Bitcoin ends up to be a ponzi scheme after all

[sumzeroend]

Bitcoin now ends up to be a ponzi after all, No matter how thin scammers slice it

It's just a pyramid scheme of
Few of who sell first able to grab your money, Most of who sell late to be the last bag holders and lost everything

A lot of the guys saying to hold and wait it out are probably people who paid very little for the bitcoins and therefore can hold and have an incentive for you to hold.

If you paid more than $300 for a bitcoin and continue to watch your investment take losses is far more difficult.

The way I would look at it from an investment standpoint is anybody really convincing me why it should go higher? Why did it get so high in the first place? Why did it take off and go mainstream when it hit $1000 and was in the news every day?

Loss minimizing is also a very important part of investing. If you are taking losses then you should cut them.

In my opinion bitcoin will rise a little from here before the next leg down to $200. But that is just my speculation opinion of course.

I'm surprised too that people here hold positions or add to losing position when trend is clearly bearish.  If it was easy to short I'd be short scalping every pop.

Also, I can't believe people put real money in a meme like HODL.  Cut your losses and ride your winners.  Only way to make money trading

The problem is because you have many people who paid close to nothing for their bitcoins.  If you take the rise from $13 and up, bitcoins were very cheap for the longest time, many people have loads and loads of cheap bitcoins.

What you have now is these people convincing other people to buy and hold so they can hopefully cash out at higher prices. It is really sad but it is money after all, everybody is doing what benefits them even though it is a bad investment coming in at these high prices which are sill very unsustainable as it continues to prove.

There is really no convincing reason why bitcoin should go higher. I guess many peoples real hope was to get an ETF to get the unsophisticated public to buy into it but it seems the SEC obviously knows it is a scam and isn't going to subject the general public to what looks to be a Ponzi scheme, and also for the fact that bitcoin is inherently insecure and everybody who invests in the ETF can lose their money form just a single person having the correct keys. Look at Mt Gox.

You would think that the steady slow drop in price would smarted people up but I guess not, everybody wants to make easy money. Money is not easy to make and buying into bitcoins at this point is a very bad decision as it has already run its course and it's not going to make people rich again.

[smoothie]

Pon·zi scheme
ˈpänzē ˌskēm/
noun
a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.


Bitcoin does not guarantee returns nor is there a "Bitcoin Enterprise" you are investing in. lol

Sorry your definition fit fails.  

[User705]

So hundreds per coin is considered losing everything.  Hmmm....  Starting to slowly feel like bottom.

[sumzeroend]

Pon·zi scheme
ˈpänzē ˌskēm/
noun
a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.


Bitcoin does not guarantee returns.

Sorry your definition fit fails.  

World Bank Report: Bitcoin is a 'Naturally Occurring' Ponzi
http://www.coindesk.com/world-bank-report-bitcoin-naturally-occurring-ponzi/

sorry your intention to scam more to buy failed

[awas]

everything is becoming a ponzi...

[smoothie]

Pon·zi scheme
ˈpänzē ˌskēm/
noun
a form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.


Bitcoin does not guarantee returns.

Sorry your definition fit fails.  

World Bank Report: Bitcoin is a 'Naturally Occurring' Ponzi
http://www.coindesk.com/world-bank-report-bitcoin-naturally-occurring-ponzi/

sorry your intention to scam more to buy failed

Just because you linked an article doesn't mean the definition is used properly within said article.

Once again you fail:  

LINK: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/ponzischeme.asp

"DEFINITION OF 'PONZI SCHEME'
A fraudulent investing scam promising high rates of return with little risk to investors. The Ponzi scheme generates returns for older investors by acquiring new investors. This scam actually yields the promised returns to earlier investors, as long as there are more new investors. These schemes usually collapse on themselves when the new investments stop.


INVESTOPEDIA EXPLAINS 'PONZI SCHEME'
The Ponzi scam is named after Charles Ponzi, a clerk in Boston who first orchestrated such a scheme in 1919.

A Ponzi scheme is similar to a pyramid scheme in that both are based on using new investors' funds to pay the earlier backers. One difference between the two schemes is that the Ponzi mastermind gathers all relevant funds from new investors and then distributes them. Pyramid schemes, on the other hand, allow each investor to directly benefit depending on how many new investors are recruited. In this case, the person on the top of the pyramid does not at any point have access to all the money in the system.

For both schemes, however, eventually there isn't enough money to go around and the schemes unravel."

You seem presumptuous to imply I am trying to scam anyone. I have a spotless record on this forum and online for over 3+ years.

Your account lol...is pretty new.  

Name:   sumzeroend
Posts:   2
Activity:   0
Position:   Newbie
Date Registered:   Today at 04:47:45 AM
Last Active:   Today at 05:06:30 AM

[dropt]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

[dropt]

sumzeroend is a ponzi.

[twiifm]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin

[smoothie]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin

Oh rly?

Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270.

Yup can't "grow" into its valuation.  

Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today?  

[twiifm]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin

Oh rly?

Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270.

Yup can't "grow" into its valuation.  

Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today?  

That's purely from speculation not fundamentals.  Shiller won the Nobel for his "irrational exuberance" theory.  Sorry but you are the idiot here

[smoothie]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin

Oh rly?

Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270.

Yup can't "grow" into its valuation.  

Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today?  

That's purely from speculation not fundamentals

Fundamental: Person A buys 100,000 Bitcoin at pennies...

Then decides to spend said bitcoins with merchant B who sells goods.

Yeah pretty sure the "fundamentals" you speak of are there with Bitcoin.

You are just not wanting to see it or are too ignorant to see it.  <---- Take your pick.

[twiifm]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin

Oh rly?

Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270.

Yup can't "grow" into its valuation.  

Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today?  

That's purely from speculation not fundamentals

Fundamental: Person A buys 100,000 Bitcoin at pennies...

Then decides to spend said bitcoins with merchant B who sells goods.

Yeah pretty sure the "fundamentals" you speak of are there with Bitcoin.

You are just not wanting to see it or are too ignorant to see it.  <---- Take your pick.

You're  embarrassing yourself. 

[seleme]

Bitcoin now ends up to be a ponzi after all, No matter how thin scammers slice it

It's just a pyramid scheme of
Few of who sell first able to grab your money, Most of who sell late to be the last bag holders and lost everything

A lot of the guys saying to hold and wait it out are probably people who paid very little for the bitcoins and therefore can hold and have an incentive for you to hold.

If you paid more than $300 for a bitcoin and continue to watch your investment take losses is far more difficult.

The way I would look at it from an investment standpoint is anybody really convincing me why it should go higher? Why did it get so high in the first place? Why did it take off and go mainstream when it hit $1000 and was in the news every day?

Loss minimizing is also a very important part of investing. If you are taking losses then you should cut them.

In my opinion bitcoin will rise a little from here before the next leg down to $200. But that is just my speculation opinion of course.

I'm surprised too that people here hold positions or add to losing position when trend is clearly bearish.  If it was easy to short I'd be short scalping every pop.

Also, I can't believe people put real money in a meme like HODL.  Cut your losses and ride your winners.  Only way to make money trading

The problem is because you have many people who paid close to nothing for their bitcoins.  If you take the rise from $13 and up, bitcoins were very cheap for the longest time, many people have loads and loads of cheap bitcoins.

What you have now is these people convincing other people to buy and hold so they can hopefully cash out at higher prices. It is really sad but it is money after all, everybody is doing what benefits them even though it is a bad investment coming in at these high prices which are sill very unsustainable as it continues to prove.

There is really no convincing reason why bitcoin should go higher. I guess many peoples real hope was to get an ETF to get the unsophisticated public to buy into it but it seems the SEC obviously knows it is a scam and isn't going to subject the general public to what looks to be a Ponzi scheme, and also for the fact that bitcoin is inherently insecure and everybody who invests in the ETF can lose their money form just a single person having the correct keys. Look at Mt Gox.

You would think that the steady slow drop in price would smarted people up but I guess not, everybody wants to make easy money. Money is not easy to make and buying into bitcoins at this point is a very bad decision as it has already run its course and it's not going to make people rich again.

You probably don't know that Edward is guy who was screaming SELL when Bitcoin was 2$ in 2011

[smoothie]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin

Oh rly?

Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270.

Yup can't "grow" into its valuation.  

Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today?  

That's purely from speculation not fundamentals

Fundamental: Person A buys 100,000 Bitcoin at pennies...

Then decides to spend said bitcoins with merchant B who sells goods.

Yeah pretty sure the "fundamentals" you speak of are there with Bitcoin.

You are just not wanting to see it or are too ignorant to see it.  <---- Take your pick.

You're  embarrassing yourself. 

Oh really? lol please show the holes in my argument.

You say bitcoin lacks fundamentals and is purely from speculation but I just gave you a simple example of where bitcoin is not purely speculation-used and has fundamental uses going on within the economy/network of bitcoin.

Please embarrass me away.  

[smoothie]

Bitcoin now ends up to be a ponzi after all, No matter how thin scammers slice it

It's just a pyramid scheme of
Few of who sell first able to grab your money, Most of who sell late to be the last bag holders and lost everything

A lot of the guys saying to hold and wait it out are probably people who paid very little for the bitcoins and therefore can hold and have an incentive for you to hold.

If you paid more than $300 for a bitcoin and continue to watch your investment take losses is far more difficult.

The way I would look at it from an investment standpoint is anybody really convincing me why it should go higher? Why did it get so high in the first place? Why did it take off and go mainstream when it hit $1000 and was in the news every day?

Loss minimizing is also a very important part of investing. If you are taking losses then you should cut them.

In my opinion bitcoin will rise a little from here before the next leg down to $200. But that is just my speculation opinion of course.

I'm surprised too that people here hold positions or add to losing position when trend is clearly bearish.  If it was easy to short I'd be short scalping every pop.

Also, I can't believe people put real money in a meme like HODL.  Cut your losses and ride your winners.  Only way to make money trading

The problem is because you have many people who paid close to nothing for their bitcoins.  If you take the rise from $13 and up, bitcoins were very cheap for the longest time, many people have loads and loads of cheap bitcoins.

What you have now is these people convincing other people to buy and hold so they can hopefully cash out at higher prices. It is really sad but it is money after all, everybody is doing what benefits them even though it is a bad investment coming in at these high prices which are sill very unsustainable as it continues to prove.

There is really no convincing reason why bitcoin should go higher. I guess many peoples real hope was to get an ETF to get the unsophisticated public to buy into it but it seems the SEC obviously knows it is a scam and isn't going to subject the general public to what looks to be a Ponzi scheme, and also for the fact that bitcoin is inherently insecure and everybody who invests in the ETF can lose their money form just a single person having the correct keys. Look at Mt Gox.

You would think that the steady slow drop in price would smarted people up but I guess not, everybody wants to make easy money. Money is not easy to make and buying into bitcoins at this point is a very bad decision as it has already run its course and it's not going to make people rich again.

You probably don't know that Edward is guy who was screaming SELL when Bitcoin was 2$ in 2011

Of course he doesn't his account was created today and can't seem to use the word ponzi in the proper context of its definition.

Edward is funny to listen to though. "We are going to $1"....

[Enzyme]

The troll is high in this one.

[twiifm]

“The problem stems from the fact that we can have what Robert Shiller calls ‘naturally occurring Ponzis’, that is, financial bubbles that form without the manipulator’s baton but from finished natural market forces and with one person’s expectations feeding into another’s,” says Basu."

That pretty much describes most of the stock market IMO.   Are you saying the entire stock market is a Ponzi?

You noob clowns need some new material.

Wrong! equities can grow into their valuations but not an empty speculative asset like bitcoin

Oh rly?

Bitcoin price went from $0 to now $270.

Yup can't "grow" into its valuation.  

Is it me or are all of the idiots who think they know what they are talking about online today?  

That's purely from speculation not fundamentals

Fundamental: Person A buys 100,000 Bitcoin at pennies...

Then decides to spend said bitcoins with merchant B who sells goods.

Yeah pretty sure the "fundamentals" you speak of are there with Bitcoin.

You are just not wanting to see it or are too ignorant to see it.  <---- Take your pick.

You're  embarrassing yourself. 

Oh really? lol please show the holes in my argument.

You say bitcoin lacks fundamentals and is purely from speculation but I just gave you a simple example of where bitcoin is not purely speculation-used and has fundamental uses going on within the economy/network of bitcoin.

Please embarrass me away.  

The obvious is you don't know what fundamentals mean.  

[STT]

It's just a pyramid scheme of
Few of who sell first able to grab your money, Most of who sell late to be the last bag holders and lost everything

I think this is just misunderstanding.   You can say bitcoin is no good without it being a pyramid scheme.  I could buy a load of carrots and find it a bad transaction, either was a bumper harvest and others similarly were able to source enough carrots so we got too much supply or it could just the produce was bad.   Even if I was scammed by some front, still not a pyramid
  Theres no multiplication effect in bitcoin causing it to be a pyramid, the only similar thing might be the online hype effect where knowledge and acceptance of bitcoin was not linear but more exponential but the protocol itself is quite set and regular to stop over supply

[twiifm]

It's just a pyramid scheme of
Few of who sell first able to grab your money, Most of who sell late to be the last bag holders and lost everything

I think this is just misunderstanding.   You can say bitcoin is no good without it being a pyramid scheme.  I could buy a load of carrots and find it a bad transaction, either was a bumper harvest and others similarly were able to source enough carrots so we got too much supply or it could just the produce was bad.   Even if I was scammed by some front, still not a pyramid
  Theres no multiplication effect in bitcoin causing it to be a pyramid, the only similar thing might be the online hype effect where knowledge and acceptance of bitcoin was not linear but more exponential but the protocol itself is quite set and regular to stop over supply

Bitcoin fits into the definition of Shiller's "naturally occurring ponzi" which is a more or less a behavioral economics explanation of inflating asset bubbles