"Bitcoin is dangerous, avoid it" - Gavin Andresen

[pawel7777]

I want to read the ''Analysis page 16''

I made a separate thread in Bitcoin Discussion section, full article + link:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=921669.0

[AceWallen]

they are trying to makes the price fall to buy cheap coin, i an't see other reason for all those bullshit against bitcoin

i don't see anything out of line here. it's really quite easy for people who aren't tech-savvy to screw up dealing with bitcoin, get hacked, duped, etc. this isn't manipulating price....

[poncho32]

If the news author's exact quote is correct, then Gavin did use the word "dangerous" to describe Bitcoin.  If Gavin didn't mean this, then he should learn to choose his words more carefully.

Jornalists like to create drama. I think Gavin was referring to bitcoin being "dangerous" for ordinary people who are not comfortable with computers. We know how easy it is for new users to loose coins to hackers and scams.

may be, it makes sense. It is certainly very easy to lose bitcoins when there is no good familiarity with computers and internet

There are still people who have never used a computer in their lives. I have had to walk people through opening an email account. These are the types of people he was probably referring to. The journalists probably needed to fill some space due tio lack of news, so came up with a sensationalist misleading headline. All Gavin appears to be saying is if you are not computer literate enough to know what a firewall is then don't use bitcoin. He could have added that the same type of people would be well advised to avoid using credit cards, online banking and anything related to finance until they have learned about basic computer security.

[indiemax]

he didn't say this recently,this is an OLD story ffs

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

Why don't you guys try to answer the "hard" question?

The question is not "Is bitcoin too difficult to use for the average joe and gramdma?".
The question is: "why would they want to use it in the first place"?

 

[Richard Branson]

...which requires the creation of offline wallets to keep even reasonably safe.

No it doesn't.  Quit trollin'.

It does not?
So it is completly safe on an online computer? There is no risk for keylogger? Really? Damn nice! Glad I can use SuperSecureBitcoin!123 as my password as well.

Bitcoin can be stored safely, but not in online wallets or wallets on online computers.
It is way easier to steal bitcoins on a online computer than hacking an ebanking account, because all banks use at least 2 factor auth. Some even are using tokens.

[riiiiising]

If the news author's exact quote is correct, then Gavin did use the word "dangerous" to describe Bitcoin.  If Gavin didn't mean this, then he should learn to choose his words more carefully.

Jornalists like to create drama. I think Gavin was referring to bitcoin being "dangerous" for ordinary people who are not comfortable with computers. We know how easy it is for new users to loose coins to hackers and scams.

may be, it makes sense. It is certainly very easy to lose bitcoins when there is no good familiarity with computers and internet

There are still people who have never used a computer in their lives. I have had to walk people through opening an email account. These are the types of people he was probably referring to. The journalists probably needed to fill some space due tio lack of news, so came up with a sensationalist misleading headline. All Gavin appears to be saying is if you are not computer literate enough to know what a firewall is then don't use bitcoin. He could have added that the same type of people would be well advised to avoid using credit cards, online banking and anything related to finance until they have learned about basic computer security.

Whether you know what a firewall is and the job it performs or not, holding bitcoins is a risk, and even most people on these forums really have no idea what they're doing when it comes to computer security. For example, just yesterday a gentleman posted a thread with a sensationalist prediction and a malware link in the speculation section of this forum. There was almost a full page of comments about the prediction before anyone (cough *me* cough) bothered to check the link's reputation and notify the mods. I can't even guess how many people naively clicked the link before it was removed two hours later

There are plenty of people who think they understand security well because they don't download executables online. Like my cousin who didn't even run AV software on his PC because he's "not dumb enough to download random shit off the Internet". Then, when I checked his netstat output, we found call outs to a known malicious Russian IP.   I'd wager there are plenty of armchair "security experts" here who think they know what they're doing, until the day their wallet balance shows zero and they run to reddit to make an appeal to the hacker to return their coins.

But it's all a moot point anyway. As Mr. Trollin pointed out, why would anyone want to use bitcoin in the first place? Especially given all the security exploits involved with storing them?

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

Bitcoin is 100% safe if you keep it in cold storage with a paper wallet and you are the only owner of the private keys.

AKA: bitcoin is safe as long as you don't have to use it and move it around. Then shit hits the fan.

[pawel7777]

...which requires the creation of offline wallets to keep even reasonably safe.

No it doesn't.  Quit trollin'.

It does not?
So it is completly safe on an online computer? There is no risk for keylogger? Really? Damn nice! Glad I can use SuperSecureBitcoin!123 as my password as well.

Bitcoin can be stored safely, but not in online wallets or wallets on online computers.
It is way easier to steal bitcoins on a online computer than hacking an ebanking account, because all banks use at least 2 factor auth. Some even are using tokens.

They're talking about 'reasonably safe' not 'completely safe'. Nothing is 100% safe and will never be.

[riiiiising]

...which requires the creation of offline wallets to keep even reasonably safe.

No it doesn't.  Quit trollin'.

It does not?
So it is completly safe on an online computer? There is no risk for keylogger? Really? Damn nice! Glad I can use SuperSecureBitcoin!123 as my password as well.

Bitcoin can be stored safely, but not in online wallets or wallets on online computers.
It is way easier to steal bitcoins on a online computer than hacking an ebanking account, because all banks use at least 2 factor auth. Some even are using tokens.

They're talking about 'reasonably safe' not 'completely safe'. Nothing is 100% safe and will never be.

Which is why it's a good thing to have FDIC insured, regulated banks, no?

[pawel7777]

...which requires the creation of offline wallets to keep even reasonably safe.

No it doesn't.  Quit trollin'.

It does not?
So it is completly safe on an online computer? There is no risk for keylogger? Really? Damn nice! Glad I can use SuperSecureBitcoin!123 as my password as well.

Bitcoin can be stored safely, but not in online wallets or wallets on online computers.
It is way easier to steal bitcoins on a online computer than hacking an ebanking account, because all banks use at least 2 factor auth. Some even are using tokens.

They're talking about 'reasonably safe' not 'completely safe'. Nothing is 100% safe and will never be.

Which is why it's a good thing to have FDIC insured, regulated banks, no?

To have what insured? How's that related to "Nothing is 100% safe and will never be" (including insured deposits)?

[picolo]

One more example of how Bitcoin Foundation members continue to absolutely suck at PR, and continue putting their foot in their mouths.  They should all just stop talking to the press.

Bitcoins are not "dangerous" in any way.  Not even for Grandma, if she manages them right.

Or everything is "dangerous". The most dangerous thing is not to do or try anything and not fight for justice and better efficiency.

[riiiiising]

...which requires the creation of offline wallets to keep even reasonably safe.

No it doesn't.  Quit trollin'.

It does not?
So it is completly safe on an online computer? There is no risk for keylogger? Really? Damn nice! Glad I can use SuperSecureBitcoin!123 as my password as well.

Bitcoin can be stored safely, but not in online wallets or wallets on online computers.
It is way easier to steal bitcoins on a online computer than hacking an ebanking account, because all banks use at least 2 factor auth. Some even are using tokens.

They're talking about 'reasonably safe' not 'completely safe'. Nothing is 100% safe and will never be.

Which is why it's a good thing to have FDIC insured, regulated banks, no?

To have what insured? How's that related to "Nothing is 100% safe and will never be" (including insured deposits)?

The FDIC insures deposits on member banks up to $250,000. So basically, as long as the US government is still around, your money is safe.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, introduces all kinds of new ways to wipe your balance out in ways that you never even expected were possible before! Hardware failures, hacks, social engineering, natural disasters, fires, physical thefts. And in none of those cases are your balances insured by the single most powerful entity in the world. They're not insured by anyone. When they're gone... they're gone!

But what do they call that in bitcoinland...? Oh right, "a valuable lesson learned about computer security."

[NotLambchop]

...
Which is why it's a good thing to have FDIC insured, regulated banks, no?

To have what insured? How's that related to "Nothing is 100% safe and will never be" (including insured deposits)?

So grammy's just fine keeping her life's savings in an online wallet or on her netbook?  Safe as money in the bank you say?

If I'm being too oblique: Sure, nothing is 100% safe--neither keeping money in a bank nor giving it to strungout Freddy who lives behind the dumpster.  I'd feel better if grammy chose the bank tho.

[BTCtrader71]

"Bitcoin is dangerous, avoid it" - Gavin Andresen

The thread title is misleading. Those are not his words. He is quoted in the article as saying "Bitcoin is dangerous" but he did not say "avoid it."

His words:

It makes me more confident in the long term success of bitcoin when its detractors find it necessary to misrepresent reality (like misquoting Gavin).

Why do trolls skew the truth? Because they have to.

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

"Bitcoin is dangerous, avoid it" - Gavin Andresen

The thread title is misleading. Those are not his words. He is quoted in the article as saying "Bitcoin is dangerous" but he did not say "avoid it."

His words:

It makes me more confident in the long term success of bitcoin when its detractors find it necessary to misrepresent reality (like misquoting Gavin).

Why do trolls skew the truth? Because they have to.

I just quoted what's written in the article, son.
That's what readers actually read.

[pawel7777]

The FDIC insures deposits on member banks up to $250,000. So basically, as long as the US government is still around, your money is safe.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, introduces all kinds of new ways to wipe your balance out in ways that you never even expected were possible before! Hardware failures, hacks, social engineering, natural disasters, fires, physical thefts. And in none of those cases are your balances insured by the single most powerful entity in the world. They're not insured by anyone. When they're gone... they're gone!

But what do they call that in bitcoinland...? Oh right, "a valuable lesson learned about computer security."

Your money is safe as long as it's not more than $250,000 or as long as the government itself is solvent (see Cyprus) or as long as they don't introduce the idea of negative interest on high deposit (you need to move your money elsewhere or you'll be losing it) or ridiculous taxes on interests etc.

But yes, I do enjoy the fact that fiat in my bank are somewhat insured (even if it comes at cost). I also do enjoy the fact that I can withdraw some cash and carry it in my pocket completely uninsured, that I can move my funds to a less secured place, that I can convert it to gold and keep it under my bed if I ever wanted to.

Same as I enjoy being able to use bitcoin as an alternative currency, whether I choose to keep it in my control (with associated risk) or deposit with 3-rd party (even with some sort of insurance, such as Circle). And if I ever feel uncomfortable - I don't have to use it at all, as it's completely voluntary.

It's good to have various options in life to choose from. No?

ps. Still don't know how was that relevant to my post, but...oh well.

[DieJohnny]

If you disagree with Gavin, wait ten years, you will at that point in time look back on Bitcoin and you will agree with Gavin. Like Magic.

[romneymoney]

Honesty isn't necessarily the worst policy.  I have conflicting feelings on this.

[newIndia]

Prevention is better than cure. If noobs come to bitcoin at this stage and get a hit, it'll only affect bitcoin's reputation. At this point of time, bitcoin is good only on strong hands.