Do you think Bitcoin should modify to POW + POS ? █████ Poll █████

[ijphlrnxewho]

Do you think Bitcoin should modify its source code from Proof of Work to Proof of Work (POW) and Proof of Stake (POS)?

Proof of Stake will give people a better reason to hold on to Bitcoin for years, and Bitcoin's price should be higher.

Please vote and reply to this thread why or why not.



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Best Proof of Stake coins. Voting Poll
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786993.0

[micky123]

i would love to have Bitcoin as POW + POS. That way my small stash of coins earn me something for keeping them. Investing BTC to earn some interest is just not possible in the current scenario, too many scammers and ponzi schemes around and i just dont feel safe investing atm.

Currently, i earn some kind of interest by loaning BTC to people, but the inherent risks are just too high, there is always the nagging fear that they might run away with my BTC. If i was earning some interest for my coins, i would very gladly leave them in my wallet and get out of loan sharking, lol! 

[kokojie]

Definite YES.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.

[freebeer2go]

Yes, POW is wasteful and insecure (as shown by all the attacked and dead POW altcoins)

[1Referee]

Definite YES.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.

Large mining farms all over the world are only heavily invested in hardware to do exact the same thing. It's not only China.

Changing something that Satoshi have created with a purpose is not a great idea.

[pawel7777]

i would love to have Bitcoin as POW + POS. That way my small stash of coins earn me something for keeping them. Investing BTC to earn some interest is just not possible in the current scenario, too many scammers and ponzi schemes around and i just dont feel safe investing atm.

Currently, i earn some kind of interest by loaning BTC to people, but the inherent risks are just too high, there is always the nagging fear that they might run away with my BTC. If i was earning some interest for my coins, i would very gladly leave them in my wallet and get out of loan sharking, lol! 

But that's one of the problems with PoS, it promotes hoarding and kills activity. Less activity leads to less adoption which leads to price decline.

Why non-innovative, ever-inflationary DOGE has similar market cap to innovative and non-inflationary NXT? Because people use DOGE, they tip, they gamble, they spend - that makes it alive.

ps I voted Yes, as I'd like the BTC devs to be more open-minded about implementing different protocol in the future, but I'm not convinced that PoS or PoW/PoS hybrid is the right solution.

[achimsmile]

But that's one of the problems with PoS, it promotes hoarding and kills activity. Less activity leads to less adoption which leads to price decline.

Marketcap isn't everything, it's merely a snapshot of how much people are willing to pay for a coin and can change rather quickly.

It's too early to judge that PoS kills activity. Quite the opposite: In Nxt, numbers of transactions per day steadily increased since July until today (around 3k per day now, which is not a lot compared to bitcoin, but still).

[kokojie]

Definite YES.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.

Large mining farms all over the world are only heavily invested in hardware to do exact the same thing. It's not only China.

Changing something that Satoshi have created with a purpose is not a great idea.

Oh yes, the almighty Satoshi can do no wrong? Then why the hell are we paying the core devs for? let's just keep using the version of Satoshi Client from day one. All the changes to Satoshi's code is not a great idea?

What does it matter where the miner is? my point is still valid, why are you letting profit crazy miners at who knows where, control the Bitcoin network, but you the owner and stakeholder of some Bitcoins, have ZERO influence in the Bitcoin network.

[newIndia]

As long as u r in bitcoin, u r stuck to PoW. U can not convince the majority of nodes any more to PoS. GooD Luck

[Flashman]

Definite YES.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.

SO BUY A FUCKING MINER.

"It's not MY responsibility to secure the network, but I'm going to whine about those who stepped up"

[pawel7777]

But that's one of the problems with PoS, it promotes hoarding and kills activity. Less activity leads to less adoption which leads to price decline.

Marketcap isn't everything, it's merely a snapshot of how much people are willing to pay for a coin and can change rather quickly.

It's too early to judge that PoS kills activity. Quite the opposite: In Nxt, numbers of transactions per day steadily increased since July until today (around 3k per day now, which is not a lot compared to bitcoin, but still).

I agree it's too early to make a judgement based on comparing any 2 coins. But you don't need empirical data to discuss differences between PoS/PoW designs. You only need common sense for that.

NXT is probably not the best example in this case. Since it's non-inflationary, the only income you get is your share in tx fees (afaik), which atm are very insignificant. Therefore from the average holder's point of view - it's probably better to use it and keep it alive.

Now what would happen if we switch BTC to PoS (with the same issuance model)? You think it would increase activity? You have @micky123 above saying he would stop investing. I know I wouldn't be keen on buying a coffee with my PoS coins and wouldn't touch my stash to tip or donate.

If your coins generate you more coins - you don't want to spend them. Simple.

Right now you have bitcoin hoarders, who (despite all the logic) wouldn't use their coins at all. If they're further incentivised to hoard - why would they change their approach?

[kokojie]

Definite YES.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.

SO BUY A FUCKING MINER.

"It's not MY responsibility to secure the network, but I'm going to whine about those who stepped up"

lol, not sure if serious. So in order to hold Bitcoin and have influence in the network, I should go ahead and spend more money to buy a electricity wasting, heat+noise generating machine. Then waste more electricity.

or you know, SWITCH TO FUCKING PROOF OF STAKE, and Bitcoin stakeholders will always have 100% control of the network, instead of relying on profit crazy miners, who probably don't hold any Bitcoin, and only dump Bitcoin as soon as they get it. Plus, mother nature will thank you, since no electricity is wasted with Proof of Stake.

[kokojie]

But that's one of the problems with PoS, it promotes hoarding and kills activity. Less activity leads to less adoption which leads to price decline.

Marketcap isn't everything, it's merely a snapshot of how much people are willing to pay for a coin and can change rather quickly.

It's too early to judge that PoS kills activity. Quite the opposite: In Nxt, numbers of transactions per day steadily increased since July until today (around 3k per day now, which is not a lot compared to bitcoin, but still).

I agree it's too early to make a judgement based on comparing any 2 coins. But you don't need empirical data to discuss differences between PoS/PoW designs. You only need common sense for that.

NXT is probably not the best example in this case. Since it's non-inflationary, the only income you get is your share in tx fees (afaik), which atm are very insignificant. Therefore from the average holder's point of view - it's probably better to use it and keep it alive.

Now what would happen if we switch BTC to PoS (with the same issuance model)? You think it would increase activity? You have @micky123 above saying he would stop investing. I know I wouldn't be keen on buying a coffee with my PoS coins and wouldn't touch my stash to tip or donate.

If your coins generate you more coins - you don't want to spend them. Simple.

Right now you have bitcoin hoarders, who (despite all the logic) wouldn't use their coins at all. If they're further incentivised to hoard - why would they change their approach?

Stop spreading your false logic. USD has 1% interest on savings accounts, does it stop anyone from spending USD?

[Flashman]

I should go ahead and spend more money to buy a electricity wasting, heat+noise generating machine. Then waste more electricity.

Right, and the government pays your transportation costs to go and do physical banking, and buys you new pants when you wear the pockets out with change.

Everything worth doing costs something, get over it.

[uvt9]

oh no not this subject again.

what a sad attempt to promote those shitty pos coins.

[kokojie]

I should go ahead and spend more money to buy a electricity wasting, heat+noise generating machine. Then waste more electricity.

Right, and the government pays your transportation costs to go and do physical banking, and buys you new pants when you wear the pockets out with change.

Everything worth doing costs something, get over it.

Sure, everything worth doing cost something, I could agree to that. But there is EXPENSIVE and CHEAP costs, yes?

You are insisting doing thing the expensive way, like building a railroad with shovels, while more advanced machinery is available to do it much more cheaply.

Not only you are choosing the expensive way PoW, it's also less secure and you let potentially non-stakeholding profit crazy miners control the Bitcoin network.

[pawel7777]

Stop spreading your retarded logic. USD has 1% interest on savings accounts, does it stop anyone from spending USD?

Sunshine, let's keep some manners here, OK?

1% interest is less than inflation, does it pay to hold?

Ever heard of negative interest rates? Why did they do that?

http://www.bloombergview.com/quicktake/negative-interest-rates

Are you now saying that deflation is good for economy?

Besides, USD is a legal tender, so people will be spending it even if they don't want to. You can't really compare it to un-established crypto-currency.

[kokojie]

Stop spreading your retarded logic. USD has 1% interest on savings accounts, does it stop anyone from spending USD?

Sunshine, let's keep some manners here, OK?

1% interest is less than inflation, does it pay to hold?

Ever heard of negative interest rates? Why did they do that?

http://www.bloombergview.com/quicktake/negative-interest-rates

Are you now saying that deflation is good for economy?

Besides, USD is a legal tender, so people will be spending it even if they don't want to. You can't really compare it to un-established crypto-currency.

Are you saying deflation is not good for economy? How is this relevant anyway? Proof of Stake can do both inflationary and deflationary, you can take your pick. For example, with Bitcoin, the PoS system can be implemented as deflationary, since Bitcoin is deflationary.

[_mr_e]

But that's one of the problems with PoS, it promotes hoarding and kills activity. Less activity leads to less adoption which leads to price decline.

Marketcap isn't everything, it's merely a snapshot of how much people are willing to pay for a coin and can change rather quickly.

It's too early to judge that PoS kills activity. Quite the opposite: In Nxt, numbers of transactions per day steadily increased since July until today (around 3k per day now, which is not a lot compared to bitcoin, but still).

I agree it's too early to make a judgement based on comparing any 2 coins. But you don't need empirical data to discuss differences between PoS/PoW designs. You only need common sense for that.

NXT is probably not the best example in this case. Since it's non-inflationary, the only income you get is your share in tx fees (afaik), which atm are very insignificant. Therefore from the average holder's point of view - it's probably better to use it and keep it alive.

Now what would happen if we switch BTC to PoS (with the same issuance model)? You think it would increase activity? You have @micky123 above saying he would stop investing. I know I wouldn't be keen on buying a coffee with my PoS coins and wouldn't touch my stash to tip or donate.

If your coins generate you more coins - you don't want to spend them. Simple.

Right now you have bitcoin hoarders, who (despite all the logic) wouldn't use their coins at all. If they're further incentivised to hoard - why would they change their approach?

Stop spreading your false logic. USD has 1% interest on savings accounts, does it stop anyone from spending USD?

Exactly. And Nxt forging gets you something like 0.5%. It is far better and more profitable to use your nxt to invest or to spend. The goal of nxt forging is to have hundreds of nxt based businesses, all forging blocks to secure the network and protect their business with their running balance, rather then to have people getting rich off forging. For a smaller forger, forging allows you to have quite a few free transactions on the network.

[QuestionAuthority]

Definite YES.

You don't let some miner from China control your personal finance, why let miners control your Bitcoin network? Bitcoin stakeholders should be the controller of Bitcoin network, not some random profit crazy mining farm from China. The PoW miner's only intention and purpose is to extract value out of Bitcoin eco-system.

Those damn Chinese! All they know how to do is make everything Walmart sells and mine Bitcoin. We should develop a virus that attacks fried rice and egg rolls. lol