Replacing DefaultTrust

[TECSHARE]

In short the staff blew this incident out of proportion in order to use it to punish me for my criticisms as well as my refusal to bow to this attempt at using the default trust removal as leverage to force me to remove the rating.

hmm i consider you trustworthy and you are on my trust list but this i just dont believe this (and yes i have read all the important threads about it).

And you shouldn't. It's just another conspiracy he made up to try help his argument.

The very fact that you do vigorously refute my accusations with marginalizing statements attempting to associate me with paranoia and ancient alien reptoid type stuff demonstrates that you feel a need to refute it to protect yourself. If it was untrue then my arguments should fail on their own and you shouldn't need to constantly use marginalizing statements like this would you? There needs to be no conspiracy involved, only perfectly organic nepotism, and a distaste for being criticized.

He's talking about how people can exclude users using ~ on their trust lists to those they don't trust (it doesn't 'remove' feedback but Techshare's doesn't show up as trusted anymore). And no it wasn't me. If you go to the trust tree you will see who has done so as your name will be on their list but with a strikethrough.

ok, so basically someone on defaultrust has done this?
but why is his feedback removed then? how is something removed he did earn?

It doesn't remove it, it just makes anyone on the default trust not factor it into how they see my trust rated calculation.

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[Vod]

In short the staff blew this incident out of proportion in order to use it to punish me for my criticisms as well as my refusal to bow to this attempt at using the default trust removal as leverage to force me to remove the rating.

hmm i consider you trustworthy and you are on my trust list but this i just dont believe this (and yes i have read all the important threads about it).

And you shouldn't. It's just another conspiracy he made up to try help his argument.

The very fact that you do vigorously refute my accusations with marginalizing statements attempting to associate me with paranoia and ancient alien reptoid type stuff demonstrates that you feel a need to refute it to protect yourself. If it was untrue then my arguments should fail on their own and you shouldn't need to constantly use marginalizing statements like this would you? There needs to be no conspiracy involved, only perfectly organic nepotism, and a distaste for being criticized.

A lot of big words there.  I'd say that the reason staff call you a liar is because you've been proven a liar many times.   

[TECSHARE]

In short the staff blew this incident out of proportion in order to use it to punish me for my criticisms as well as my refusal to bow to this attempt at using the default trust removal as leverage to force me to remove the rating.

hmm i consider you trustworthy and you are on my trust list but this i just dont believe this (and yes i have read all the important threads about it).

And you shouldn't. It's just another conspiracy he made up to try help his argument.

The very fact that you do vigorously refute my accusations with marginalizing statements attempting to associate me with paranoia and ancient alien reptoid type stuff demonstrates that you feel a need to refute it to protect yourself. If it was untrue then my arguments should fail on their own and you shouldn't need to constantly use marginalizing statements like this would you? There needs to be no conspiracy involved, only perfectly organic nepotism, and a distaste for being criticized.

A lot of big words there.  I'd say that the reason staff call you a liar is because you've been proven a liar many times.   

None of the staff have ever accused me of being a liar, just you. They just feel I should be punished for criticizing them (just like you).

[onemorebtc]

In short the staff blew this incident out of proportion in order to use it to punish me for my criticisms as well as my refusal to bow to this attempt at using the default trust removal as leverage to force me to remove the rating.

hmm i consider you trustworthy and you are on my trust list but this i just dont believe this (and yes i have read all the important threads about it).

Only they didn't just remove me from the default trust, they also invented then gave me trust exclusions from two very high ranking users (I am guessing probably Theymos and Hilariousandco but I don't know, it is not transparent) which basically then nuked the feedback I had actually earned, not just something I was granted like default trust.

i dont understand what you mean.
how did they remove your feedback on other accounts?

What part about it don't you believe? Of course from the outside you would not be able to tell much different, but I see it in the form of ignored reports, my own posts being reported and acted upon for minor things like 2 year old bumps I forgot to delete,

i dont see any reason why you should be treated better than anyone else. so i think its ok when your posts are reported just like anyone elses.

and the hostility some of the staff clearly show for me in the way they talk to/about me. The staff refuse to even answer my private messages. The only staff I have ever got to reply to me was Maged and Badbear. While it may not be evident to you, it is evident to me. Why would I lie about this? What reason do I have to start all of this over nothing, damaging my trust ranking and pissing people off, what do I get out of it other than pointing out this abuse?

to be honest i think you are more hostile than staff in your writings. not a problem for me, but i never saw anything bad from mods against you - they stated their opinion and act that way. its their right

Trust exclusions are a new feature Theymos added days after the Armis incident and I got to be the very first use of it. Under this system anyone can add ~username to their trust list and exclude a user. This would be fine with me if that was all it did, however it does much more. When someone like Theymos or other high ranking staff put you in their trust exclusion, they basically make everyone within the default trust system no longer trust you, even if they explicitly add you to trust, or trust some one who also trusts you. If a higher ranking user in the trust calculation excludes you then it will negate the trust of any lower ranking members withing the trust tree. So even though I have 3 people on the level two trust who have me in their trust list, I still come up as -2 ranked in the default trust. In effect this removes trust I actually worked to earn, not just some special granted privilege/responsibility of default trust (which I never asked for and was never explained to me).

Trust exclusions are EVEN WORSE than default trust negatives, because they allow the user who does this to remain anonymous and will eventually just result in an environment where we once again suffer form users like VOD who use the exclusion to anonymously nuke the trust of lower ranked users. IMO trust exclusions as designed to cascade down the trust tree are a step in the WRONG direction.

at first glance i think this is a good feature.
imagine an old user who has left much good feedback but trusts one guy who turned evil. as he dont come online often its a good thing thats its possible to remove it from the top.

this does not remove anything and dont take away anything you have earned.

as no one ever said they made this change because of you please dont make up conspiracy theories...

[Vod]

None of the staff have ever accused me of being a liar, just you. They just feel I should be punished for criticizing them (just like you).

hilariousandco just called you a liar, and he is on staff.  See how you lie?  

And you shouldn't. It's just another conspiracy he made up to try help his argument.

[TECSHARE]

i dont see any reason why you should be treated better than anyone else. so i think its ok when your posts are reported just like anyone elses.

I am not asking to be treated better than anyone else. It is just clear to me they ALWAYS have time to point or any infractions I have made, and never have any time to reply to my reports, messages, etc, and are willing to enforce rules upon me they are also not willing to enforce upon others.

to be honest i think you are more hostile than staff in your writings. not a problem for me, but i never saw anything bad from mods against you - they stated their opinion and act that way. its their right

You might interpret me being critical as being hostile, but I do not agree. People should be free to be critical of staff or anyone on this forum without fearing intimidation and use of the trust system to extort people into complying with dictates.

at first glance i think this is a good feature.
imagine an old user who has left much good feedback but trusts one guy who turned evil. as he dont come online often its a good thing thats its possible to remove it from the top.

this does not remove anything and dont take away anything you have earned.

as no one ever said they made this change because of you please dont make up conspiracy theories...

It did take what I have earned. I spent 3 YEARS here trading, and making sure everyone I traded with was treated fairly and got everything they paid for and was happy (not as easy as it sounds). But adding me to the trust exclusion they make any new user using the default trust not see a large portion of my trust ratings, and significantly reduces my overall trust rating calculation. I NEVER SAID HE MADE IT JUST FOR ME, now you are just making things up and claiming that I said things I didn't. You might think this system is great now but just give it a few months after some of the higher ranking users learn that it is possible to take retribution upon lower ranked users with almost complete anonymity from everyone except for the staff. Imagine VOD's behavior for example if no one ever had any way to know he was abusing the trust system...

None of the staff have ever accused me of being a liar, just you. They just feel I should be punished for criticizing them (just like you).

hilariousandco just called you a liar, and he is on staff.  See how you lie?  

And you shouldn't. It's just another conspiracy he made up to try help his argument.

I don't see the word liar in there but ok. He may be implying it, but he so far hasn't straight up accused me of being a liar. Keep trying to grief, I am sure it will make you look more responsible.

[Wardrick]

With this system, I could see large scams being pulled off because it would give members who haven't proved their legitimacy a high trust score. I think it would be misused by people who are friends and want to add each other to the trust list for added respect (Idk if it would work like this since you say it's random, or if you can go in and choose as well).

[hilariousandco]

The very fact that you do vigorously refute my accusations with marginalizing statements attempting to associate me with paranoia and ancient alien reptoid type stuff demonstrates that you feel a need to refute it to protect yourself. If it was untrue then my arguments should fail on their own and you shouldn't need to constantly use marginalizing statements like this would you? There needs to be no conspiracy involved, only perfectly organic nepotism, and a distaste for being criticized.

Lol. Exagerate much? Yes you do. Your arguments have failed multiple times but you keep repeating them like a loon and expect to get different results (definition of insanity according to Einstein). You do love to use bizarre twisted logic and this is the kind of nonsense crazy conspiracytards come out with when they know they haven't got a reasonable point. And guess what? You've become one as I said from the very start. Everything you are saying is fabrication to try validate your point. You are wrong. There is no staff conspiracy to protect their money or silence you for criticising them you simply just abused the feedback system in an attempt to get your own way with amis and on your own terms (which you admitted) and that's it, but you have quite clearly lost the plot now.

Trust exclusions are EVEN WORSE than default trust negatives, because they allow the user who does this to remain anonymous and will eventually just result in an environment where we once again suffer form users like VOD who use the exclusion to anonymously nuke the trust of lower ranked users. IMO trust exclusions as designed to cascade down the trust tree are a step in the WRONG direction.

They're not anonymous. theymos and BadBear negated you. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full

What part about it don't you believe? Of course from the outside you would not be able to tell much different, but I see it in the form of ignored reports, my own posts being reported and acted upon for minor things like 2 year old bumps I forgot to delete,

i dont see any reason why you should be treated better than anyone else. so i think its ok when your posts are reported just like anyone elses.

He reported something that wasn't against the rules. Basically what he wanted was for staff to abuse their power and bend the rules to remove and silence amis' posts that he didn't like. Old bumps are against the rules and should be removed so his point does nothing but to prove how he'll bring anything up to justify himself.
 

[onemorebtc]

i dont see any reason why you should be treated better than anyone else. so i think its ok when your posts are reported just like anyone elses.

I am not asking to be treated better than anyone else. It is just clear to me they ALWAYS have time to point or any infractions I have made, and never have any time to reply to my reports, messages, etc, and are willing to enforce rules upon me they are also not willing to enforce upon others.

i have never received any answer to any of my reports (ok i dont have reported much)
i think (i may be wrong with this though) that they always point out your infractions because you
1) are vocal about it
2) there where threads made in scam accusation against you.

did they come to your sale thread and post there?
and vod... vod is vod... like him or hate him but he does the community a favor in my eyes

to be honest i think you are more hostile than staff in your writings. not a problem for me, but i never saw anything bad from mods against you - they stated their opinion and act that way. its their right

You might interpret me being critical as being hostile, but I do not agree. People should be free to be critical of staff or anyone on this forum without fearing intimidation and use of the trust system to extort people into complying with dictates.

no you misunderstood me. everybody has the right and obligation to stand up  and to be critical.
but its a different between beeing critical and beeing passive aggressive. i think you are the latter because you feel deceived atm (at least thats how your wording enters my head - but i am not even a native speaker and my english is not really good).

at first glance i think this is a good feature.
imagine an old user who has left much good feedback but trusts one guy who turned evil. as he dont come online often its a good thing thats its possible to remove it from the top.

this does not remove anything and dont take away anything you have earned.

as no one ever said they made this change because of you please dont make up conspiracy theories...

It did take what I have earned. I spent 3 YEARS here trading, and making sure everyone I traded with was treated fairly and got everything they paid for. Bu adding me to the trust exclusion they make any new user using the default trust not see a large portion of my trust ratings, and significantly reduces my overall trust rating calculation. I NEVER SAID HE MADE IT JUST FOR ME, now you are just making things up and claiming that I said things I didn't. You might think this system is great now but just give it a few months after some of the higher ranking users learn that it is possible to take retribution upon lower ranked users with almost complete anonymity from everyone except for the staff. Imagine VOD's behavior for example if no one ever had any way to know he was abusing the trust system...

but everybody can see your ratings and the feedback you got. people like me who consider your feedback trustful may just add you but its the right of the forum owner (he decided who is staff) to think that it is not good for the forum.

btw vod is also on my trust list. but i dont give a shit about the color under any username.. if i want to deal with someone i read all of the feedback - untrusted and trusted.

but after pirateat40 there are very few people here which i'd trust with money...and no feedback or trust could change that

[Vod]

btw vod is also on my trust list. but i dont give a shit about the color under any username.. if i want to deal with someone i read all of the feedback - untrusted and trusted.

onemorebtc, I want to say thank you for trusting me, even after looking at my "untrusted feedback".  If you were to take that into account, I would be a pedophile rapist that is responsible for all the hacks ever in the bitcoin world! 

[onemorebtc]

btw vod is also on my trust list. but i dont give a shit about the color under any username.. if i want to deal with someone i read all of the feedback - untrusted and trusted.

onemorebtc, I want to say thank you for trusting me, even after looking at my "untrusted feedback".  If you were to take that into account, I would be a pedophile rapist that is responsible for all the hacks ever in the bitcoin world! 

my only problem with you is that your avatar is really confusing me

[Vod]

btw vod is also on my trust list. but i dont give a shit about the color under any username.. if i want to deal with someone i read all of the feedback - untrusted and trusted.

onemorebtc, I want to say thank you for trusting me, even after looking at my "untrusted feedback".  If you were to take that into account, I would be a pedophile rapist that is responsible for all the hacks ever in the bitcoin world! 

my only problem with you is that your avatar is really confusing me

Just a fat man licking his own boob.

Don't worry - I look nothing like my avatar.   

[onemorebtc]

my only problem with you is that your avatar is really confusing me

Just a fat man licking his own boob.

Don't worry - I look nothing like my avatar.   
[/quote]

puhhh good for you
i was raised virginal (chaste / chastely ?)... not easy to overcome that

[TECSHARE]

i dont see any reason why you should be treated better than anyone else. so i think its ok when your posts are reported just like anyone elses.

I am not asking to be treated better than anyone else. It is just clear to me they ALWAYS have time to point or any infractions I have made, and never have any time to reply to my reports, messages, etc, and are willing to enforce rules upon me they are also not willing to enforce upon others.

i have never received any answer to any of my reports (ok i dont have reported much)
i think (i may be wrong with this though) that they always point out your infractions because you
1) are vocal about it
2) there where threads made in scam accusation against you.

did they come to your sale thread and post there?
and vod... vod is vod... like him or hate him but he does the community a favor in my eyes

You are misunderstanding and missing the parts for the whole. It is not just about ignoring reports or acting upon every tiny infraction, it is more the fact that no one ever attempted to communicate or display these rules anywhere, then they expect me to follow them to a T. Then when I stumble into an inevitably grey area (because it is all grey since the rules are not written), punishment is fast and without discussion or debate. This is not just about how the staff treat me, but how they treat everyone in general that they don't see as part of their little club.

to be honest i think you are more hostile than staff in your writings. not a problem for me, but i never saw anything bad from mods against you - they stated their opinion and act that way. its their right

You might interpret me being critical as being hostile, but I do not agree. People should be free to be critical of staff or anyone on this forum without fearing intimidation and use of the trust system to extort people into complying with dictates.

no you misunderstood me. everybody has the right and obligation to stand up  and to be critical.
but its a different between beeing critical and beeing passive aggressive. i think you are the latter because you feel deceived atm (at least thats how your wording enters my head - but i am not even a native speaker and my english is not really good).

I do feel deceived. I was added to the default trust, no one bothered to ever post any of these rules I am expected to obey, no one explained to me my newfound responsibilities to default trust, I was juts assumed to know the rules by using the way the rest of the community uses them by example. If I take users like VOD as the example of how to act here as my only way to determine the rules, then that is not a very good standard that clearly is enforceable against people like me, but not against people like VOD.

at first glance i think this is a good feature.
imagine an old user who has left much good feedback but trusts one guy who turned evil. as he dont come online often its a good thing thats its possible to remove it from the top.

this does not remove anything and dont take away anything you have earned.

as no one ever said they made this change because of you please dont make up conspiracy theories...

It did take what I have earned. I spent 3 YEARS here trading, and making sure everyone I traded with was treated fairly and got everything they paid for. Bu adding me to the trust exclusion they make any new user using the default trust not see a large portion of my trust ratings, and significantly reduces my overall trust rating calculation. I NEVER SAID HE MADE IT JUST FOR ME, now you are just making things up and claiming that I said things I didn't. You might think this system is great now but just give it a few months after some of the higher ranking users learn that it is possible to take retribution upon lower ranked users with almost complete anonymity from everyone except for the staff. Imagine VOD's behavior for example if no one ever had any way to know he was abusing the trust system...

but everybody can see your ratings and the feedback you got. people like me who consider your feedback trustful may just add you but its the right of the forum owner (he decided who is staff) to think that it is not good for the forum.

btw vod is also on my trust list. but i dont give a shit about the color under any username.. if i want to deal with someone i read all of the feedback - untrusted and trusted.

but after pirateat40 there are very few people here which i'd trust with money...and no feedback or trust could change that

People are lazy. Alot of people don't bother clicking trusted feedback, or even clicking the trust page and they just look at the green numbers. you may know how the system works, but a LOT of people don't, nor do they care. they just go by what is easiest.

[Vod]

TOO LONG ; DIDN'T READ?

TECSHARE is just being proven a liar yet again.  He's angry at the forum and the staff because he was removed from defaulttrust, and he will post anything to get ANYONE to feel the same way he does.  

 

[TECSHARE]

TOO LONG ; DIDN'T READ?

TECSHARE is just being proven a liar yet again.  He's angry at the forum and the staff because he was removed from defaulttrust, and he will post anything to get ANYONE to feel the same way he does.  

 

3 paragraphs too much for you? At least I am trying to be constructive and improve the state of the community her by pointing out its flaws. What are you doing other than attempting to grief and ruin people's hard earned reputations?

[Vod]

TOO LONG ; DIDN'T READ?

TECSHARE is just being proven a liar yet again.  He's angry at the forum and the staff because he was removed from defaulttrust, and he will post anything to get ANYONE to feel the same way he does.  

 

3 paragraphs too much for you? At least I am trying to be constructive and improve the state of the community her by pointing out its flaws. What are you doing other than attempting to grief and ruin people's hard earned reputations?

I do whatever I can.  But I don't lie, like you do.  You think everyone else is to blame but yourself for you losing default trust.   

[TECSHARE]

TOO LONG ; DIDN'T READ?

TECSHARE is just being proven a liar yet again.  He's angry at the forum and the staff because he was removed from defaulttrust, and he will post anything to get ANYONE to feel the same way he does.  

 

3 paragraphs too much for you? At least I am trying to be constructive and improve the state of the community her by pointing out its flaws. What are you doing other than attempting to grief and ruin people's hard earned reputations?

I do whatever I can.  But I don't lie, like you do.  You think everyone else is to blame but yourself for you losing default trust.   

You do whatever you can to silence criticism of yourself, including abusing the default trust.

You are still unable to provide an example to support your baseless accusation. Funny how it always works that way with you. Lots of bullshit, zero substance.

[BadBear]

The vote is split fairly evenly, so this isn't very helpful. But I've decided to table this particular proposal for now.

It is split very evenly. Even the users who voted for each seem so. Interesting that BadBear didn't vote (unless he did on an alt account). I think the current system is the best solution but should be tweaked or kept a closer eye on the people who are on there and maybe limiting the number of users that each person can put on.

I didn't vote because while I'm not sure default trust is the best solution, I've decided I don't think this is either, so I decided to stay out of it. It's easy to say everyone should make their own trust lists, and they should, but fact is newbies won't know who to trust.

I guess it's time to stop reading this thread, it's no longer productive.

[Vod]

You are still unable to provide an example to support your baseless accusation.

Caught you in a lie yet again.  Been proven many times already.