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Author Topic: [ANN] Joinmarket - Coinjoin that people will actually use  (Read 84901 times)
belcher (OP)
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February 27, 2017, 07:13:46 PM
 #321

Is there anyway to get an idea of Joinmarket volumes (In terms of number of transactions or BTC)?
I think that transactions have dried up, due to higher transaction fees or other reasons. But I want to be sure about that...

Adlai has a project which searches for joinmarket transactions

https://github.com/adlai/cjhunt

If true, another thing that doesn't help regarding miner fees is that the incentives in joinmarket for miner fees are all screwed up, right now the taker essentially pays for everything.

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February 27, 2017, 07:45:07 PM
 #322

Mainly a call for any testers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/5wit3s/release_for_testing_of_new_joinmarketqt_binary/

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March 05, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
Last edit: March 05, 2017, 04:25:47 PM by jjacob
 #323

Hi,

I recently sent out a transaction and the final balance in my wallet is reflected properly when I use blocr.io as the blockchain source.
However, when I use bitcoin core, the change output of that particular transaction is not visible. I have run bitcoin-qt -rescan a couple of times, but the issue still persists. What is the way out of this?

Edit: Sorted out. The balance got updated once another transaction was done.


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March 09, 2017, 11:36:29 AM
 #324

Another update re: joinmarket-qt binaries:

https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/5yekko/added_windows_and_tailsdebian32_binaries_for_new/

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March 16, 2017, 04:04:15 AM
 #325

Are high transaction fees killing joinmarket volumes? Volumes seem to have dried up, at least in my experience.

Do we as a community have a preference for Bitcoin Core vs Bitcoin Unlimited? I know that it is a divisive topic, but can we configure Joinmarket to work with Bitcoin Unlimited as well?


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March 17, 2017, 04:54:05 PM
 #326

Update on electrum plugin:

https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/5zyn2h/electrum_plugin_update_a_few_extra_notes_in/

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April 15, 2017, 12:16:15 PM
 #327

New release

https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket/blob/master/doc/release-notes-0.2.3.md

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April 15, 2017, 02:40:00 PM
 #328

Are high transaction fees killing joinmarket volumes? Volumes seem to have dried up, at least in my experience.

Do we as a community have a preference for Bitcoin Core vs Bitcoin Unlimited? I know that it is a divisive topic, but can we configure Joinmarket to work with Bitcoin Unlimited as well?

If we can discuss "as well", the preference does not matter. What matters I think, there is a demand of both Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Unlimited.

So, if it is possible, Joinmarket should provide configuration for both. Do you agree?

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April 16, 2017, 04:46:25 AM
 #329

Are high transaction fees killing joinmarket volumes? Volumes seem to have dried up, at least in my experience.

Do we as a community have a preference for Bitcoin Core vs Bitcoin Unlimited? I know that it is a divisive topic, but can we configure Joinmarket to work with Bitcoin Unlimited as well?

If we can discuss "as well", the preference does not matter. What matters I think, there is a demand of both Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Unlimited.

So, if it is possible, Joinmarket should provide configuration for both. Do you agree?

Detailed discussion on the same in reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/601qk2/is_it_safe_to_run_joinmarket_during_hard_forks/
If you are focussing only on one chain and don't care about the other chain, then you can just do nothing and continue running Joinmarket.  Smiley


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May 08, 2017, 07:26:59 PM
 #330

Joinmarket developers, your software has been around for a couple of years. The documentation still sucks. So does the user interface, if you can call it one.

Have you considered doing some usability studies? Nothing fancy, just grab three or four friends/relatives/neighbors, ask them to install and use joinmarket with NO HELP FROM YOU while you quietly and patiently watch.

Then act on what you observe.

If you don't want to do the above, then would you please change the title of this thread? Make it "Coinjoin that hardly anybody will actually use".
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May 08, 2017, 08:37:09 PM
 #331

Joinmarket developers, your software has been around for a couple of years. The documentation still sucks. So does the user interface, if you can call it one.

Have you considered doing some usability studies? Nothing fancy, just grab three or four friends/relatives/neighbors, ask them to install and use joinmarket with NO HELP FROM YOU while you quietly and patiently watch.

Then act on what you observe.

If you don't want to do the above, then would you please change the title of this thread? Make it "Coinjoin that hardly anybody will actually use".

Im sure a future team that forks it will have this in mind.  Just because you build it, they wont necessarily come. But some people still believe that is nall it takes.
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May 09, 2017, 02:12:49 AM
 #332

Spam on Joinmarket IRC Chat?

I am getting the following interesting messages.
"Hello my name is Agneta boman and i live in Sweden Solna Please send hitman or drugs to my apartment i have 2 suicidal parrots. please i am suicidal aswell Love and kindness Boman(sd)"

 Tongue Tongue Tongue


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OROBTC
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May 09, 2017, 04:55:27 AM
 #333

Joinmarket developers, your software has been around for a couple of years. The documentation still sucks. So does the user interface, if you can call it one.

Have you considered doing some usability studies? Nothing fancy, just grab three or four friends/relatives/neighbors, ask them to install and use joinmarket with NO HELP FROM YOU while you quietly and patiently watch.

Then act on what you observe.

If you don't want to do the above, then would you please change the title of this thread? Make it "Coinjoin that hardly anybody will actually use".


I do know that when blockchain.info offered a similar service that I liked it, but apparently there was a security vulnerability that forced them to stop offering the service.  The main thing that I liked about the service was that it easy to use.  I have visited this thread many times and have NOT found anything that looks like ease-of-use would be coming along soon.

Different technologies and methods of obscuring Bitcoin trails are a great idea.  But it looks like Bitmixer.io is the leader in this "space", and the CoinJoin community does not seem to be coalescing around an easy-to-use service.

(they do call me an impatient sort)
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May 22, 2017, 02:26:44 AM
 #334

JoinMarket is built for those who:
1. Want to use coinjoin to improve the privacy of their bitcoin transactions or reduce the miner fees they pay.
2. Want to earn an income from their investment bitcoins

Coinjoin is a kind of bitcoin transaction which combines multiple people's transactions together in an effort to improve privacy, especially as a way to regain privacy after it's been degraded by bad practices. It can also reduce the size of transactions and so require less miner fees. The concept has enormous potential, but it has not seen widespread usage so far despite the multiple projects that implement it. I believe this is because the incentive structure was not right.

A coinjoin transaction requires other people to take part. The right resources (coins) have to be in the right place, at the right time, in the right quantity. This isn't a software or tech problem, its an economic problem. I propose a new kind of market is created that would allocate these resources in the best way.

In practice this would work by allowing coinjoin transactions to be paid-for. On one side there will be time-rich coinjoiners who will wait around and be willing to coinjoin at any time. On the other side will be time-stressed coinjoiners who can coinjoin instantly for a price.

This will naturally attract investors, holders of bitcoin who don't want to transact but just want to earn the coinjoin fee. They would be taking on only a very small amount of risk; Their private keys would never leave their computer, the software would only sign transactions that are valid and pay the correct amount of coins. So it's safe to say that investors would pour in, resulting in the coinjoin fees being very low.

Elevator Pitch for Coinjoin Users / People who desire privacy.

With Joinmarket nobody can steal your coins, you would mix them on your own computer. The software will never sign a transaction unless your coins are going to exactly the right address in the right amount.

Other mixing services mix your coins with other users, resulting in you getting back coins possibly related to drugs, stolen money or other illegal or immoral practices. This is highly undesirable if you just don't want your employer knowing which non-profits you support from your salary. Because of the incentives of JoinMarket, you have access to a huge amount of clean, untainted bitcoins to mix with at a very low price. Many of the bitcoins you're mixing with will be bought from regulated exchanges, owned by legitimate holders of bitcoin.

Not to mention you'd likely be paying lower fees for mixing than other services, because of the competition between willing-to-wait coinjoiners. Indeed if you don't mind waiting, you can wait around with a low offer fee and maybe another impatient coinjoiner will join with you.

Elevator Pitch for Investors

Firstly I'd like to clarify what I mean by investing. I don't want you to give your bitcoins to me. I dont want you to give your bitcoins to anybody. The private keys would be safely held on your own computer, known only by you and your wallet.

Features:
1. Earn an income from your investment bitcoins.
2. Very low risk. Your coins have to be on an online computer, but the software would only sign transactions that are valid and pay you the correct amount.
3. No commitment, withdraw your bitcoins at any time.
4. Improves the privacy of the bitcoin transactions, which makes bitcoin as a currency more useful and thus increases its value.
5. Improves the fungibility of bitcoin, since the distinction between 'clean' and 'dirty' bitcoins will be meaningless. Eliminates this particular systemic risk to bitcoin.

Downside:
1. Your return is likely to be quite low. Low risk = low reward.
2. You don't get paid unless people who desire privacy actually use this. If you're an investor you have an incentive to tell people about JoinMarket and contribute to it.

The Software

I've been writing an implementation of the idea. Right now the coinjoiner bots meet in an IRC channel. The bots announce their orders in an open-outcry trading pit style. Transaction data is sent between users as IRC private messages. Authenticated encryption is used to stop the IRC server eavesdropping. I have plans one day to move away from IRC entirely and have the users meet in some kind of peer to peer network.

How to try
Download the repository from https://github.com/chris-belcher/joinmarket and read the README file
There is an internal HD wallet. It is generated from a wallet encrypted on your hard drive.

There's also plenty of information on the wiki https://github.com/chris-belcher/joinmarket/wiki

Code:
$python wallet-tool.py generate
   Generates a new wallet. Asks for your encryption passphrase and gives you a 12-word recover seed to write down on paper, a la Electrum or Mycelium.

$ python wallet-tool.py [wallet file name]
  This will print out addresses from the HD wallet, send some coins to the first receive address

$ python yield-generator.py [wallet file]
  Becomes an investor bot, being online indefinitely and doing coinjoin for the purpose of profit

$ python sendpayment.py -N 4 [wallet file] [amount-in-satoshi] [destination address]
  Chooses the cheapest offer to do a 5-party coinjoin to send money to a destination address

If you're a frugal user and don't feel like paying to coinjoin if you dont have to, use this command
$ python patientsendpayments.py -N 1 -w 2 [wallet file] [amount in satoshi] [destination address]
  Announces orders and waits to coinjoin for a maximum of 2 hours. Once that time it up cancels the
  orders and pays to do a 2-party coinjoin.

$ python ob-watcher.py
  Starts a local http server which you can connect to and will display the orderbook as well as some graphs

$ python wallet-tool.py recover
  Will prompt for the 12 word recover seed and create a new encrypted wallet file

$ python wallet-tool.py -p [wallet file]
  Will print out addresses along with private keys which can be used to sweep the coins away

Example coinjoins transactions made with JoinMarket:
14 parties, amount 0.01btc https://blockchain.info/tx/55eac9d4a4159d4ba355122c6c18f85293c19ae358306a3773ec3a5d053e2f1b
11 parties, amount 0.57960945btc https://blockchain.info/tx/402d3e1df685d1fdf82f36b220079c1bf44db227df2d676625ebcbee3f6cb22a
8 parties, amount 2.6btc https://blockchain.info/tx/722bb2662cb2ef9b4a2693e52ba82c44cea1042349f1aa6e71e28a3947aa4144
7 parties, amount 0.02btc https://blockchain.info/tx/e38e45d004ef913ee4e952d1f185dbea91cc8cc56e22aa7f767a3edec952a4a9
3 parties, amount 25btc https://blockchain.info/tx/da1a2259be752dd6b5162221989181b7334bd0acbbc1bca31596e5bc32375770
4 parties, amount 40btc https://blockchain.info/tx/3b97544488cac0271a80b20822597342648d19ed02ac25041bd8d35e624d8e6b
3 parties, amount 12btc https://blockchain.info/tx/d91278e125673f5b9201456b0c36efac3b2b6700fdd04fc2227352a63f941170
4 parties, amount 0.84btc (~$200 at contemporary exchange rate) https://blockchain.info/tx/7d588d52d1cece7a18d663c977d6143016b5b326404bbf286bc024d5d54fcecb
4 parties, amount 0.1btc https://blockchain.info/tx/b85a3b563474ca98ba1809460e61a50053899c21f9869afb6a3a6d4b4cb00b7c
3 parties, amount 0.19btc https://blockchain.info/tx/2e2cd9204f97a2260ba5b1fd446f394eeff79daa973e37dd29794a9ee667bf64

Further Development
Github: https://github.com/chris-belcher/joinmarket
IRC: irc.freenode.net #joinmarket
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/joinmarket
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket

If you can program, contribute code. The project needs development works more than anything else right now. A list of suggested projects are here https://github.com/chris-belcher/joinmarket/wiki/What-can-I-do-for-JoinMarket%3F

If you require privacy, JoinMarket can be used right now on the mainnet, albeit with a command-line interface. Many people are already using it.

Bitcoin Core wallet could be integrated by using the -walletbroadcast=0. Integration on the command line using json-rpc calls is already done, use the --rpcwallet flag on sendpayment.py

I have plans to create an Electrum plugin which does this, it would be a simple checkbox and thereafter all transactions would be coinjoined.

If you run your own yield generator bot, you can earn an income from your bitcoin savings and increase the privacy and anonymous set of others.

People trust systems more if they think they know how it works. If you're good with graphics, you can help the project by creating an infographic for how it all works. For example how coinjoin transactions in the joinmarket software are communicated, created, checked and signed.

Snazzy websites are better for getting the word out than big walls of text on a forum.

Further Reading
gmaxwell's original coinjoin post. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0
my original Joinmarket suggestion / writeup. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg9384411#msg9384411
Mike Hearn's blog post about privacy and coinjoin https://medium.com/@octskyward/merge-avoidance-7f95a386692f
Is this promising

I want to try my next campaign.
 Smiley
charger100
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September 21, 2017, 02:31:08 PM
 #335

"Joinmarket - Coinjoin that people will actually use"

It's been 2,5 years since this topic was started and my only question is simple: haven't you yet understood that people will NOT actually use something that doesn't have friendly UI?

I like this whole project and idea behind it, however being someone without basic coding background I find this thing quite challenging to deal with Sad
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September 21, 2017, 04:25:58 PM
 #336

"Joinmarket - Coinjoin that people will actually use"

It's been 2,5 years since this topic was started and my only question is simple: haven't you yet understood that people will NOT actually use something that doesn't have friendly UI?

I like this whole project and idea behind it, however being someone without basic coding background I find this thing quite challenging to deal with Sad
RTFM

[GPG Public Key]
BTC/DVC/TRC/FRC: 1K1773RbXRZVRQSSXe9N6N2MUFERvrdu6y ANC/XPM AK1773RTmRKtvbKBCrUu95UQg5iegrqyeA NMC: NK1773Rzv8b4ugmCgX789PbjewA9fL9Dy1 LTC: LKi773RBuPepQH8E6Zb1ponoCvgbU7hHmd EMC: EK1773RxUes1HX1YAGMZ1xVYBBRUCqfDoF BQC: bK1773R1APJz4yTgRkmdKQhjhiMyQpJgfN
charger100
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September 23, 2017, 09:10:44 AM
 #337

"Joinmarket - Coinjoin that people will actually use"

It's been 2,5 years since this topic was started and my only question is simple: haven't you yet understood that people will NOT actually use something that doesn't have friendly UI?

I like this whole project and idea behind it, however being someone without basic coding background I find this thing quite challenging to deal with Sad
RTFM

yeah good luck in accomplishing anything with such an attitude
belcher (OP)
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September 23, 2017, 01:49:53 PM
 #338

There is a GUI and has been for months

https://www.reddit.com/r/joinmarket/comments/691olg/reminder_waxwings_joinmarketclientserver_repo_has/

1HZBd22eQLgbwxjwbCtSjhoPFWxQg8rBd9
JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
PGP fingerprint: 0A8B 038F 5E10 CC27 89BF CFFF EF73 4EA6 77F3 1129
belcher (OP)
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September 23, 2017, 05:51:02 PM
 #339

JoinMarket-clientserver release 0.3.1(!)

https://github.com/JoinMarket-Org/joinmarket-clientserver/blob/master/docs/release-notes/release-notes-0.3.1.md

https://twitter.com/joinmarket/status/911647821958393859

Bugfixes and new features, notably syncing your wallet from Electrum servers.

As mentioned before this supports segwit, has a GUI, more stable sendpayment and tumbler that can be restarted if it crashes prematurely.

1HZBd22eQLgbwxjwbCtSjhoPFWxQg8rBd9
JoinMarket - CoinJoin that people will actually use.
PGP fingerprint: 0A8B 038F 5E10 CC27 89BF CFFF EF73 4EA6 77F3 1129
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October 20, 2017, 10:04:23 PM
 #340

Is there a problem in importing a private key from JM 0.3.2 to Electrum? When I try that, I get a totally different address (non-segwit) in Electrum...
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