Bitcoin Jesus ministry not to preach from American soil

[HELP.org]

Yes, you have several properties listen in your name in California.  Sell those and reapply.  Your rights in those properties are being protected by "the violent ones" anyway so I am sure you don't want that.

They were already listed for sale last year,  and that has no bearing on the visa issue.
Foreigners can own real estate in the USA.
Obama himself admits that they have a monopoly on violence:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D64KcZsD82E
I don't support using violence on peaceful people.

You don't seem to understand that you can't pick out one or 2 facts, these things are determined by looking at the entire picture.  You are also not going to get a complete answer by asking someone through a window at an embassy or entry point.

Apparently:
-You have property and other ties to the US.
-You run an offshore tax haven business
-You have citizenship in more than one country
-You have been in jail for explosives.
-You have made many statements about federal agents that could be taken as a threat
-You have renounced your citizenship
-You have a radical/fantasy agenda

Plus:
-Terrorism is a hot button issue
-Several Police officers have recently been ambushed and the statements they made before they did are similar to statements you make on a regular basis.

Like it or not, irrespective of what Ben Franklin said, people are going to be concerned about security above any of the issue you have.  You can complain all you want how this is wrong but it isn't going to change it.  if people feel threatened they will do anything and everything else goes out the window.

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[Flashman]

I would hazard a guess that you'd also score "more points", if you were citizen of the country you had "permanent ties" with and applied with that passport. Possibly the immigration droid is programmed to think that if you are presenting a St Kitts and Nevis passport, your proof of residence/employment ties should have something to do with St Kitts and Nevis.

[MemoryDealers]

I would like to point out a few more things:

1. The law states I only need to have ties to a country outside of the USA.  It doesn't need to be my country of citizenship.

2. In addition to 9 years of history with Japan, I already have strong ties to St Kitts at this point.  In St Kitts, I bought a substantial amount of real estate, have local friends, started my own local business, and have participated deeply with other local businesses.

[iheartubuntu]

It is more likely due to the combination of renouncing citizenship. running an offshore tax shelter business, and keeping citizenship in 2 different countries. 

I know many people with dual citizenships. My wife loves her country, but got US citizenship so she could get a decent job here in the states. Running businesses overseas is not a crime. In fact many people run businesses in places like Puerto Rico for their tax benefits. Nothing wrong with that. this isnt the bible and the eye of the needle story here, so Id say Rogers yearly tax bill alone will be larger than 99% of the average Americans lifetime of taxes. That alone should give Roger a free pass to travel in the states.

The real prob is the absolute idiots running Homeland Security, ISCIS, Immigration, etc. Whatever new name our politricksters like to call it after the previous ones F something up. I dealt with them when bringing my wife to the states. Downtown Los Angeles. I got a letter saying my wife was to immediately report to Dept Homeland Security and get ready to be deported. We filed our immigration papers properly, sent them in properly and the government screwed up some of our paperwork. They were in the wrong. We headed to downtown to speak with whomever we could. Waited in line 3 hours to get in (funny how we were the only ones who spoke english, dont we have any standards anymore?) then waited another hour to reach the front desk. The large lady behind the counter with her beautiful long nails, immaculate hair style had no care for anyone in the whole building except herself. We showed her the proof that the government screwed everything up and I wanted her to fix it. She said "all this looks gooood to meee. I dont see what the problem is. looks like you done screwed up." I have no idea how these people working for the government get their jobs. Absolutely ridiculous. She refused to say the government was at fault and she threatened to have us arrested for asking to speak with her supervisor. We called our local state representative and he listened to us and promised everything would be fine. We had our case expedited and instead of waiting months, we came back in a week for an interview and found out that lady that helped us had since been fired.

In Rogers case, if he had an educated person behind the desk helping him, if that person spoke to others in the building and just looked at the docs, Roger would have been fine to enter. The people they look for are the ones with zero connections to home and become a flight risk to stay in the US and become a financial burden on the state. Roger is none of those.

This was a political move against Roger no doubt about it.

[freedombit]

The government doesn't do anything: people do.

I agree with Help.org that we should not lump all government employees into one category.

But on the same note, we also should not lump all people into one category:

Like it or not, irrespective of what Ben Franklin said, people are going to be concerned about security above any of the issue you have.  You can complain all you want how this is wrong but it isn't going to change it.  if people feel threatened they will do anything and everything else goes out the window.

Now for my rant:

Not all people are going to be concerned about security above any other issue. Some of the greatest people in history were willing to sacrifice their own security for a greater cause. In fact, one might argue that the members of the US Military AND the many people they are fighting are giving up security and risking their lives for a greater cause. The problem is both sides seem to feel that they are "defensive."

But it is probably true that many people will be concerned about their security above any other issue. I am a little bit like this WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY I THINK CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE US GOV are over stepping their bounds. I am fearful that the mere fact that I am writing these words likely puts me higher someone's list. History has shown those lists are out there. And why? Because my opinion differs from theirs? Yet - they (the individual or group of individuals) can listen to me, watch my bank account, know EVERYTHING about me, and use anything I do against me; all behind a cloak without ever having to risk the same of themselves. This is dangerous because it can easily lead to (if it hasn't already) lead to a puppet government.

Yes, I am concerned for my security. I would much rather have a government that carries a big stick, but remains peaceful. We have the big stick, why do we have to go poking other countries with it?


One more thought: more people die from cancer than terrorist attacks.

I love the ideas that the USA was founded on. It saddens me greatly each time we lose or give a bit of that up in the name of greed, fear or laziness.

[HELP.org]

The fact that someone renounces their citizenship is probably enough to deny them reentry.  in any case there is no obligation to give a non-citizen a reason.  Just like if I walked up to a another country's embassy and started demanding things.  They owe me nothing.

As for fears of terrorism, etc., threats don't have to be rational, just perceived.  many more people die on the highways than on planes.  When a plane goes down it is a huge issue but that many people die every weekend on the highways. 

if some government employee is faced with the decision of blocking entry to Ver or letting him in they are obviously going to choose blocking him for any one or more of the reasons I listed.  That government employee has nothing to gain by approving his entry and will face problems if something goes wrong.

[jbreher]

if some government employee is faced with the decision of blocking entry to Ver or letting him in they are obviously going to choose blocking him for any one or more of the reasons I listed.  That government employee has nothing to gain by approving his entry and will face problems if something goes wrong.

Which is indicative of a flawed system.

eta: When was the last time a failure of a governmental employee resulted in that individual 'facing problems'? I don't know about the little people on the front lines, but screwups on a monumental scale seem to typically come with increased authority, budgets, and pay.

[HELP.org]

if some government employee is faced with the decision of blocking entry to Ver or letting him in they are obviously going to choose blocking him for any one or more of the reasons I listed.  That government employee has nothing to gain by approving his entry and will face problems if something goes wrong.

Which is indicative of a flawed system.

eta: When was the last time a failure of a governmental employee resulted in that individual 'facing problems'? I don't know about the little people on the front lines, but screwups on a monumental scale seem to typically come with increased authority, budgets, and pay.

No kidding the system is flawed.  All civilizations in all of history have been flawed.  Your Waco video shows the system is flawed.  Everybody knows that.  That does not mean you completely eliminate the system and replace it with some fantasy system based on meme's.  You don't link the problems with your so-called proposed solution.  The point of the other link is to show that anyone can sit there and point to a bunch of Reddit posts and meme's but it is completely different story when you try to implement things in the real world. 

[HELP.org]

Every time I see a post from Milly Bitcoin, I just want to do this:

I don't do anything when I see your posts because they are worthless.  You go around calling people "trolls" like some teenager and you complain government is too big.  No kidding, everybody knows that.  Comcast is too big too and getting support is like contacting a government office.  So what about that?

As for a foreigner trying to get in, the US has no obligation whatsoever to accommodate someone or answer their complaints.  Just like if I went to the Saudi Arabia border and started complaining if they won't let in.

[iheartubuntu]

No kidding the system is flawed.  All civilizations in all of history have been flawed.  Your Waco video shows the system is flawed.  Everybody knows that.  That does not mean you completely eliminate the system and replace it with some fantasy system based on meme's.  You don't link the problems with your so-called proposed solution.  The point of the other link is to show that anyone can sit there and point to a bunch of Reddit posts and meme's but it is completely different story when you try to implement things in the real world.  

I have to disagree here. Real change happens when people work together for a belief of something better. For example if we all collectively decided to stop paying taxes. How would the impact the country? There would have to be immediate dialog. Obamacare? Maybe its good for a handful of helpless people, but its a burden on everyone else. What if people marched and forced all of congress to use Obamacare also? Change would happen pretty quick. Usually nothing happens because there are always naysayers and those that dont hold up to their word.

We are starting to see breaking points around the country and around the globe against the government cartels that run things. People are grouping together to find our own real solutions. Bitcoin is one of them.

[HELP.org]

No kidding the system is flawed.  All civilizations in all of history have been flawed.  Your Waco video shows the system is flawed.  Everybody knows that.  That does not mean you completely eliminate the system and replace it with some fantasy system based on meme's.  You don't link the problems with your so-called proposed solution.  The point of the other link is to show that anyone can sit there and point to a bunch of Reddit posts and meme's but it is completely different story when you try to implement things in the real world. 

I have to disagree here. Real change happens when people work together for a belief of something better. For example if we all collectively decided to stop paying taxes. How would the impact the country? There would have to be immediate dialog. Obamacare? Maybe its good for a handful of helpless people, but its a burden on everyone else. What if people marched and forced all of congress to use Obamacare also? Change would happen pretty quick.

We are starting to see breaking points around the country and around the globe against the government cartels that run things. People are grouping together to find our own real solutions. Bitcoin is one of them.

Yes, like that guy in the video about Waco.  What he did was push for a presidential order to protect the FBI agents for whisltleblowing and he started whistleblowers.org with the money he got from the court settlement.  He didn't run around like some teenager and say the whole system should be abolished and that we should use a system people used when people lived in caves. 

There is zero chance that people will group together and eliminate the "state."   There is a chance that Bitcoin will force the hands of some of those in power and change some things.  However, when someone reasonable proposes some changes this is the way some Bitcoiners react:

http://prestonbyrne.com/2014/08/19/interview-on-lets-talk-bitcoin-no-137-the-eye-of-the-beholder/

(You may notice the guy who suggested "hanging" Preston Byrne is the same clown complaining about raising the block size:  http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/).  This lunatic crap is really a problem for mass adoption and the screwballs are pushing out all the reasonable people.  Using Bitcoin to end war, threatening to hang people because they are not Libertarian enough, discussing Waco, Silk Road, etc. all have negative impacts on mass adoption and you see how the exchange rate keeps tanking even after Microsoft announced things.  The answer is not to elevate nut jobs like Ver, Shrem, free State Project, etc.  The answer is to push these people out so they are not associated with Bitcoin to the average person the street.   

[iheartubuntu]

The answer is to push these people out so they are not associated with Bitcoin to the average person the street.   

Wait, wait... YOU'RE the answer!

Sorry but in any walk of life... athlete, lawyer, gold miner, pencil pusher, whatever... you will find all sorts of people across the Dungeons & Dragons alignment scale. Theres no getting around that and IMO everyone has something to contribute.

[inBitweTrust]

The answer is to push these people out so they are not associated with Bitcoin to the average person the street.  

Bitcoin is an open source protocol which is open for anyone to interact with. You cannot push us out. Crypto-anarchists and cypherpunks gave birth to this technology and we will not be intimidated to leave or ignore the Raison d'être for bitcoin by coercive statists. You are free to use this technology along with us despite your disappointing philosophical and ethical beliefs. The Bitcoin ecosystem is a big tent and is open for everyone to benefit.

You disparage our ideology and principles but in reality should be grateful to the "fanatics" as we are the ones that will insure Bitcoin will survive and prosper. We aren't looking to scam anyone or looking for a quick buck but are in it for the long haul and will continue to support bitcoin as long as it stays true to its foundational principles.

[Flashman]

This is probably what the anti-Franco side bars sounded like during Spanish Civil War

[allthingsluxury]

Free speech should mean free speech.

[HELP.org]

The answer is to push these people out so they are not associated with Bitcoin to the average person the street.  

Bitcoin is an open source protocol which is open for anyone to interact with. You cannot push us out. Crypto-anarchists and cypherpunks gave birth to this technology and we will not be intimidated to leave or ignore the Raison d'être for bitcoin by coercive statists. You are free to use this technology along with us despite your disappointing philosophical and ethical beliefs. The Bitcoin ecosystem is a big tent and is open for everyone to benefit.

You disparage our ideology and principles but in reality should be grateful to the "fanatics" as we are the ones that will insure Bitcoin will survive and prosper. We aren't looking to scam anyone or looking for a quick buck but are in it for the long haul and will continue to support bitcoin as long as it stays true to its foundational principles.

No, you will be "pushed out" as more reasonable people get involved.   Not "pushed out" in the sense that you can't use it but pushed out by obscurity so that, for instance, the important Bitcoin conferences won't be dominated by nut jobs and agenda-pushers.  You are mistaken that the wing nuts will be the ones who ensure Bitcoin will prosper.  That may have been true early on but now it has turned into a detriment because they scare normal people away and make Bitcoin weaker.  Those people routinely overestimate the importance they have and the size of their market which is why they are the main source of pro-Bitcoin misinformation.  The anarcho-nut job market is not large enough to support companies like Coinbase, Circle, BitPay, and the many new companies that want to get involved.

The same think happened in the early days of the Internet you had people who insisted there would not be any ads on the Internet because it was for research.  Others claimed the Internet would be free from regulation, etc.  They thought that because they were the early pioneers that they would control things forever.  Remember when they all got together to turn the web pages black in response to promised censorship laws?  Not only did the people in power not care, the whole protest with black web pages had to be explained to them.  The same thing is playing out in Bitcoin.  The wing nuts are on the road to obscurity but they are doing damage at the moment.  You may think that once people do a Bitcoin transaction that they will be walking around with Ayn Rand books under their arm but I don't see that happening.

As far as being grateful to the early people, thanks for your effort and I hop you made money in the early days because you are on the road to nowhere.  Of course most will outgrow the nonsense and turn into normal people.  there is a commercial that runs on the 90's Sirius channel "You used to Rage Against the machine ... and now you rage against the washing machine" and they have someone yelling at a broken washing machine.   But Bitcoin is decentralized so I owe the early adopters nothing and they don't owe me anything either for promoting adoption or getting that mining ruling from FinCEN.

[inBitweTrust]

The anarcho-nut job market is not large enough to support companies like Coinbase, Circle, BitPay, and the many new companies that want to get involved.

You are misrepresenting my views as I have repeatedly stated that Bitcoin is for everyone and not just the "anarcho-nut job market ". We can all interact and benefit from the blockchain together.

The same think happened in the early days of the Internet you had people who insisted there would not be any ads on the Internet because it was for research.  Others claimed the Internet would be free from regulation, etc.  They thought that because they were the early pioneers that they would control things forever.  Remember when they all got together to turn the web pages black in response to promised censorship laws?  Not only did the people in power not care, the whole protest with black web pages had to be explained to them.  The same thing is playing out in Bitcoin.  The wing nuts are on the road to obscurity but they are doing damage at the moment.

I am fine with states , governments and foundations creating regulation. You seemed to be confused with the Anarchist position and our ethics. If people want to use a regulated bitcoin , than I encourage them to do so.... as long as they do not use violence to force me to agree with their policies.

Of course most will outgrow the nonsense and turn into normal people.

You seem to be under the impression that the cypher punks represented some idealist punk teens when it consisted of older cryptologists, mathematicians, and programmers. There is nothing to outgrow as many come into anarchist ideals from a lifetime of research and philosophical reflection. Do a bit of research before misrepresenting our history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitfield_Diffie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Hellman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28activist%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_C._May
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hughes_%28cypherpunk%29

[HELP.org]

You seem to be under the impression that the cypher punks represented some idealist punk teens when it consisted of older cryptologists, mathematicians, and programmers. There is nothing to outgrow as many come into anarchist ideals from a lifetime of research and philosophical reflection. Do a bit of research before misrepresenting our history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitfield_Diffie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Hellman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Chaum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gilmore_%28activist%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_C._May
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hughes_%28cypherpunk%29

I am talking about the Bitcoin nut jobs specifically.  There are many reasonable people involved in Bitcoin who embrace some of those ideals.  However, there is list of agenda-pushers and nut jobs involved in Bitcoin who routinely misrepresent things such as:  Ver, Vorhees, Shrem, Rassah, Tourianski, Popescu, Mayer, etc.  These are the people who are damaging Bitcoin's reputation and misrepresent what Bitcoin is.  They are the "Al Sharpton's" of Bitcoin and they attract the type of people who scare normal people away.  These are not the same type of people as those you list above.

[inBitweTrust]

I am talking about the Bitcoin nut jobs specifically.  There are many reasonable people involved in Bitcoin who embrace some of those ideals.  However, there is list of agenda-pushers and nut jobs involved in Bitcoin who routinely misrepresent things such as:  Ver, Vorhees, Shrem, Rassah, Tourianski, Popescu, Mayer, etc.  These are the people who are damaging Bitcoin's reputation and misrepresent what Bitcoin is.  They are the "Al Sharpton's" of Bitcoin and they attract the type of people who scare normal people away.  These are not the same type of people as those you list above.

We are all part of bitcoin. I understand it is discomforting for you to acknowledge their contributions to our ecosystem. They do not solely represent Bitcoin and neither does the Bitcoin Foundation. This is a open source collaborative effort where everyone has an equal opportunity to contribute or for media exposure. You just seem bitter that they get more attention than you think they deserve. You have just as much opportunity as them to get attention.

Rather than pout, why don't you take a more positive approach to promoting your agenda and join organizations like the Bitcoin Foundation?

[Flashman]

I am talking about the Bitcoin nut jobs specifically.  There are many reasonable people involved in Bitcoin who embrace some of those ideals.  However, there is list of agenda-pushers and nut jobs involved in Bitcoin who routinely misrepresent things such as:  Ver, Vorhees, Shrem, Rassah, Tourianski, Popescu, Mayer, etc.  These are the people who are damaging Bitcoin's reputation and misrepresent what Bitcoin is.  They are the "Al Sharpton's" of Bitcoin and they attract the type of people who scare normal people away.  These are not the same type of people as those you list above.

Awww c'mon embrace the diversity, some real characters involved in BTC, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sgg2MvAz8I and Mr Ipad Chain