Questions regarding MT.GOX fall and Willy the Bot.

[spacecakes]

Am I the only one that doesn't think its a coincidence that bitcoin rose from $100 to $1200 in the matter of months, pretty much only at the hands of MT GOX and a bot named Willy , only to have nearly the exact same amount of bitcoin that willy bought off the market go missing?

Doesn't it seem like they inflated the price before the big heist in order to make more off the scandal? Am I not getting something?

I mean those coins are gone... no one pays attention to them, they got split so far and wide, are we sure none got cashed out at high prices?

Couldn't someone just sell their wallets without moving the coins? Just sell the private keys? Say bitcoin is $1200 freshly inflated, and you give someone a "great deal" of 50% off? lol.

Something ain't right. Which one of those fat fucks lives in beverly hills right now? lol.

It only makes sense if you were in the same position. They had nearly the whole market, it was a monopoly to begin with. Maybe it wasn't Mark, but I believe the Japanese police when they say it's an inside job - 100%.

if creating hype and dumping it on unsuspecting victims was their game, well played. It sounds like an extremely common type of low cap fraud to me. Is it really beyond thought that they would try something like this on an unregulated currency?

Multiple layers of fraud lol. This is the most detailed description of the heist I can find from the police reports. Might be of interest.

http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0001825662

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

How can a single bot create such price explosion?

[arbitrage001]

How can a single bot create such price explosion?

Willy bot price manipulation is a myth created by half-asses journalist.

[NUFCrichard]

A bot inflated the price, then mt gox got hacked. I don't really see the connection though, maybe the subsequent fall makes sense but not the rise before the hack, unless it wad a really crazy plan where they knew they could take the coins at will but chose to wait, inflate the market at their own risk, then steal and sell out!

[conizer14]

I second the BS called on the so called price bot.

It makes a good story to add further greynesss to a failed business' operations.

[Moonpig]

Couldn't someone just sell their wallets without moving the coins? Just sell the private keys? Say bitcoin is $1200 freshly inflated, and you give someone a "great deal" of 50% off? lol.

No, because if the person who bought them didn't import them to an address in his control the person who sold them would still have access to the original keys. If you don't control the private keys you don't own the bitcoin... or someone else still jointly owns them  .

[botany]

I second the BS called on the so called price bot.

It makes a good story to add further greynesss to a failed business' operations.

The failed business relates to the hacked coins.
The bot is related to the price run up of bitcoin.
One cannot mitigate the other.

[smoothie]

I could see a bot being setup at gox to do this by mark or someone near mtgox's operations to buy bitcoin with 0 real fiat in the account and credit people's account to make it appear sellers of btc had access to the fiat in their account as the willy bot bought bitcoins.

This is possible.

Why else would MTGOX have liquidity issues to allow fiat withdrawals for 8+ months? 

[JerryCurlzzz]

I'm not saying that Willy didn't exist, but I do think that people give it way too much credit, either way. Willy could not have singlehandedly caused the bubble action on Chinese exchanges.

[medUSA]

How can a single bot create such price explosion?

I read about Willy a long time ago. Don't quote me on this.

Willy is not a normal trading bot, Willy can buy and sell (mostly buy I think) bitcoin off the market without depositing any fiat. It bought coins regularly and at any price. It couldn't create a price explosion, I believe it created a self-fueling momentum which made other traders buy at an inflated price.

[BTCreward]

How can a single bot create such price explosion?

Willy bot price manipulation is a myth created by half-asses journalist.

This. Most of the "journalists" reporting on bitcoin are giving both bitcoin and journalism a bad name.

The willie bot was nothing more then something that allowed large investors aka whales to buy large amounts of bitcoin in a somewhat orderly fashion.

There is no conspiracy

[TheButterZone]

Willy has been freed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQyskCEPs

[pattu1]

How can a single bot create such price explosion?

I read about Willy a long time ago. Don't quote me on this.

Willy is not a normal trading bot, Willy can buy and sell (mostly buy I think) bitcoin off the market without depositing any fiat. It bought coins regularly and at any price. It couldn't create a price explosion, I believe it created a self-fueling momentum which made other traders buy at an inflated price.

Buying without depositing any fiat.... is definitely price manipulation.
It was only a matter of time before it was discovered.

[spacecakes]

Pure speculation I admit, but rightfully just I feel. I can't help but feel like they inflated the price to make a good scam a great scam. I'm pretty sure if willy was used for legitimate purposes then we would be seeing transfers of large amounts of bitcoin from willy's account to others yes?

I mean it kind of makes sense that if the bitcoins were getting bought up with fiat currency that wasn't present, that would mean they wouldn't have the necessary fiat currency to enable withdraws in alot of the transactions that took place (who ever was lucky enough to sell BTC to willy got fake fiat, their Mtgox balance was basically fake at that point) It only makes sense that as more and more people cash out, that they wouldn't be able to fund all the transactions when BTC was 1000+ and nearly everyone was at a profit, the fiat simply wasn't there.

Then poof, BTC transactions halted, "we were hacked due to transaction malleability", which was pretty much proven to be a bold faced lie, 650k coins go missing, and its nearly the same total that willy bought?

Also - I agree with moonpig about the private keys, didn't think of that, thank you.

I saw a point brought up about how Willy couldn't of caused the hype on chinese exchanges, I think either Willy caused interest to spark due to the rapidly rising prices he was causing, or that the rally caused who ever controlled Willy to realize that now is the best time to do this sort of thing, because the added attention and fresh investment funds from new traders would help the artificial rally along.

Most important question I have to ask, I'm truly interested here.
I can't help but feel like A FEW of those coins got cashed out without anyone noticing. What if they all just moved to BTCChina and got sold there over the last 6 months? Is there anyone still following this shit? I feel liek they are long gone, they split the coins up into thousands of wallets, unless someone has a bot script watching stolen coins (which I wouldn't doubt actually), I don't see how we would even know if 100 of those coins got cashed out. 650k coins, whose going to notice 100? Is there still a group of people following stolen coins?

I feel like stolen coins get forgotten about after 6 months and end up in circulation again. Can anyone shed light on this? Id love to hear.

Thanks everyone for the riveting convo!

[medUSA]

I feel like stolen coins get forgotten about after 6 months and end up in circulation again. Can anyone shed light on this? Id love to hear.

Stolen coins are split into smaller amounts and mixed. I do not believe they can ever be traced as long as their are mixing services around. Anyone watching are forced to give up the trace because of the time and work involved, and soon forgotten.