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Author Topic: This is really fucked up  (Read 2286 times)
kutaka
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January 14, 2015, 06:02:34 PM
 #21

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.
Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
There are no scammers outside of bitcoin. Yeah, sure... Huh
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Rawted
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January 14, 2015, 06:03:34 PM
 #22

More like, the "back to reality phase" that bitcoin essentially holds no advantages over traditional payment systems aside from some "pseudo anonymity" and really shouldn't be valued more than a couple dollars per coin at best.

Other than it's faster, safer and cheaper than any other payment system, which is huge.
Faster and cheaper? Of course. Safer?  Not even remotely. FDIC ensures most people have nothing to worry about when it comes to USD and banking. This industry is ripe with scammers and fly by night companies. Not to mention that with the large mining farms and dedicated TX nodes Bitcoin has become more and more centralized.

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
There are no scammers outside of bitcoin. Yeah, sure... Huh
No one ever said that.
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January 14, 2015, 06:12:39 PM
 #23

No, I meant 'ensures'.

Indeed, my mistake. I'm on a hair-trigger for people transposing those words and misread your statement. Sorry.


Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.

Well you're simply making statements about the present, whereas I'm looking at the trajectory and envisioning what bitcoin can become. The former is uninteresting to me, whereas the latter is what this whole thing is about. Honestly, the ecosystem has come a lot farther a lot faster than I would've expected. The unfortunate side-effect, as noted, has been the premature injection of, shall we say, less thoughtful folks with ridiculously short-term-minded expectations.

Now a lot of those folks have turned into bears who just look to the fact that Bitcoin is *currently* not a robust, brain-dead-simple secure, liquid, high-volume, low-volatility currency and financial system and conclude that it's fundamentally non-viable. That's just unfair, myopic, opportunistic, and a little nuts to me. But Clifford Stoll would probably approve: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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January 14, 2015, 06:21:16 PM
 #24

No, I meant 'ensures'.

Indeed, my mistake. I'm on a hair-trigger for people transposing those words and misread your statement. Sorry.


Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.

Well you're simply making statements about the present, whereas I'm looking at the trajectory and envisioning what bitcoin can become. The former is uninteresting to me, whereas the latter is what this whole thing is about. Honestly, the ecosystem has come a lot farther a lot faster than I would've expected. The unfortunate side-effect, as noted, has been the premature injection of, shall we say, less thoughtful folks with ridiculously short-term-minded expectations.

Now a lot of those folks have turned into bears who just look to the fact that Bitcoin is *currently* not a robust, brain-dead-simple secure, liquid, high-volume, low-volatility currency and financial system and conclude that it's fundamentally non-viable. That's just unfair, myopic, opportunistic, and a little nuts to me. But Clifford Stoll would probably approve: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306
No problem, Mel.

I agree with you about the potential for Bitcoin. In a perfect world, it would be the only currency that makes sense. However, it simply cannot survive the onslaught of scammers, ignorant users, online security issues, and bad publicity currently prevalent. 2015 is already starting off worse than 2014. Combine the fact that there's still a few hundred thousand BTC waiting to be dumped, the Silk Road trial (which will bring negative light to the industry during it's entire run), infighting amongst developers, disagreement within the foundation, and a community literally overrun with fraud - and nothing looks positive.

There's also the fact that it now costs much more to mine a Bitcoin than it's worth, and those mining companies who make up the bulk of the network hash rate are now being pressured to dump every coin they mint. They have USD backed loans that need to be paid.

We are not in a good spot, at all.
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January 14, 2015, 06:49:10 PM
 #25

Bitcoin was a great experiment. Unfortunately it has a huge flaw in its model - the human element.
HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh

What is wrong with the people on this forum? Someone enlighten me, please!
They sold, possibly at a loss, and are very bitter about it. But you knew that.

HODLing for the longest time. Skippin fast right around the moon. On a rocketship straight to mars.
Up, up and away with my beautiful, my beautiful Bitcoin~
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January 14, 2015, 06:54:45 PM
 #26

No, really.

Smells like MtGox all over. I hope Bitstamp and all shitty exchanges die ASAP. I hope Karpeles gets a long term in the jail.

Anyhow, breaking this low brings a huge opportunity which many will fail to see. The only problem is one buy's now and price gets to $80, there will be more time involved until it gets back to 190 and again to over 500. But it will.

Many will fail to see that. And please stop the 'free market' bullshit. When you have an 'audience' of 90% sheeps and a few shitty exchanges, with no transparency, you cannot call it free market. This is bullshit.

PS: I was terribly wrong, I was thinking that 250-270 would be the bottom.
Like I said before, Bitcoin was never supossed to depend on centralized exchanges and payment systems like Bitpay, but think... no one forced people to put their money there and support these. People wanted a way to daytrade and they, freely, agreed to fund and support such exchanges. Serves them well for trusting them and not waiting for p2p exchange technology to be available, but guess what, no one ever forced them to put their money there. It was a free decission, so at the end of the day, the core of Bitcoin is free market and they freely funded these projects, so yes, deal with it, this is free market, including shitty audiences, centralizing projects and all, the core is all working under Bitcoin which is free, so deal with it, you can't cherry pick what is and isnt freemarket.
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#Free market


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January 14, 2015, 06:56:21 PM
 #27

I think the bitcoin will pump  after the next block reward halving , at the moment there isn't a reason for a pump ( I'm realistic and this is my opinion).
I don't know  "why" this dump but I'm sure we will reach again $ 150 , very soon.
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January 14, 2015, 06:58:21 PM
 #28

I think the bitcoin will pump  after the next block reward halving , at the moment there isn't a reason for a pump ( I'm realistic and this is my opinion).
I don't know  "why" this dump but I'm sure we will reach again $ 150 , very soon.
Well I remember reading the same about DOGE and nothing happened with the famous havling. Of course DOGE isn't BTC but just saying.
poncho32
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January 14, 2015, 07:19:07 PM
 #29

There were 45k bitcoins traded on bitfinex in less than an hour during the big crash this morning. That's definitely not normal and I don't think dumping that many coins is sustainable. That's almost the amount of  silk road bitcoins sold at the last auction, and those were not all dumped by the auction winners within the same hour.
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January 14, 2015, 07:25:16 PM
 #30


finex has amazing volume stats, must have picked up some customers from bitstamp after the hack.
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January 14, 2015, 07:44:50 PM
 #31

No, I meant 'ensures'.

Indeed, my mistake. I'm on a hair-trigger for people transposing those words and misread your statement. Sorry.


Everything else you posted actually supports my statement.

Well you're simply making statements about the present, whereas I'm looking at the trajectory and envisioning what bitcoin can become. The former is uninteresting to me, whereas the latter is what this whole thing is about. Honestly, the ecosystem has come a lot farther a lot faster than I would've expected. The unfortunate side-effect, as noted, has been the premature injection of, shall we say, less thoughtful folks with ridiculously short-term-minded expectations.

Now a lot of those folks have turned into bears who just look to the fact that Bitcoin is *currently* not a robust, brain-dead-simple secure, liquid, high-volume, low-volatility currency and financial system and conclude that it's fundamentally non-viable. That's just unfair, myopic, opportunistic, and a little nuts to me. But Clifford Stoll would probably approve: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306
No problem, Mel.

I agree with you about the potential for Bitcoin. In a perfect world, it would be the only currency that makes sense. However, it simply cannot survive the onslaught of scammers, ignorant users, online security issues, and bad publicity currently prevalent. 2015 is already starting off worse than 2014. Combine the fact that there's still a few hundred thousand BTC waiting to be dumped, the Silk Road trial (which will bring negative light to the industry during it's entire run), infighting amongst developers, disagreement within the foundation, and a community literally overrun with fraud - and nothing looks positive.

There's also the fact that it now costs much more to mine a Bitcoin than it's worth, and those mining companies who make up the bulk of the network hash rate are now being pressured to dump every coin they mint. They have USD backed loans that need to be paid.

We are not in a good spot, at all.
Though I completely understand the perspective that Melbustus is coming from, I hate to say it but I am siding with Rawted on this one.  Will bitcoin recover?  Who knows, but one thing I do believe regardless is that decentralized crypto currencies will be the norm at some point in the future...was just really hoping it might take place during my lifetime and who knows, perhaps it still will.

¯¯̿̿¯̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿'̿̿̿̿̿'̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ '̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/'̿̿ ̿ ̿̿

Gimme the crypto!!
B.A.S.
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January 15, 2015, 08:18:36 PM
 #32

In light of the recent plunge (a half-baked theory):

1. The massive sell-off was planned

a) Bitstamp (among others) has been fighting an entire year of slowly decreasing BTC prices. Although transaction volumes were increasing in 2014, coin value was steadily in decline. While they were making money on trading volume, the decreasing value in BTC was costing them a lot of money in sell offs, much of which was used prior to buy over inflated coins by Bitstamp.

b) In an effort to front run an engineered drop in price, 19,000+ BTC valued between ~$300-$1100 were 'stolen.' Me thinks the average price per coin was closer to $600/$800 that Bitstamp paid.

c) Price plummets and Bitstamp buys back 'lost' 19,000+ BTC at reduced price.

d) Steady increase in price in the months to follow or at least some short term positive price movement AKA Bitstamp recovers from insolvency/greedy hedging bets made in 2014.


Just a thought.

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