Bitcoin Jesus ministry not to preach from American soil

[QuestionAuthority]

Have you all seen this: http://www.coindesk.com/roger-ver-denied-us-visa-attend-miami-bitcoin-conference/

Why would the government do this other than to mess with him? Is it because of his connection to Bitcoin or because he renounced his citizenship? If you renounce your citizenship you can't go to the U.S. anymore? I suggest we all mail a cup of fresh urine to the U.S. senate in protest with a label that says, "piss off".

[1714771203]

1714771203

[BitCoinNutJob]

Its pretty messed up, no free speech in USA if its bitcoin.  If its renounced citizenship they shouldnt be taxing him anymore.

[Frijj]

If you renounce your citizenship you can't go to the U.S. anymore? I suggest we all mail a cup of fresh urine to the U.S. senate in protest with a label that says, "piss off".

I've read some horror stories online before of people being treated like shit once they renounced their citizenship, though maybe ha has some other connections they don't like?

[Flashman]

It would not surprise me actually if it was being convicted of a crime that was causing his visa refusal. I have known people refused entry to US at age 50+ because of a charge for shoplifting at 18. When you're a US citizen, they have to come up with a lot more to refuse to let you back in, but if you're not, they don't need much.

[RixDollar]

What a pathetic and ridiculous decision.

[QuestionAuthority]

It would not surprise me actually if it was being convicted of a crime that was causing his visa refusal. I have known people refused entry to US at age 50+ because of a charge for shoplifting at 18. When you're a US citizen, they have to come up with a lot more to refuse to let you back in, but if you're not, they don't need much.

Dude, I got in a taxi the other day that I'm pretty sure was being driven by Osama Bin Laden. They will let anyone into this country and then give them an SBA loan. There's something else going on here and I think it's Bitcoin.

[QuestionAuthority]

Really? Seriously? Someone voted "I love em"!

Explain yourself Satan worshiper.

[pedrog]

LOL

Got be careful with them illegal immigrants.

[leopard2]

hilarious; he should just stop paying US taxes; if he is not able to enter the US, he will not get in hot water for that. 

[bitkilo]

I had a American friend here in Australia and he was not even aloud to go back and visit his sick mother before she died due to the fact he got caught growing a small bit of weed here.
He was left a man without a country he used to say.

[bitcoinarnold]

He's a fucking idiot.

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/press-releases/2002/verPlea.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SCAw264qM

[pedrog]

He's a fucking idiot.

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/press-releases/2002/verPlea.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SCAw264qM

Indeed...

[QuestionAuthority]

He's a fucking idiot.

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/press-releases/2002/verPlea.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4SCAw264qM

If the U.S. blocked all idiots from being in the country there wouldn't be a government.

[stevenh512]

Why would the government do this other than to mess with him? Is it because of his connection to Bitcoin or because he renounced his citizenship? If you renounce your citizenship you can't go to the U.S. anymore?

It's because he clearly and admittedly renounced his citizenship for the purpose of not paying U.S. taxes. That bolded part is important. We don't need any conspiracy theories here, it's been U.S. policy for many years that if you renounce your citizenship for the purpose of not paying U.S. taxes you are not to be admitted back into the country. Eduardo Saverin (co-founder of Facebook) is likely in the same boat, since he also clearly renounced his citizenship to avoid taxes.

Of course, it could also have something to do with the fact that Ver was convicted of selling explosives on eBay, that's something I'd think most governments (not just the U.S.) wouldn't take too lightly.. but no, let's forget about any plausible explanations based on long-standing U.S. laws and policies and just assume it's a conspiracy against Bitcoin.

[QuestionAuthority]

Why would the government do this other than to mess with him? Is it because of his connection to Bitcoin or because he renounced his citizenship? If you renounce your citizenship you can't go to the U.S. anymore?

It's because he clearly and admittedly renounced his citizenship for the purpose of not paying U.S. taxes. That bolded part is important. We don't need any conspiracy theories here, it's been U.S. policy for many years that if you renounce your citizenship for the purpose of not paying U.S. taxes you are not to be admitted back into the country. Eduardo Saverin (co-founder of Facebook) is likely in the same boat, since he also clearly renounced his citizenship to avoid taxes.

Of course, it could also have something to do with the fact that Ver was convicted of selling explosives on eBay, that's something I'd think most governments (not just the U.S.) wouldn't take too lightly.. but no, let's forget about any plausible explanations based on long-standing U.S. laws and policies and just assume it's a conspiracy against Bitcoin.

But he owns MemoryDealers in Silicon Valley. How can he avoid paying taxes with a business based in San Jose? He still pays taxes.

[botany]

hilarious; he should just stop paying US taxes; if he is not able to enter the US, he will not get in hot water for that. 

If he renounced his citizenship, does he have to pay taxes?

[BADecker]

Have you all seen this: http://www.coindesk.com/roger-ver-denied-us-visa-attend-miami-bitcoin-conference/

Why would the government do this other than to mess with him? Is it because of his connection to Bitcoin or because he renounced his citizenship? If you renounce your citizenship you can't go to the U.S. anymore? I suggest we all mail a cup of fresh urine to the U.S. senate in protest with a label that says, "piss off".

When you look at the laws regarding citizenship in the United States, you are only a citizen if one of three things fits your circumstances. These are:
1. You were born in the United States;
2. You were naturalized;
3. You said you are a citizen but you lied, and government accepted your lie.

That's about it. Maybe none of us are citizens. Maybe not even residents. Certainly not in our capacities as human beings. Maybe we as humans are only domiciled here.

There is question as to whether or not you were born in the United States, even if you were. Why? Simply because there are several definitions of the term "United States." The term is ambiguous, and you probably didn't understand - and don't understand now - the legalease (legal meanings of) regarding which "United States" you were talking about when you renounced your citizenship. Ambiguity is not allowed in law. Besides this, the definition that you would fall under when you were born is not the definition that applies to you when you are entering the country, and it is not the definition that you renounced when you renounced your citizenship.

In other words, when you present a passport or other documentation to port authorities, and they say, "This looks like you." And then they ask you, "Is this you?" What is your answer? You say, "Yes, it's me." What you have just done is turned yourself into a piece of paper, a passport, or some other documentation. And, since you are still a human being, the word "you" when they ask, "Is this you," is plural, meaning both you, the human, and you, the documentation.

Your answer should have been, "That is not me. I am a man/woman. As a man/woman born in the United States, I claim right of entry." Then, if they don't let you enter, you can file suit on the individual in his/her private capacity, who wouldn't let you enter.

Take a look at the info in the links listed at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=916456.msg10079836#msg10079836, and see that government's determination of illegality about anything doesn't apply to you except if you are in government, or if you want it to. It becomes applicable to you when you say, "Yes, that's me," regarding some government documentation.

In particular, watch the 10 videos at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOkAHRzuiOA&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D.

[Flashman]

Many other civilised countries have income tax laws to the effect that, if you are resident there 6 months and a day, then you owe income tax there. Less than that period may apply if you have been in their country fewer than 6 months, but not as long in any other one country, and maintain what appears to be a principal residence there. This standard even applies to citizens such that, should they be resident abroad for 6+ months, they are not resident in country of citizenship and only owe income tax locally.

The US however, takes the view that US citizen income is taxable wherever the citizen is resident. i.e. income taxed by host country, then again by US. Further, in order to prevent "tax abuse" the US has forced agreements upon major nations to fully report banking activities and amounts of all US citizens to IRS. This is so onerous a requirement that no foreign banks want to do business with anyone they might suspect of being a US citizen. Anyway, upshot of all this, is that many US citizens who have settled elsewhere and have expectations of remaining there, are wanting to revoke citizenship. US calls this "for tax evasion" purposes, no shit, who wants to be double taxed, and have raised renunciation fees to something astronomical in recent months.

The weird thing is, that officially, you cannot have dual citizenship with the US, it's not permitted to hold any other citizenship and be a US citizen. This should mean that if you acquire citizenship of another country, you should automatically not be a US citizen... in fact, if you are a citizen in a country, say you take Bulgarian citizenship (No connotation implied) and you fall afoul of their justice system, get framed by corrupt officials, whatever, and go to US Embassy/Consulate for help, they will tell you tough shit, you're a citizen there, so they can't help.... meanwhile IRS regards you as fully fledged US citizen and will still want income tax!

Anyway, the most tenacious tentacle of US citizenship appears to be the IRS, they grab and hold and are with you wherever, no matter what other residence or citizenship you take up. So to hack that off, you have to do the $$$$ renunciation, even if, by all laws and statutes you invalidated your US citizenship already... then of course, since that is the final connection it's automatically "For tax evasion"  

edit: dammit, not tenuous, tenacious, that's the word...

[QuestionAuthority]

The last two responses were stellar. You each win a gold star.

[Gumbork]

poor btc jesus.