LET'S TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT BITCOIN (NO TABOOS OR IRRATIONAL DREAMS)

[Askenaz]

With respect to the oldest and most ranked members of the bitcoin community: PLEASE STOP TELLING LIES ABOUT BITCOIN.

Even a ten year old kid could say that: "BITCOIN WILL NEVER BE A CURRENCY". But that's the truth, like it or not. The reason is the same as always, BITCOIN VALUE IS TOO VOLATILE. Then, most "experts" say that the volatility will decrease as the adoption grows.

HUGE LIE! The content of this quote is simply contradictory, see it: "If there's mass adoption, then<>volatility will decrease". But the fact is that MASS ADOPTION WILL NOT COME with actual volatility. Then, the content of the quote is contradictory and doesn't make sense. Some people believe in god, others belive in bitcoin as a currency.

Like it or not, any currency needs a stable value to work. And bitcoin will never be able to do it, because IT'S NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT. If satoshi really wanted to create an alternative to the actual banking system, he/she wouldn't have created a deflationary currency. A limited supply and USEFUL thing like BITCOIN, versus an exponential growing dollar, make a perfect combination for a BIG SPECULATIVE ASSET.

The problem is that, as a speculative asset, it's controlled mainly by speculators, whose are interested in high volatilities. This high volatility scares the mass, and without their support, bitcoin will not be a currency. I won't be able to buy oranges, computers or houses with them, because people will not accept this what they call "scam".

The only solution would be to drive out the speculators of the market, but that's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

Bitcoin blockchain technology is amazing and key for the future transactions, the problem is BITCOIN distribution and value process, it's not designed to be a currency.  

So please stop telling lies and impossible dreams, let's say the truth together and EVOLVE!
      

[pungopete468]

You're looking at such a narrow field of view that it's impossible to make an informed decision.

Look at the reasons behind the volatility, it's not as simple as "speculators." When mining switched from CPU only to GPU, and then ASIC, it opened up a door for massive ROI in fewer hands. This peaked interest, and encouraged speculation.

Now the mining bubble is collapsing, and mining will become more decentralized again. Unless something else comes along to give a grossly disproportionate hashrate, the market will have no choice but to calm down...

This was more of a Bitcoin "gold rush" than anything, and the type of speculation we witnessed would occur with just about any other asset on the open market when people get that gold rush mentality...

[flipstyle]

Don't bother, OP.  I've already tried one of these 'reality' threads.  And only one taker.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=925405.0


Either shill or have valid arguments completely ignored. That's an order, private!

[BitChick]

Many of us are fairly confident that Bitcoin is evolving into a revolutionary platform that will change so many different things in our world.  The scope of what Bitcoin can accomplish is really quite mind boggling.  Yes it could be another altcoin of some sort that takes off, but that becomes less and less likely as Bitcoin gains traction.  

I am still surprised when I see how many naysayers are out there still posting threads like this.  Obviously they haven't really thought through what the Blockchain offers in just providing a world-wide ledger of transactions taking place.  Bitcoin as a "currency" or even a speculative tool is only a very small part of what it is.  Of course that is what most of us are focusing on right now.  It is hard not too.  But I guess it takes the ability to think beyond what we can see at the present.  It takes people who are capable of being visionary to really "get it" though.

Once Bitcoin does "evolve" into what it is going to become in the future it will become more apparent that we are so early in this.  We should expect, even welcome, the volatility.  It is just part of the growth process. The small piece of the pie that we own can only become more valuable as there is just a limited supply of coins to go around.  We need to keep this in mind.  

[odolvlobo]

Your premises are flawed. Very little of what you wrote can be substantiated by facts. You need to show some supporting evidence before you can claim that others are lying.

But the fact is that MASS ADOPTION WILL NOT COME with actual volatility.

Like it or not, that is not a fact. Since your entire argument is based on this supposed fact, you will need to prove it before anyone can accept your conclusion.

any currency needs a stable value to work. And bitcoin will never be able to do it, because IT'S NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT.

Your claim that "it's not designed for that" is simply not sufficient to support either statement.

The problem is that, as a speculative asset, it's controlled mainly by speculators, whose are interested in high volatilities. This high volatility scares the mass, and without their support, bitcoin will not be a currency. I won't be able to buy oranges, computers or houses with them, because people will not accept this what they call "scam".

More unsubstantiated claims and speculation.

The only solution would be to drive out the speculators of the market, but that's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

Is that the "only" solution to the supposed problem, or is it the only one that you can think of? Maybe a smarter person could come up with a good solution to your non-existent problem.

the problem is BITCOIN distribution and value process, it's not designed to be a currency.

Oh, now it's a problem of distribution! The complaining about early adopters has been going on for years now and it is totally bogus.

[bmarch]

The currency design itself seems honest. The people running early services less so. I guess we're in a process of learning how much we need humans to trust each other - or not - in this century.

[Furio]

You're looking at such a narrow field of view that it's impossible to make an informed decision.

Look at the reasons behind the volatility, it's not as simple as "speculators." When mining switched from CPU only to GPU, and then ASIC, it opened up a door for massive ROI in fewer hands. This peaked interest, and encouraged speculation.

Now the mining bubble is collapsing, and mining will become more decentralized again. Unless something else comes along to give a grossly disproportionate hashrate, the market will have no choice but to calm down...

This was more of a Bitcoin "gold rush" than anything, and the type of speculation we witnessed would occur with just about any other asset on the open market when people get that gold rush mentality...

The big problem in my view is the still tech know-how you absoletely need to ave if you want to do anything with bitcoin. Bitcoin needs the killer ap, to which people without tech interest can simply tranfer money to whoever they like, just like a banking app.

What's also a big problem is the so called btc whales, not the investors, but the innovators. They use their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things, instead of just investing to get bitcoin to a higher level. It's all about greed, just like the fail of communism, the system is perfect, yet man isn't...

[odolvlobo]

What's also a big problem is the so called btc whales, not the investors, but the innovators. They use their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things, instead of just investing to get bitcoin to a higher level. It's all about greed, just like the fail of communism, the system is perfect, yet man isn't...

One day, I would like one of you Don Quixotes to actually name a "whale", and show how they used "their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things". I doubt it will ever happen because I doubt that these Dr. Evil's exist.

[Furio]

What's also a big problem is the so called btc whales, not the investors, but the innovators. They use their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things, instead of just investing to get bitcoin to a higher level. It's all about greed, just like the fail of communism, the system is perfect, yet man isn't...

One day, I would like one of you Don Quixotes to actually name a "whale", and show how they used "their Bitcoin for all sorts of twisted things". I doubt it will ever happen because I doubt that these Dr. Evil's exist.

I mean the starting of mining ponzi's, btc dice sites, all ways to make more money, at the expensive of starters in bitcoin, in stead of building a community... many people who were interested, are now for ever turned of on a decentralized crypto, ones banks will launch it, bye bye decentralized...

[pungopete468]

That's a natural part of every economy... Name a single economy which exists without bad actors?

BTC is still so new that it's entire life span can be viewed on a 1w chart with a clear resolution... It's too soon to start the witch trials...

[twiifm]

Your premises are flawed. Very little of what you wrote can be substantiated by facts. You need to show some supporting evidence before you can claim that others are lying.

But the fact is that MASS ADOPTION WILL NOT COME with actual volatility.

Like it or not, that is not a fact. Since your entire argument is based on this supposed fact, you will need to prove it before anyone can accept your conclusion.

any currency needs a stable value to work. And bitcoin will never be able to do it, because IT'S NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT.

Your claim that "it's not designed for that" is simply not sufficient to support either statement.

The problem is that, as a speculative asset, it's controlled mainly by speculators, whose are interested in high volatilities. This high volatility scares the mass, and without their support, bitcoin will not be a currency. I won't be able to buy oranges, computers or houses with them, because people will not accept this what they call "scam".

More unsubstantiated claims and speculation.

The only solution would be to drive out the speculators of the market, but that's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

Is that the "only" solution to the supposed problem, or is it the only one that you can think of? Maybe a smarter person could come up with a good solution to your non-existent problem.

the problem is BITCOIN distribution and value process, it's not designed to be a currency.

Oh, now it's a problem of distribution! The complaining about early adopters has been going on for years now and it is totally bogus.

He can state its not designed to be stable because its inelastic.  Elasticity requires the currency to be created AND destroyed.  Because theres no central bank the increase of supply is on a fixed schedule and not responding to business cycles.  That is a fact

[odolvlobo]

He can state its not designed to be stable because its inelastic.  Elasticity requires the currency to be created AND destroyed.  Because theres no central bank the increase of supply is on a fixed schedule and not responding to business cycles.  That is a fact

That is not a bad argument, however it is easily countered. Adding another variable (in this case, a central bank) does not automatically make a system stable. Although the purpose of a central bank is to make the currency more stable, it is also a fact that central banks have not succeeded (for a variety of reasons) in maintaining stable currencies.

[CryptKeeper]

I'm not sure about bitcoin as a currency, but the blockchain technology will survive!

There are so much applications besides payment, it's a huge evolution!

[Elwar]

I don't know if it's a currency or not, but I get paid in Bitcoin and I buy things with Bitcoin.

What should I call it instead of a currency?

[JerryCurlzzz]

Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like.

[Furio]

Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like.

This is a very misguided notion, regarding to bitcoin....

[Elwar]

Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like.

This is a very misguided notion, regarding to bitcoin....

How do speculators not provide price discovery and liquidity?

[Furio]

Speculators are a fact of life if the asset should hold any value. We should thank traders for assisting in price discovery and providing liquidity to the exchanges so you and I can buy and sell BTC when we'd like.

This is a very misguided notion, regarding to bitcoin....

How do speculators not provide price discovery and liquidity?

If you mean manipulation and dumping/pumping, then yes offcourse. Yet this is illigal in any market, except bitcoin....

[twiifm]

He can state its not designed to be stable because its inelastic.  Elasticity requires the currency to be created AND destroyed.  Because theres no central bank the increase of supply is on a fixed schedule and not responding to business cycles.  That is a fact

That is not a bad argument, however it is easily countered. Adding another variable (in this case, a central bank) does not automatically make a system stable. Although the purpose of a central bank is to make the currency more stable, it is also a fact that central banks have not succeeded (for a variety of reasons) in maintaining stable currencies.

Its not possible to argue definitively whether Central Bank policies have or have not made currencies stable.  I welcome you to argue they have not succeeded.  But the mechanism is there for them to try.  Economies go from stability to instability as a natural cycle.  Without a counter cyclical mechanism in place you are at the mercy of economic forces. 

[twiifm]

I don't know if it's a currency or not, but I get paid in Bitcoin and I buy things with Bitcoin.

What should I call it instead of a currency?

Private money does exist but its not useful if the majority don't use it.