' which is out of business. this guy is a well-known asset scammer so beware (kongzi.ca)

Don't state well known without proof.
honestly that makes me trust the poster less than whom they are accusing.

[cassius69]

he borrowed money to buy 'hashie.co' which is out of business. this guy is a well-known asset scammer so beware (kongzi.ca)

Don't state well known without proof.
honestly that makes me trust the poster less than whom they are accusing.

well known on nxtforum

he has issued 4 failed assets in a few months...

https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)-kongzi-print-shop

[Quickseller]

he borrowed money to buy 'hashie.co' which is out of business. this guy is a well-known asset scammer so beware (kongzi.ca)

Don't state well known without proof.
honestly that makes me trust the poster less than whom they are accusing.

well known on nxtforum

he has issued 4 failed assets in a few months...

https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)-kongzi-print-shop

i am not sure how their trust system works but it looks like his trust (karma?) is +80/-133 I assume having a bigger negative number then positive number is similar to having negative trust although I may be wrong on this

[ThinkI]

.
.
.

well known on nxtforum

he has issued 4 failed assets in a few months...

https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)-kongzi-print-shop

i am not sure how their trust system works but it looks like his trust (karma?) is +80/-133 I assume having a bigger negative number then positive number is similar to having negative trust although I may be wrong on this

Yes printshop has 4 assets, however, the 'failed' comment is not accurate yet.

3 assets are mining related and dependent on LTCgear.

Bearmining is a pass-through for LTCgear and has failed if LTCgear has failed, this is yet to be decided.

SafeHash has a guaranteed value in case of failure backed by USDbitfx and similar assets.  This was also dependent on LTCgear and printshop has been buying them back if people want to sell. There was one large (company?) investor in this and they may have wanted to exit their position.
See https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=6474.msg144131#msg144131 for buy back message.

dailytrade also dependent on LTCgear was released last month and printshop has been buying them back if people wanted to sell.
These 3 have only failed if LTCgear has failed, the dependencies were clear to buyers and in the case of the pass-through asset printshop was extremely clear about the risks.

The fourth asset KNS has not failed, in any sense. It has, however, suffered a set back due to loss of income from the other assets.

On the NXT Asset Exchange, Mining assets and their issuers receive negative karma for every delay in payment. Given LTCgears lack of payment it is understandable that printshop's karma would be more negative than positive. If you do not believe this just look at the LTCgear thread and the emotions expressed there (before moderation). This is not the only source of negative karma but I believe it is the largest component.

I expect cassius69 that you provided some of the negative karma, is this correct?

Edited to add refferences

[takagari]

.
.
.

well known on nxtforum

he has issued 4 failed assets in a few months...

https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)-kongzi-print-shop

i am not sure how their trust system works but it looks like his trust (karma?) is +80/-133 I assume having a bigger negative number then positive number is similar to having negative trust although I may be wrong on this

Yes printshop has 4 assets, however, the 'failed' comment is not accurate yet.

3 assets are mining related and dependent on LTCgear.
Bearmining is a pass-through for LTCgear and has failed if LTCgear has failed, this is yet to be decided.
SafeHash has a guaranteed value in case of failure backed by USDbitfx and similar assets.  This was also dependent on LTCgear and printshop has been buying them back if people want to sell. There was one large (company?) investor in this and they may have wanted to exit their position.
dailytrade also dependent on LTCgear was released last month and printshop has been buying them back if people wanted to sell.
These 3 have only failed if LTCgear has failed, the dependencies were clear to buyers and in the case of the pass-through asset printshop was extremely clear about the risks.

The fourth asset KNS has not failed, in any sense. It has, however, suffered a set back due to loss of income from the other assets.

On the NXT Asset Exchange, Mining assets and their issuers receive negative karma for every delay in payment. Given LTCgears lack of payment it is understandable that printshop's karma would be more negative than positive. If you do not believe this just look at the LTCgear thread and the emotions expressed there (before moderation). This is not the only source of negative karma but I believe it is the largest component.

I expect cassius69 that you provided some of the negative karma, is this correct?

Well written.
I'm happier doing business with print. Glad to hhear.