Who said the BTC price doesn't matter? BitPay announces layoffs

[Elwar]

The best business model for a software company involves hiring private contractors from other countries that do the work for 1/10th the cost and do not come with all of the labor costs that come with having a US based business.

[CIYAM]

The best business model for a software company involves hiring private contractors from other countries that do the work for 1/10th the cost and do not come with all of the labor costs that come with having a US based business.

Although I come from Australia I can tell you that is a terrible idea.

Having lived in China for now over 8 years I can tell you it is virtually impossible to find any software engineers that have the same sort of creative skills that are available in most western countries (to understand why is to understand the Chinese education system and in particular the Chinese written language which is its core).

As software engineering usually requires quite a lot of creativity if you decide to employ people with very little of that then your business won't do very well at all (how well other "cheap contractors" compare is something perhaps others can comment upon).

[BitUsher]

The best business model for a software company involves hiring private contractors from other countries that do the work for 1/10th the cost and do not come with all of the labor costs that come with having a US based business.

This works for some positions (customer service and ticket support) but in the IT companies I have worked for management quickly realized that development and programming is better handled in house because the hidden costs of sloppy code, poor communication, lack of creativity, and poor documentation exceeded the cost savings from labor.

[Elwar]

The best business model for a software company involves hiring private contractors from other countries that do the work for 1/10th the cost and do not come with all of the labor costs that come with having a US based business.

Although I come from Australia I can tell you that is a terrible idea.

Having lived in China for now over 8 years I can tell you it is virtually impossible to find any software engineers that have the same sort of creative skills that are available in most western countries (to understand why is to understand the Chinese education system and in particular the Chinese written language which is its core).

As software engineering usually requires quite a lot of creativity if you decide to employ people with very little of that then your business won't do very well at all (how well other "cheap contractors" compare is something perhaps others can comment upon).

Oddly enough, I hired a guy from Australia to work on my website. Also someone from India.

It is true about the creativity. The Australian guy did what I wanted him to do and added his own flare which was "better" than what I asked for. The Indian guy gave me -exactly- what I asked for, no more no less.
But for both of them, I did not have to pay unemployment tax, medicare, social security tax, health insurance, dental, vision, withholding, vacation time, sick days, holidays, 401k, etc.

[Ludi]

I'd wait for more information as to why the made people redundant as to speculating on the reasons.

The best business model for a software company involves hiring private contractors from other countries that do the work for 1/10th the cost and do not come with all of the labor costs that come with having a US based business.

This works for some positions (customer service and ticket support) but in the IT companies I have worked for management quickly realized that development and programming is better handled in house because the hidden costs of sloppy code, poor communication, lack of creativity, and poor documentation exceeded the cost savings from labor.

True, but even hiring foreign customer service agents can have their drawbacks, especially if they don't have the proper training. If you've ever dealt with one that is completely clueless you'll know what I'm talking about.

[CIYAM]

But for both of them, I did not have to pay unemployment tax, medicare, social security tax, health insurance, dental, vision, withholding, vacation time, sick days, holidays, 401k, etc.

Actually that really isn't an issue of where people come from but instead *how they are employed* which is why I created CIYAM Open (to try and work out a completely new way to do this).

Unfortunately so far I've found that the vast majority of people are simply not up to the level of being able to do a task for a fixed fee (instead they always prefer to be paid for "time").

[Elwar]

But for both of them, I did not have to pay unemployment tax, medicare, social security tax, health insurance, dental, vision, withholding, vacation time, sick days, holidays, 401k, etc.

Actually that really isn't an issue of where people come from but instead *how they are employed* which is why I created CIYAM Open (to try and work out a completely new way to do this).

Unfortunately so far I've found that the vast majority of people are simply not up to the level of being able to do a task for a fixed fee (instead they always prefer to be paid for "time").

True, it is just a matter of structure. I just always found that people in other countries charge a lot less than Americans. And that is speaking as an American software engineer. Nobody would pay my salary if I was competing as an independent contractor in the private sector.

[mistercoin]

Just because BitPay had some lay-offs does not mean, even remotely, it is because of Bitcoin's price.

[CIYAM]

Nobody would pay my salary if I was competing as an independent contractor in the private sector.

You might be surprised.

I can command over 1000 RMB per hour here in China (over 150 USD at current rates) and with more effort (I am a bit lazy) I am sure that could be easily doubled.

[ChuckBuck]

Bitcoin price and layoffs shouldn't correlate, if the employer is paying the amount of Bitcoins pegged to fiat amount salary.

If Bitpay overextended themselves, hired too many consultants, spent wastefully advertising the Bitcoin Bowl in St Petersberg, that's another thing.

Seems like more an operational costs faux-pas with Bitpay concerning budget and wages causing them to lay off workers, than simply the down price of Bitcoin.

[redhawk979]

There seems to be a lot of businesses who relied on the price of BTC rising and are now feeling the pinch. I saw even CEX.io is shutting down cloud mining shortly due to low price.

[GreatWinter]

That is kinda sad really. I thought of BitPay as the next Google or the next Facebook. The layoffs could be a sign that they are no longer growing and that interest in BTC is starting to shrink. I certainly hope it doesn't turn into merely a fad. Who knows what the future will bring for BTC and maybe there will be a positive effect later on for BitPay.

[Coogan]

That is kinda sad really. I thought of BitPay as the next Google or the next Facebook. The layoffs could be a sign that they are no longer growing and that interest in BTC is starting to shrink. I certainly hope it doesn't turn into merely a fad. Who knows what the future will bring for BTC and maybe there will be a positive effect later on for BitPay.

Every company has it set backs including Google and Facebook (just watch the social network). There's still plenty of time for it to become the next big thing in bitcoin, though there is competition from several other payment processors etc which could cause them problems.

[BittBurger]

One word:

Obamacare


suck it small businesses

"Dear Obama Hater - You Just Wasted a Decade of Your Life"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/04/1355556/-Dear-Obama-Hater-You-Just-Wasted-A-Decade-Of-Your-Life

-B-

[TheDreadPirateDickstein]

it doesn't mean that both of them are connected. Layoff could be due to restructuring to improve organizational effectiveness or to cut down on redundancy to fine tune and align towards organizational goals. The point is, it could be due to many other reasons.

You're a sheep if you believe that.

BTC to 120 at least. The prophet has spoken!

[Gleb Gamow]

The best business model for a software company involves hiring private contractors from other countries that do the work for 1/10th the cost and do not come with all of the labor costs that come with having a US based business.

Although I come from Australia I can tell you that is a terrible idea.

Having lived in China for now over 8 years I can tell you it is virtually impossible to find any software engineers that have the same sort of creative skills that are available in most western countries (to understand why is to understand the Chinese education system and in particular the Chinese written language which is its core).

As software engineering usually requires quite a lot of creativity if you decide to employ people with very little of that then your business won't do very well at all (how well other "cheap contractors" compare is something perhaps others can comment upon).

For an analogy, if AcmeA only uses day laborers at their production facility, while AcmeB fully trains its full-time staff, which company's product line would meet the highest quality standards given that both manufacture the same exact component(s)?

[toknormal]

BTC to 120 at least. The prophet has spoken!

It doesn't matter.

What matters is that it's non-zero.

Bitcoin either can or can't transmit value independently of counterparties.

If it can it is a huge breakthrough technology. This has never been possible before in the history of the internet (or humanity for that matter). It WILL be addopted and used.

If it can't then obviously it's dead. The price is up to markets, not the technology. We've not even seen the tip of the iceberg of what types of retail markets and economies are possible with blockchain technology, simply because the infrastructure isn't there yet to support mass adoption. But make no mistake, that infrastructure is coming and when it appears we'll be into the next chapter of this whole story.

[Gleb Gamow]

That is kinda sad really. I thought of BitPay as the next Google or the next Facebook. The layoffs could be a sign that they are no longer growing and that interest in BTC is starting to shrink. I certainly hope it doesn't turn into merely a fad. Who knows what the future will bring for BTC and maybe there will be a positive effect later on for BitPay.

Whatever the reasons, only three days ago it was espoused that good people were far and few between, thus important to retain them. Something changed over the weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_62Rv7R1jcY

On a side note, BitStamp stated that only 1% of their customer's money was hacked, for the other 99% is in a secure cold wallet. Think about that for a sec. BitStamp is holding ~$500,000,000 USD of other people's money, for they've just declared that it's not theirs.

How is it that there are those who say that we should be responsible for our own bitcoins, but they also declare that the third-party entity, BitStamp, is mmmkay to hold $500M USD worth of bitcoins? Hell, even Tony mentions in the video I linked above that lessons were learnt from Mt Gox's debacle. The only lesson I see learnt is to not let an entity hold $750M USD worth of bitcoins, but only 2/3 that total. The ONLY saving grace is that BitStamp in located in the US, thus there would be some recourse if things go sour.

[turvarya]

But for both of them, I did not have to pay unemployment tax, medicare, social security tax, health insurance, dental, vision, withholding, vacation time, sick days, holidays, 401k, etc.

Actually that really isn't an issue of where people come from but instead *how they are employed* which is why I created CIYAM Open (to try and work out a completely new way to do this).

Unfortunately so far I've found that the vast majority of people are simply not up to the level of being able to do a task for a fixed fee (instead they always prefer to be paid for "time").

True, it is just a matter of structure. I just always found that people in other countries charge a lot less than Americans. And that is speaking as an American software engineer. Nobody would pay my salary if I was competing as an independent contractor in the private sector.

That's funny, since just last week I spoke to one of the founders of BitMEX and he told me, he would never ever hire chinese people again after wasting a lot of money on them without any result. So, they went back to hiring US and central europe people.

[mayax]

That is kinda sad really. I thought of BitPay as the next Google or the next Facebook. The layoffs could be a sign that they are no longer growing and that interest in BTC is starting to shrink. I certainly hope it doesn't turn into merely a fad. Who knows what the future will bring for BTC and maybe there will be a positive effect later on for BitPay.

Whatever the reasons, only three days ago it was espoused that good people were far and few between, thus important to retain them. Something changed over the weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_62Rv7R1jcY

On a side note, BitStamp stated that only 1% of their customer's money was hacked, for the other 99% is in a secure cold wallet. Think about that for a sec. BitStamp is holding ~$500,000,000 USD of other people's money, for they've just declared that it's not theirs.

How is it that there are those who say that we should be responsible for our own bitcoins, but they also declare that the third-party entity, BitStamp, is mmmkay to hold $500M USD worth of bitcoins? Hell, even Tony mentions in the video I linked above that lessons were learnt from Mt Gox's debacle. The only lesson I see learnt is to not let an entity hold $750M USD worth of bitcoins, but only 2/3 that total. The ONLY saving grace is that BitStamp in located in the US, thus there would be some recourse if things go sour.

Do you ever think that Bitstamp can fulfill a selling order of...let's say 100 MIL worth of BTC? Let's get real. They must have these money into their bank account first.

What if the BTC price is going up at 2000 USD? How would they have "billions"?

Someone must be very "innocent" to keep his BTC in an exchanger.