Looking for advice on buying an Antminer

[SeymourSkinner]

Hi,

I am thinking of buying an Antminer but am unclear on what's most suitable for my situation. I put this thread here since I'm a noob and as such I may well have place it in the wrong section.

Is the following assumption correct: people upgrade their (ant)miners because of it's cost efficiency; more hashing with the same or less power consumption. This is what keeps it profitable since miners have to deal with the electricity bills.

What if you don't pay for electricity? Is it wise to go for (a couple of) second hand s3's rather than buying 1 newer unit? I could go up to 3500w but prefer around 2000w.

Is a PSU the only thing you need to get those things running?

Thank you

[ChuckBuck]

If you have "free electricity" costs then I'd suggest to get a either of the following:

https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201412231604153619o9X1obn0693

or probably the best deal on the market at the moment:

http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/roadstresss-sp20-special-holiday-gb


Either of those options should fulfill your mining needs.  As for PSU's, multiples of these would do the ticket:

Seasonic SS-650KM and Corsair CX750M


Before you dive right into mining, make sure you know the exact terms of electrical use for your lease/rental contract/mom or pop.  Whoever pays the bill will be sure to come knocking at your door at some point.  Running these things 24/7 will sure make the electrical bill pop!

[SeymourSkinner]

If you have "free electricity" costs then I'd suggest to get a either of the following:

https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201412231604153619o9X1obn0693

or probably the best deal on the market at the moment:

http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/roadstresss-sp20-special-holiday-gb


Either of those options should fulfill your mining needs.  As for PSU's, multiples of these would do the ticket:

Seasonic SS-650KM and Corsair CX750M


Before you dive right into mining, make sure you know the exact terms of electrical use for your lease/rental contract/mom or pop.  Whoever pays the bill will be sure to come knocking at your door at some point.  Running these things 24/7 will sure make the electrical bill pop!

Thank you for your reply.

The electricity is not free, but it's included in the rental price of my appartment. I do know it's forbidden to run servers but that's because of fair use of the network (internet is also included in rentalprice).

There is only 1 meter for X amount of apartments so what I, or any other tennant, use more than the average is always considered to be coming from a pool of X unidentified apartments. Two S5's running 24/7, or two sp20's ftm, will not be noticed. Also: I (pre)paid to use a certain amount of electricity and as long as I stay under max usage, noone cares.

[Buziss]

When you have the electricity cost covered by landlord, it makes sense for you to buy less efficient but cheaper (per GH/s) miners.

For comparison:
S3: $149 for 453 GH/s = $0.329 per GH/s
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020141015100808946Nj1LM03y0650

Batch 4 S5: $401 for 1155GH/s = $0.347 per GH/s (and you won't get your miner before January 12th)
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201412231604153619o9X1obn0693

SP20: $659 for 1700 GH/s = $0.388 per GH/s
http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/holiday-special-sp20-jackson-shipping-from-stock

[kpitti]

If you have "free electricity" costs then I'd suggest to get a either of the following:

https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201412231604153619o9X1obn0693

or probably the best deal on the market at the moment:

http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/roadstresss-sp20-special-holiday-gb


Either of those options should fulfill your mining needs.  As for PSU's, multiples of these would do the ticket:

Seasonic SS-650KM and Corsair CX750M


Before you dive right into mining, make sure you know the exact terms of electrical use for your lease/rental contract/mom or pop.  Whoever pays the bill will be sure to come knocking at your door at some point.  Running these things 24/7 will sure make the electrical bill pop!

Thank you for your reply.

The electricity is not free, but it's included in the rental price of my appartment. I do know it's forbidden to run servers but that's because of fair use of the network (internet is also included in rentalprice).

There is only 1 meter for X amount of apartments so what I, or any other tennant, use more than the average is always considered to be coming from a pool of X unidentified apartments. Two S5's running 24/7, or two sp20's ftm, will not be noticed. Also: I (pre)paid to use a certain amount of electricity and as long as I stay under max usage, noone cares.

If you choose AntMiner S5 or SP20 make sure that you understand these things:

1. How difficulty will impact your operations. You can find number of Mining calculators which can help you. For example: http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator
2. Since you believe your eletricity charge is included of rental price - do you know what is a maximum usage? Do you know how much will these boxes consume per 24hours?
3. Both boxes are great of perfomance, but they are noisy and producing lot of heat. You need to run it on place where you have connection to Internet (using ethernet cable)

I like your approach, just be prepared and understand your business. Good luck

[LOBSTER]

Always calculate if the investment is it worth.

[btckold24]

chuck said it right I had to turn mine off after a couple months - the electricity was to dam high (especially with it at this price)

[SeymourSkinner]

When you have the electricity cost covered by landlord, it makes sense for you to buy less efficient but cheaper (per GH/s) miners.

For comparison:
S3: $149 for 453 GH/s = $0.329 per GH/s
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020141015100808946Nj1LM03y0650

Batch 4 S5: $401 for 1155GH/s = $0.347 per GH/s (and you won't get your miner before January 12th)
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=000201412231604153619o9X1obn0693

SP20: $659 for 1700 GH/s = $0.388 per GH/s
http://www.spondoolies-tech.com/products/holiday-special-sp20-jackson-shipping-from-stock

thanks for your suggestions.

I was thinking to get 2 SP20's: $1000 for 3400 GH/s = $0.34 per GH/s. The group buy was extended to january 5th and reservation fees are off the table.

[SeymourSkinner]

If you choose AntMiner S5 or SP20 make sure that you understand these things:

1. How difficulty will impact your operations. You can find number of Mining calculators which can help you. For example: http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator
2. Since you believe your eletricity charge is included of rental price - do you know what is a maximum usage? Do you know how much will these boxes consume per 24hours?
3. Both boxes are great of perfomance, but they are noisy and producing lot of heat. You need to run it on place where you have connection to Internet (using ethernet cable)

I like your approach, just be prepared and understand your business. Good luck

1. I've made this estimate for 3.4 TH/s in 2015, basically it's a 10% per month cumulative sliding scale:

https://i.imgur.com/WuU2EbP.jpg

Is this realistic?

2. Maximum usage is 3500 Watts per group. I have three groups of which 1 grounded (the kitchen group) and I'll use this one to power the machines. I don't know the maximum usage per day but I do know there's a 20% usage added 'at the wall' in regards to the original specs. 1155w I believe is orginal usage and I'm planning to get four of those 750w corsairs.

3. The room where they'll be put is a closed storage space built back in the day for 'other purposes'. Heat is actively transported can find it's way outside since there is direct connection to the outside through a crude ventilation channel. If need be I can put up a airsucker and/or tabletop fans.

Thanks for explaining! If I'm missing something a point somewhere please do tell.

[SeymourSkinner]

Always calculate if the investment is it worth.

I agree. however I don't think stretching todays numbers over 12 months is solid enough to come to something I'd call a 'credible' calculation. Like the numbers in above post: it's fingers crossed and I'm telling myself it's profitable because of the 'free' electricity and speculating on a rise in value.

I posted it above to see if this calculation is realistic, what's do you think of those numbers?

[SeymourSkinner]

chuck said it right I had to turn mine off after a couple months - the electricity was to dam high (especially with it at this price)

Did you see ROI?

How much GH/s?

If electricty wasnt a factor, how long would you have kept running it?

[conteaza]

chuck said it right I had to turn mine off after a couple months - the electricity was to dam high (especially with it at this price)

Did you see ROI?

How much GH/s?

If electricty wasnt a factor, how long would you have kept running it?

I advise you not to buy miners because difficult has tripled in the last 6 months ... so you can expect to make at least half of how much you can mine nowadays with for example S5 ,better buy some coins ( I expect the price may go unde 260-250$) and  hold long-term  

[SeymourSkinner]

I advise you not to buy miners because difficult has tripled in the last 6 months ... so you can expect to make at least half of how much you can mine nowadays with for example S5 ,better buy some coins ( I expect the price may go unde 260-250$) and  hold long-term  

Isn't there a limit to maximum hash in regards to cost-effectiveness; network pressure will not go over a certain amount as to remain profitable. Considering this, can/will it triple again? I can't tell.

But you make a valid point, I could just buy 6 BTC now and let them sit for 12 months. Maybe they'll hit 500.

Now you put doubt in my head

[conteaza]

I advise you not to buy miners because difficult has tripled in the last 6 months ... so you can expect to make at least half of how much you can mine nowadays with for example S5 ,better buy some coins ( I expect the price may go unde 260-250$) and  hold long-term  

Isn't there a limit to maximum hash in regards to cost-effectiveness; network pressure will not go over a certain amount as to remain profitable. Considering this, can/will it triple again? I can't tell.

But you make a valid point, I could just buy 6 BTC now and let them sit for 12 months. Maybe they'll hit 500.

Now you put doubt in my head

I'm just saying the facts resulting from this chart http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-time/ and this does not mean that difficult will triple again in the next 6 months and I guess they'll hit much more that 500  this year

[kpitti]

If you choose AntMiner S5 or SP20 make sure that you understand these things:

1. How difficulty will impact your operations. You can find number of Mining calculators which can help you. For example: http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/bitcoin-mining-calculator
2. Since you believe your eletricity charge is included of rental price - do you know what is a maximum usage? Do you know how much will these boxes consume per 24hours?
3. Both boxes are great of perfomance, but they are noisy and producing lot of heat. You need to run it on place where you have connection to Internet (using ethernet cable)

I like your approach, just be prepared and understand your business. Good luck

1. I've made this estimate for 3.4 TH/s in 2015, basically it's a 10% per month cumulative sliding scale:



Is this realistic?

2. Maximum usage is 3500 Watts per group. I have three groups of which 1 grounded (the kitchen group) and I'll use this one to power the machines. I don't know the maximum usage per day but I do know there's a 20% usage added 'at the wall' in regards to the original specs. 1155w I believe is orginal usage and I'm planning to get four of those 750w corsairs.

3. The room where they'll be put is a closed storage space built back in the day for 'other purposes'. Heat is actively transported can find it's way outside since there is direct connection to the outside through a crude ventilation channel. If need be I can put up a airsucker and/or tabletop fans.

Thanks for explaining! If I'm missing something a point somewhere please do tell.

I think you are very well prepared . I would be more sceptical in Difficulty increase. If you can`t ROI within 3-4 month than you will not ROI even. Only if you will be able to sell used Miners for reasonable money to cover your investment.

I can tell you that I like mining, but I stopped all already.

It seems that you believe in Bitcoin, then I would just buy and hold them. Use good cold storage or paper wallet. Make more copies and put them on safe places.

[Amph]

with the price falling, and the diff not adjusting fast enough because it take 2160 block, it will be not worth it, even with free electricity

[SeymourSkinner]

I think you are very well prepared . I would be more sceptical in Difficulty increase. If you can`t ROI within 3-4 month than you will not ROI even. Only if you will be able to sell used Miners for reasonable money to cover your investment.

I can tell you that I like mining, but I stopped all already.

It seems that you believe in Bitcoin, then I would just buy and hold them. Use good cold storage or paper wallet. Make more copies and put them on safe places.

Thanks! How about this one:

https://i.imgur.com/eTcSNLV.jpg

This again is @3.4TH btw.

I guess I do believe in Bitcoin and with these numbers it's indeed not worth the effort compared to just buying a couple. I could shove the old gear down someones throat but that way I cannot enjoy a profit. Also, the way the price is going these numbers may be just as naive as the previous.

Do you know any pros in regards to difficulty-related miracles coming from next-gen networkpressure? Aside from the falling-price-factor, which btw is?, what's bitcoins 'critical hash? And when the net closes, which fish swim out first? How much fish are there anyway, and how big?

[SeymourSkinner]

I'm just saying the facts resulting from this chart http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-time/ and this does not mean that difficult will triple again in the next 6 months and I guess they'll hit much more that 500  this year

What do you expect will happen?

[SeymourSkinner]

with the price falling, and the diff not adjusting fast enough because it take 2160 block, it will be not worth it, even with free electricity

I don't understand that part yet...

[conteaza]

I'm just saying the facts resulting from this chart http://www.coindesk.com/data/bitcoin-mining-difficulty-time/ and this does not mean that difficult will triple again in the next 6 months and I guess they'll hit much more that 500  this year

What do you expect will happen?

I exepect that after the price will rise this will attract new miners accordingly the difficult will rise in the coming few months (at least twice... who knows.. ) and if today with 2TH/s you mine 1 BTC/40 days ,in the coming 4-6 months you can expect  1 BTC/~100 days ,so I guess better way is to buy some and not to throw away money for electricity bills