SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 02, 2015, 01:37:30 PM |
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Hi,
I am thinking of buying an Antminer but am unclear on what's most suitable for my situation. I put this thread here since I'm a noob and as such I may well have place it in the wrong section.
Is the following assumption correct: people upgrade their (ant)miners because of it's cost efficiency; more hashing with the same or less power consumption. This is what keeps it profitable since miners have to deal with the electricity bills.
What if you don't pay for electricity? Is it wise to go for (a couple of) second hand s3's rather than buying 1 newer unit? I could go up to 3500w but prefer around 2000w.
Is a PSU the only thing you need to get those things running?
Thank you
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 02, 2015, 02:43:33 PM |
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Thank you for your reply. The electricity is not free, but it's included in the rental price of my appartment. I do know it's forbidden to run servers but that's because of fair use of the network (internet is also included in rentalprice). There is only 1 meter for X amount of apartments so what I, or any other tennant, use more than the average is always considered to be coming from a pool of X unidentified apartments. Two S5's running 24/7, or two sp20's ftm, will not be noticed. Also: I (pre)paid to use a certain amount of electricity and as long as I stay under max usage, noone cares.
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kpitti
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January 03, 2015, 09:28:03 PM |
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Thank you for your reply. The electricity is not free, but it's included in the rental price of my appartment. I do know it's forbidden to run servers but that's because of fair use of the network (internet is also included in rentalprice). There is only 1 meter for X amount of apartments so what I, or any other tennant, use more than the average is always considered to be coming from a pool of X unidentified apartments. Two S5's running 24/7, or two sp20's ftm, will not be noticed. Also: I (pre)paid to use a certain amount of electricity and as long as I stay under max usage, noone cares. If you choose AntMiner S5 or SP20 make sure that you understand these things: 1. How difficulty will impact your operations. You can find number of Mining calculators which can help you. For example: http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator2. Since you believe your eletricity charge is included of rental price - do you know what is a maximum usage? Do you know how much will these boxes consume per 24hours? 3. Both boxes are great of perfomance, but they are noisy and producing lot of heat. You need to run it on place where you have connection to Internet (using ethernet cable) I like your approach, just be prepared and understand your business. Good luck
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LOBSTER
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January 03, 2015, 09:59:54 PM |
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Always calculate if the investment is it worth.
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btckold24
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January 04, 2015, 05:05:25 AM |
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chuck said it right I had to turn mine off after a couple months - the electricity was to dam high (especially with it at this price)
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 08:54:37 AM |
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thanks for your suggestions. I was thinking to get 2 SP20's: $1000 for 3400 GH/s = $0.34 per GH/s. The group buy was extended to january 5th and reservation fees are off the table.
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 09:11:33 AM Last edit: January 04, 2015, 09:28:17 AM by SeymourSkinner |
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If you choose AntMiner S5 or SP20 make sure that you understand these things: 1. How difficulty will impact your operations. You can find number of Mining calculators which can help you. For example: http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator2. Since you believe your eletricity charge is included of rental price - do you know what is a maximum usage? Do you know how much will these boxes consume per 24hours? 3. Both boxes are great of perfomance, but they are noisy and producing lot of heat. You need to run it on place where you have connection to Internet (using ethernet cable) I like your approach, just be prepared and understand your business. Good luck 1. I've made this estimate for 3.4 TH/s in 2015, basically it's a 10% per month cumulative sliding scale: https://i.imgur.com/WuU2EbP.jpgIs this realistic? 2. Maximum usage is 3500 Watts per group. I have three groups of which 1 grounded (the kitchen group) and I'll use this one to power the machines. I don't know the maximum usage per day but I do know there's a 20% usage added 'at the wall' in regards to the original specs. 1155w I believe is orginal usage and I'm planning to get four of those 750w corsairs. 3. The room where they'll be put is a closed storage space built back in the day for 'other purposes'. Heat is actively transported can find it's way outside since there is direct connection to the outside through a crude ventilation channel. If need be I can put up a airsucker and/or tabletop fans. Thanks for explaining! If I'm missing something a point somewhere please do tell.
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 09:25:56 AM |
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Always calculate if the investment is it worth.
I agree. however I don't think stretching todays numbers over 12 months is solid enough to come to something I'd call a 'credible' calculation. Like the numbers in above post: it's fingers crossed and I'm telling myself it's profitable because of the 'free' electricity and speculating on a rise in value. I posted it above to see if this calculation is realistic, what's do you think of those numbers?
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 09:27:48 AM |
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chuck said it right I had to turn mine off after a couple months - the electricity was to dam high (especially with it at this price)
Did you see ROI? How much GH/s? If electricty wasnt a factor, how long would you have kept running it?
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conteaza
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January 04, 2015, 09:48:02 AM Last edit: January 04, 2015, 10:04:42 AM by conteaza |
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chuck said it right I had to turn mine off after a couple months - the electricity was to dam high (especially with it at this price)
Did you see ROI? How much GH/s? If electricty wasnt a factor, how long would you have kept running it? I advise you not to buy miners because difficult has tripled in the last 6 months ... so you can expect to make at least half of how much you can mine nowadays with for example S5 ,better buy some coins ( I expect the price may go unde 260-250$) and hold long-term ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 10:43:18 AM |
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I advise you not to buy miners because difficult has tripled in the last 6 months ... so you can expect to make at least half of how much you can mine nowadays with for example S5 ,better buy some coins ( I expect the price may go unde 260-250$) and hold long-term ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Isn't there a limit to maximum hash in regards to cost-effectiveness; network pressure will not go over a certain amount as to remain profitable. Considering this, can/will it triple again? I can't tell. But you make a valid point, I could just buy 6 BTC now and let them sit for 12 months. Maybe they'll hit 500. Now you put doubt in my head ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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conteaza
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January 04, 2015, 01:28:31 PM |
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I advise you not to buy miners because difficult has tripled in the last 6 months ... so you can expect to make at least half of how much you can mine nowadays with for example S5 ,better buy some coins ( I expect the price may go unde 260-250$) and hold long-term ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Isn't there a limit to maximum hash in regards to cost-effectiveness; network pressure will not go over a certain amount as to remain profitable. Considering this, can/will it triple again? I can't tell. But you make a valid point, I could just buy 6 BTC now and let them sit for 12 months. Maybe they'll hit 500. Now you put doubt in my head ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) I'm just saying the facts resulting from this chart http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-time/ and this does not mean that difficult will triple again in the next 6 months and I guess they'll hit much more that 500 this year ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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kpitti
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January 04, 2015, 04:32:14 PM |
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If you choose AntMiner S5 or SP20 make sure that you understand these things: 1. How difficulty will impact your operations. You can find number of Mining calculators which can help you. For example: http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator2. Since you believe your eletricity charge is included of rental price - do you know what is a maximum usage? Do you know how much will these boxes consume per 24hours? 3. Both boxes are great of perfomance, but they are noisy and producing lot of heat. You need to run it on place where you have connection to Internet (using ethernet cable) I like your approach, just be prepared and understand your business. Good luck 1. I've made this estimate for 3.4 TH/s in 2015, basically it's a 10% per month cumulative sliding scale: ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWuU2EbP.jpg&t=665&c=iQy0-cFLd7P32g) Is this realistic? 2. Maximum usage is 3500 Watts per group. I have three groups of which 1 grounded (the kitchen group) and I'll use this one to power the machines. I don't know the maximum usage per day but I do know there's a 20% usage added 'at the wall' in regards to the original specs. 1155w I believe is orginal usage and I'm planning to get four of those 750w corsairs. 3. The room where they'll be put is a closed storage space built back in the day for 'other purposes'. Heat is actively transported can find it's way outside since there is direct connection to the outside through a crude ventilation channel. If need be I can put up a airsucker and/or tabletop fans. Thanks for explaining! If I'm missing something a point somewhere please do tell. I think you are very well prepared ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) . I would be more sceptical in Difficulty increase. If you can`t ROI within 3-4 month than you will not ROI even. Only if you will be able to sell used Miners for reasonable money to cover your investment. I can tell you that I like mining, but I stopped all already. It seems that you believe in Bitcoin, then I would just buy and hold them. Use good cold storage or paper wallet. Make more copies and put them on safe places.
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Amph
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January 04, 2015, 04:43:41 PM |
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with the price falling, and the diff not adjusting fast enough because it take 2160 block, it will be not worth it, even with free electricity
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 08:44:19 PM |
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I think you are very well prepared ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) . I would be more sceptical in Difficulty increase. If you can`t ROI within 3-4 month than you will not ROI even. Only if you will be able to sell used Miners for reasonable money to cover your investment. I can tell you that I like mining, but I stopped all already. It seems that you believe in Bitcoin, then I would just buy and hold them. Use good cold storage or paper wallet. Make more copies and put them on safe places. Thanks! How about this one: https://i.imgur.com/eTcSNLV.jpgThis again is @3.4TH btw. I guess I do believe in Bitcoin and with these numbers it's indeed not worth the effort compared to just buying a couple. I could shove the old gear down someones throat but that way I cannot enjoy a profit. Also, the way the price is going these numbers may be just as naive as the previous. Do you know any pros in regards to difficulty-related miracles coming from next-gen networkpressure? Aside from the falling-price-factor, which btw is?, what's bitcoins 'critical hash? And when the net closes, which fish swim out first? How much fish are there anyway, and how big?
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 08:46:45 PM |
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What do you expect will happen?
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SeymourSkinner (OP)
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January 04, 2015, 09:04:36 PM |
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with the price falling, and the diff not adjusting fast enough because it take 2160 block, it will be not worth it, even with free electricity
I don't understand that part yet...
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conteaza
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January 04, 2015, 09:07:40 PM |
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What do you expect will happen? I exepect that after the price will rise this will attract new miners accordingly the difficult will rise in the coming few months (at least twice... who knows.. ) and if today with 2TH/s you mine 1 BTC/40 days ,in the coming 4-6 months you can expect 1 BTC/~100 days ,so I guess better way is to buy some and not to throw away money for electricity bills
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