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Author Topic: Class action Litigation vs. Bitcoinica Consultancy LTD & Intersango LTD  (Read 24981 times)
DrFred
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July 16, 2012, 12:15:53 PM
 #121

My balance there was 98.19023272 BTC. No USD and no positions. Not really much money to contribute to this effort, but I'll help however I can.
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July 16, 2012, 01:06:31 PM
 #122

We want to make it clear we won't stand for the business owners to steal from us, directly or indirectly?

How many of these cons do you want the community to endure before we take a stand?  The money is already gone -make those responsible for losing it pay.

Do you have any proof of the fact that they're stealing from you? If not, the most you can do is "gross negligence" as to be practically criminal. Anything beyond that is just tinhattery.  Remember, stupidity on an epic scale is really indistinguishable from malice.

Every day they don't contact the police is gross negligence.  As officers of a corporation, they are required to protect the corporation.  Not calling the police is a derelict of duty, and they will be held responsible, civilly at least.

As for the proof, it is coming together.  For example, they had two factor authentication turned on for their MTGox account, then for some reason they turned it off before the "theft" occurred. 

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lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)
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July 16, 2012, 01:12:19 PM
 #123

naima53: I put you on the list and send you the details later today
DrFred: Your claim is probably too low to be included in the process, but I'll ask the others

Anyone: If you have a significant claim and are interested in resolving the issue, please contact me. We represent a significant proportion of the deposits owed by Bitcoinica and are attempting to pool our resources for a single action.
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July 16, 2012, 02:23:02 PM
 #124

naima53: I put you on the list ...
Thank you, I sincerely hope to still get my money back. Owners have left too many traces. I think their place is better now to think about the consequences. And to return all lost.

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muyuu
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July 16, 2012, 02:53:55 PM
 #125

Lawyers are going to be very expensive and what if the "investors" don't have any money to make you whole?

Thats what I plan to find out, and to find who can be considered criminally liable for the latest hack.

The tragedy of this route is that on the one hand it's the only active route that bitcoinica users can pursue at this point, but on the other hand I think it reduces the odds of anyone getting anything back.

its quite unfortunate and you're correct, but at this point I have absolutely 0 faith in the bitcoinica consultancy, I hate lawyers too but I at least respect that they can sometimes get things done.
Genjix stated multiple times, that Patrick and/or Donald where the one that did constantly delay the payout. Maybe this process can now be faster, since at least Patrick is gone. So hopefully genjix assumes that he is now authorized to do the actual payouts and does it without further delay.

Tihan and Zhou both specifically told Patrick and Donald to refund my 24,841 bitcoins,  but Donald and Patrick both refused.
One day after legal action was threatened,  they announced this hack.
Cause,  or coincidence?

Mate... 24,841. My thoughts are with you.

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kiba
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July 16, 2012, 03:42:28 PM
 #126

As for the proof, it is coming together.  For example, they had two factor authentication turned on for their MTGox account, then for some reason they turned it off before the "theft" occurred.  

Doesn't matter. Grand epic stupidity is still the default scenario here, unless you got the smoking gun that there is an inside job.

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July 16, 2012, 03:48:40 PM
 #127

well i had $1205 and 205BTC in there and no payout, i am no longer hopeful that it will progress any further either.

I cannot contribute any money to this effort just though i should share

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July 16, 2012, 03:55:46 PM
 #128

I wrote here a few times that "to buy" for all clients' money. Maybe later, but they did. Just speculate. This is bad from an ethical point of view, but it could well solve the problem (and is still in force)

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iamapi
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July 17, 2012, 12:37:12 PM
 #129

My balance there was a little more than 150 BTC. I'll help if I can.

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July 18, 2012, 09:54:36 AM
 #130

My balance was 450 BTC, no open positions. All deposits made by mtgox codes. I'm interested in joining the process too.
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July 18, 2012, 10:55:38 AM
 #131

Hi,

Sorry for the hiatus, but I had to take a break to preserve my mental sanity. Here's the update:

Quote
Update: here's the facts from my point of view:

- Patrick quit.
- Zhou quit.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
- Bitcoinica Consultancy were the new operators coming onboard, and the company was formed after the compromise to facilitate payments out.
- Bitcoinica LP is the owner.

The payments process is at a deadlock. Technically when a company is in debt, and cannot pay off its debtors in full, it hands the process to the government (called receivership). Bitcoinica LP would have to make a police report, and hand over the payments process as the owners.

That's it basically. Just a standstill.

Let me know if you have any suggestions.
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July 18, 2012, 10:59:22 AM
 #132

Let me know if you have any suggestions.
I suggest making sure you're not solvent Smiley

John (John K.)
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July 18, 2012, 10:59:33 AM
 #133

Hi,

Sorry for the hiatus, but I had to take a break to preserve my mental sanity. Here's the update:

Quote
Update: here's the facts from my point of view:

- Patrick quit.
- Zhou quit.
- Tihan was fired, and no longer acting on behalf of Bitcoinica LP.
- Bitcoinica Consultancy were the new operators coming onboard, and the company was formed after the compromise to facilitate payments out.
- Bitcoinica LP is the owner.

The payments process is at a deadlock. Technically when a company is in debt, and cannot pay off its debtors in full, it hands the process to the government (called receivership). Bitcoinica LP would have to make a police report, and hand over the payments process as the owners.

That's it basically. Just a standstill.

Let me know if you have any suggestions.
Sane question before the trolls come in: Is Bitcoinica LP is heading for a receivership?

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July 18, 2012, 11:05:17 AM
 #134

Was Patrick handling the claims process by himself ?


genjix
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July 18, 2012, 11:19:15 AM
 #135

Sane question before the trolls come in: Is Bitcoinica LP is heading for a receivership?

I don't have the contact of anyone from Bitcoinica LP to ask them...

Also what's up with Donald?

We don't think it's a good idea now to touch the funds from Bitcoinica. We probably shouldn't have even taken on the claims process in the first place, but the pressure was immense and we wanted people to get paid back.

Was Patrick handling the claims process by himself ?

No, multiple people had access to the claims process (including me). However, I believe it was Patrick and Tihan who had access to the funds. I'm don't think Tihan actually sent any payments. I think Patrick did all the MtGox USD payments, whereas BTC was done by many people (due to how bitcoins work).
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July 18, 2012, 11:24:05 AM
 #136

Who owns Bitcoinica LP  Huh

Im confused since no one seems to be taking ownership of it.

Lethos
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July 18, 2012, 12:34:47 PM
 #137

Who owns Bitcoinica LP  Huh

Im confused since no one seems to be taking ownership of it.

Do you think any involved want to be left holding this hot potato?
No, of course not. Everyone is trying to run, if they they can, before that hot potato is thrown in their direction.

From what genjix said, I think he means the original team, own it right now, but they all quit or was fired...

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HorseRider
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July 18, 2012, 04:38:20 PM
 #138

All the people know the fact that lastpass master key=API key should explain when the hack happened, what was they doing and who was they hanging out with.

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July 18, 2012, 04:42:53 PM
 #139

All the people know the fact that lastpass master key=API key should explain when the hack happened, what was they doing and who was they hang out with.

At the very least they could post the log from LastPass that should show someone other than the owner logged into it....

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July 18, 2012, 05:28:54 PM
 #140


What exactly shall be the goal to be reached by legal action?
Please clarify!

  • (1) we want to destroy Intersango exchange
  • (2) we want to ruin Core credit finnancially
  • (3) we want to destroy the reputation of Zhoutong, Tihan, Donald, Patrick and Amir and turn them into "persona non grata"
  • (4) we want to destroy the economical existence of above mentioned people
  • (5) we want to force those folks to collaborate with the police to chase the hacker(s) and put them in jail
  • (6) we want to construct a case of precedence, so that in future no 17-year old entrepreneur without proper business education and governmental approvement can start a hightly profitable business.
  • (7) we want to get our money back

Just decide on what the real goal should be.
Then decide what strategy could lead us to that goal,
and if it is feasible and likely to reach that goal.

Plesase, folks, really do that, instead of
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
guessing
...one hundred further pages in this forum....



7, we are all for 7, we couldn't care less about anything else.

LOL. At this point, there isn't really going to be any money to be returned, so I have no idea how you guys think that is a viable goal of a lawsuit.

IMO, the real goal should be preventing these people from losing (or more likely stealing) customer funds again. IMO, the correct way to prevent this is incarceration of the guilty parties

When someone has a criminal proceeding started, I'll be much more interested. Until then, I suspect this is a massive waste of time - there's no one left to sue.

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