Milestone crossing for the official bitcoin client

[grantbdev]

As much as I hate gambling in general, SatoshiDice is providing a valuable service to Bitcoin, submitting valid transactions with fees to the network. This is exactly what we want to happen. The blockchain is growing because people are using it. 2 GB blockchain? That's nothing. I want to see a 2 TB blockchain! Bring it on!

Nooo!

I know that the general trend is that harddrive space is going up a lot, but for people like me who decided to be early adopters of SSD (<40 GB) I am slightly concerned about Bitcoin eating up my disk space.

[FreeMoney]

As much as I hate gambling in general, SatoshiDice is providing a valuable service to Bitcoin, submitting valid transactions with fees to the network. This is exactly what we want to happen. The blockchain is growing because people are using it. 2 GB blockchain? That's nothing. I want to see a 2 TB blockchain! Bring it on!

+1 you ain't seen nothing yet.

It's going to be huge and there are going to be awesome solutions for all needs.

[capsqrl]

I know that the general trend is that harddrive space is going up a lot, but for people like me who decided to be early adopters of SSD (<40 GB) I am slightly concerned about Bitcoin eating up my disk space.

So you don't have equipment for a full client. In the future, you'll be in the vast majority. Just run an SPV client, nothing bad about that.

[johnyj]

The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork

Where is this 1MB max block size coming from? And for how long it can hold?

Take a look at the latest blocks, a block with 400 transactions will reach 250KB in size, but 400 transactions in 10 minute is nothing if compared with a small stock exchange which typically can handle 1000 transactions in 1 second.

It means we are going to see at least 1000 times increase in size of each block if BTC's scale is to match one of those smaller stock exchanges

[FreeMoney]

Milestone coming up today. We'll be just 1 million coins away from the drop.

[deepceleron]

The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork

Where is this 1MB max block size coming from? And for how long it can hold?

Take a look at the latest blocks, a block with 400 transactions will reach 250KB in size, but 400 transactions in 10 minute is nothing if compared with a small stock exchange which typically can handle 1000 transactions in 1 second.

It means we are going to see at least 1000 times increase in size of each block if BTC's scale is to match one of those smaller stock exchanges

----------------------------------------
Find 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp' :
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp(433):     if (::GetSerializeSize(*this, SER_NETWORK, PROTOCOL_VERSION) > MAX_BLOCK_SIZE)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp(1663):     if (vtx.empty() || vtx.size() > MAX_BLOCK_SIZE || ::GetSerializeSize(*this, SER_NETWORK, PROTOCOL_VERSION) > MAX_BLOCK_SIZE)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp(3280):             if (nBlockSize + nTxSize >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN)
Found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 4 time(s).
----------------------------------------
Find 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h':
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(29): static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIZE = 1000000;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(30): static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/2;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(31): static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIGOPS = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/50;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(32): static const unsigned int MAX_ORPHAN_TRANSACTIONS = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/100;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(575):         if (nBlockSize != 1 && nNewBlockSize >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN/2)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(577):             if (nNewBlockSize >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(579):             nMinFee *= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN / (MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN - nNewBlockSize);
Found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 9 time(s).
----------------------------------------
Find 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\wallet.cpp':
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\wallet.cpp(1127):                 if (nBytes >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN/5)
Found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 1 time(s).
Search complete, found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 14 time(s). (3 file(s)).

[johnyj]

The maximum block chain growth[1] is about 1GB per week.

[1] given 1MB max block size, which cannot be changed without a hard fork

Where is this 1MB max block size coming from? And for how long it can hold?

Take a look at the latest blocks, a block with 400 transactions will reach 250KB in size, but 400 transactions in 10 minute is nothing if compared with a small stock exchange which typically can handle 1000 transactions in 1 second.

It means we are going to see at least 1000 times increase in size of each block if BTC's scale is to match one of those smaller stock exchanges

----------------------------------------
Find 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp' :
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp(433):     if (::GetSerializeSize(*this, SER_NETWORK, PROTOCOL_VERSION) > MAX_BLOCK_SIZE)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp(1663):     if (vtx.empty() || vtx.size() > MAX_BLOCK_SIZE || ::GetSerializeSize(*this, SER_NETWORK, PROTOCOL_VERSION) > MAX_BLOCK_SIZE)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.cpp(3280):             if (nBlockSize + nTxSize >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN)
Found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 4 time(s).
----------------------------------------
Find 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h':
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(29): static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIZE = 1000000;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(30): static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/2;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(31): static const unsigned int MAX_BLOCK_SIGOPS = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/50;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(32): static const unsigned int MAX_ORPHAN_TRANSACTIONS = MAX_BLOCK_SIZE/100;
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(575):         if (nBlockSize != 1 && nNewBlockSize >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN/2)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(577):             if (nNewBlockSize >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN)
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\main.h(579):             nMinFee *= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN / (MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN - nNewBlockSize);
Found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 9 time(s).
----------------------------------------
Find 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' in 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\wallet.cpp':
C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\src\wallet.cpp(1127):                 if (nBytes >= MAX_BLOCK_SIZE_GEN/5)
Found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 1 time(s).
Search complete, found 'MAX_BLOCK_SIZE' 14 time(s). (3 file(s)).

OK, at least this part is scalable, I guess in the future it will more likely to be hosted on a data center like those banks do today, distributed data center maybe

[jgarzik]

Where is this 1MB max block size coming from? And for how long it can hold?

All clients will reject blocks larger than 1MB as invalid.

Changing this is known as a "hard fork" change, something to be avoided because it knocks old clients off the network, limiting their access to their own bitcoins, and creates other technical problems.

[capsqrl]

All clients will reject blocks larger than 1MB as invalid.

Changing this is known as a "hard fork" change, something to be avoided because it knocks old clients off the network, limiting their access to their own bitcoins, and creates other technical problems.

I'm struggling to understand how this is not viewed as an impending catastrophe for Bitcoin. 1MB can only hold so many transactions, and there are already some blocks that are half that size. That would seem to mean that transaction volume can barely double from today's puny number before transactions are queued up for ages or even discarded unless they have juicy transaction fees. Of course a hardfork is highly undesirable, but don't you think it will have to happen, eventually?

[drrussellshane]

All clients will reject blocks larger than 1MB as invalid.

Changing this is known as a "hard fork" change, something to be avoided because it knocks old clients off the network, limiting their access to their own bitcoins, and creates other technical problems.

I'm struggling to understand how this is not viewed as an impending catastrophe for Bitcoin. 1MB can only hold so many transactions, and there are already some blocks that are half that size. That would seem to mean that transaction volume can barely double from today's puny number before transactions are queued up for ages or even discarded unless they have juicy transaction fees. Of course a hardfork is highly undesirable, but don't you think it will have to happen, eventually?

I agree... this sounds like quite a problem.... ?

[FreeMoney]

All clients will reject blocks larger than 1MB as invalid.

Changing this is known as a "hard fork" change, something to be avoided because it knocks old clients off the network, limiting their access to their own bitcoins, and creates other technical problems.

I'm struggling to understand how this is not viewed as an impending catastrophe for Bitcoin. 1MB can only hold so many transactions, and there are already some blocks that are half that size. That would seem to mean that transaction volume can barely double from today's puny number before transactions are queued up for ages or even discarded unless they have juicy transaction fees. Of course a hardfork is highly undesirable, but don't you think it will have to happen, eventually?

I think it will happen. In the meantime it is a guarantee that the chain can't get to some stupid size overnight.

It's no catastrophe, just means that some people will start to economize, not make 1 cent deposits and tiny bets to places or send their money back and forth for 'practice'.

[unclemantis]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2ei59BEH4tU/Tf83itgomGI/AAAAAAAAAWE/3kSJxRbyL_E/s1600/Duplos.jpg

[kjj]

Once the block size limit is approached, miners will prioritize transactions based on fees.  Actually, they'll probably do that for other reasons long before it becomes necessary because of block size.

And there are several other potential reasons why we might need to do a hard fork in the future, so we can bundle them up if we need to.

[deepceleron]

Welcome to my hard drive, blk0002.dat.

Welcome to my hard drive, blk0003.dat

[Diapolo]

Welcome to my hard drive, blk0002.dat.

Welcome to my hard drive, blk0003.dat

Holy shit, that growth is scaring ^^.

Dia

[Come-from-Beyond]

Topic: Milestone crossing for the official bitcoin client

Please, stop fooling neophytes. There is no such thing as official bitcoin client.

[DeathAndTaxes]

All clients will reject blocks larger than 1MB as invalid.

Changing this is known as a "hard fork" change, something to be avoided because it knocks old clients off the network, limiting their access to their own bitcoins, and creates other technical problems.

I'm struggling to understand how this is not viewed as an impending catastrophe for Bitcoin. 1MB can only hold so many transactions, and there are already some blocks that are half that size. That would seem to mean that transaction volume can barely double from today's puny number before transactions are queued up for ages or even discarded unless they have juicy transaction fees. Of course a hardfork is highly undesirable, but don't you think it will have to happen, eventually?

While some blocks may be 512KB that vast majority aren't.

If the average tx is ~512 bytes then 1 MB = 2000 tx per block.  24 * 6 * 2,000 = 288,000 tx per day.  That is roughly 7x to 8x current volume. 

The purpose of the hard fork is to ensure the network doesn't explode out of control due to a bug, unknown spam vulnerability.  Imagine if someone found a flaw in the spam rules and was able to spam 80 TB of tx.  Ooops.  Sorry new users you need to download 80 TB or you can't join Bitcoin.   Likewise if there was no max block size one could simply mine their own 1 GB blocks and even with only 1% of the network could add one or two of these every single day.  First year blockchain size = 1GB * (24*6*365*1%) = 525 GB (plus real tx volume).

The hard fork will be made in time but it will be a planned transition where miners vote by indicating their support in a flag in the block header.  Once some large (80%?) of miners support the new larger blocks and clients supporting the new blocks have been out a hardcoded date can be added to the client (i.e. 10MB blocks are supported starting in block 400,001).

[MPOE-PR]

The hard fork will be made in time but it will be a planned transition where miners vote by indicating their support in a flag in the block header.  Once some large (80%?) of miners support the new larger blocks and clients supporting the new blocks have been out a hardcoded date can be added to the client (i.e. 10MB blocks are supported starting in block 400,001).

Seems unlikely the 1mb limit will ever be removed.

[justusranvier]

Seems unlikely the 1mb limit will ever be removed.

That would be unfortunate. Bitcoin will never be anything more than a toy currency with that limit in place.

[MPOE-PR]

Seems unlikely the 1mb limit will ever be removed.

That would be unfortunate. Bitcoin will never be anything more than a toy currency with that limit in place.

Not a toy currency, but quite the contrary. You don't trade SDR with your bartender currently, for instance, that doesn't make SDRs a "toy" currency.

Bitcoin is the currency of record, and as such it is to be used directly only by the very rich moving significant bits around. The consumer's needs are probably best handled by the currently existing infrastructure, Visa, paypal etc, except this time backed by the real deal (aka, Bitcoin) rather than by the worthless faith and missing credit of some rogue state or other.

Just like anyone wanting to open a Bitcoin exchange can buy a few S.DICE shares on MPEx and then offer a passthrough, just so any bank of the future will be buying a little Bitcoin and then offering the public various toy currencies, dollars, euros, whatever.