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Question: Should people related to bitcoinica have a scammer tag?
Yes. - 148 (63.5%)
No. - 55 (23.6%)
I don't care. - 30 (12.9%)
Total Voters: 230

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Author Topic: SCAMMER TAG: bitoinica  (Read 8666 times)
disclaimer201
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July 18, 2012, 12:47:11 PM
 #81

Bulanula received the scammer tag for much less. The fact that you wouldn't report a hundred-thousand dollar theft to the police alone deserves them the scammer tag.
I like genjix too, but he sits in the same boat as the rest of the crew I'm afraid.

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July 18, 2012, 12:49:57 PM
 #82

Bulanula received the scammer tag for much less. The fact that you wouldn't report a hundred-thousand dollar theft to the police alone deserves them the scammer tag.
I like genjix too, but he sits in the same boat as the rest of the crew I'm afraid.

Nice to see I am not the only one that sees the hypocrisy and unfairness here.

I don't give two potatoes about the tag but I care about being treated differently just because of what exactly ? I don't know ...

With them facing legal action and being in huge shit storm over Bitcoinica incident you would think some people would want others to be warned about dangers of using Intersango now.

Not that Gox is any better ( I have no agenda here just don't want more people to lose more BTC ).
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July 18, 2012, 03:42:37 PM
 #83

Has anyone received funds back yet ? I dont know about a scammer label but maybe a "Consumer Alert" or "Under Review"  is warranted untill the claims process is dealt with.



Some people have posted that they've received 50% of their claim back.  I don't think anyone knows how the latest compromise will affect the payout process other than the fact that payouts will be reduced.

I don't see any point in giving Bitcoinica as an entity a scammer tag.  It's not operating at the moment.  It's just a brand name.  It may never resume trading and if it does it may be under the control of parties who were unrelated to this series of disasters.  If the same principals were to launch a similar endeavour or relaunch Bitcoinica then I think that a cautionary note would be appropriate but it would be meaningless right now.



You reasoning is wrong. Some of the same people run Intersango. Their customers deserve a warning, or do they not? So, if Bitcoinica was a scam, which more likely than not it was, then it is very much necessary and meaningful to give a scammer tag to these individuals and consequently to Intersango LTD. Either it was a scam (which most people by now have agreed upon) or it wasn't. After reading 76+ pages of so called "security" investigation and "payout" threads for over 2 months, there is little to nothing that can prove these guys are innocent. In fact, you even get a pretty good picture of their personalities, particularly about one very cranky, and arrogant, and even blackmailing Patrick.

Company name changes on the day of the hack? OMG.

Hacked three times in a row, unlocked accounts after the second hack? Come on. How naive do you have to be to buy into that story? When do we see the scammer tag applied? Who is responsible for it on this forum?

Failure to report a theft to the police seriously suggests involvement in the crime. IMO, the chief suspects in this crime are THE ENTIRE BITCOINICA TEAM.

And, no - the story is now completely fucking implausible. I refuse to believe these people are that fucking stupid.

I've also seen how phantomcircuit acts around legal issues - I bet that guy was REALLY CAREFUL about creating evidence to tie himself to criminal wrongdoing. But, his attitude seriously makes me think him MORE than capable and willing to be involved. IMO, anyone who is that careful with what he says, and how he says it, is usually carefully covering his tracks and making sure he doesn't misspeak, or divulge real incriminating evidence.

But, on the other hand, it seems that we're all good to "trust our friends" - and like in the case of bitconiica, give them preferential treatment. I would expect no less favoritism to be shown here on the forums.

I'm glad I wrote off the money after the first hack - though I've hoped a couple times to actually get it back, it seemed obvious then that it was an inside job, and I have seen nothing to change this. I suppose the thing that most surprises me is that they actually had enough funds still somewhere "verifiable" to have another loss (i.e mtgox) - I really expected to find that all the claims of theft were false, and simply to cover up the glaring absence of customer funds (which I believe were depleted LONG BEFORE THE FIRST HACK)

Anyhow, I pretty much don't see the point in any of this. No one is getting anymore money back, and no one is going to listen about these guys. Intersango will eventually close, and customers will lose funds there, but no one will listen, so they'll lose those funds with or without a scammer tag. (but I'm quite sure the whole team deserves to be listed, because THEY ARE ALL FAILING TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH (including genjix)

They have withheld information. phantomcircuit said "it's too complicated"

Lies usually are too complicated to really tell effectively.

The truth will set you free.

Scammers or not, they're all a bunch of liars.

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July 19, 2012, 05:30:06 PM
 #84


We should drop the effort of applying a SCAMMER tag.

In the light of the recently disclosed internal documents, it looks even more unlikely that the directly visible persons were acting with the goal of fraud or stealing money from their customers. From all real evidence available now, at least Amir, Patrick, Donald and Tihan don't appear as people pursuiting criminal goals. Running a buisness not "optimally" can mean a lot, but it's not a crime, for sure.

Having said that, it is still possible that the hacker(s) are lossely connected to the visible actors and got some insider information, which he/they exploited for their personal benefit. All I want to state is that it looks rather unlikely that the known actors were cooperating with the hacker(s). The fact that proves that most strongly is that they cared so less for P.R. and information. Someone wanting to cover up tracks will concentrate on letting things appear in the right light, instead of concentrating on a tedious puzzle game of piecing together the missing informations on the accounts and claims.


Disclaimer: I do not approve the hack or sympatise with the hacker(s) in any way.
These are the people which should be hunted and chased.

cryptoanarchist
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July 19, 2012, 07:23:22 PM
 #85


We should drop the effort of applying a SCAMMER tag.


Luckily, you're in the minority. My guess is you're one of their sockpuppet accounts.

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July 19, 2012, 07:24:04 PM
 #86


We should drop the effort of applying a SCAMMER tag.


Luckily, you're in the minority. My guess is you're one of their sockpuppet accounts.


Cool, can I be a sockpuppet account too?
FWIW, scammer tag is not the solution here.

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July 19, 2012, 07:26:27 PM
 #87

We should drop the effort of applying a SCAMMER tag.
Luckily, you're in the minority. My guess is you're one of their sockpuppet accounts.
Cool, can I be a sockpuppet account too?
no, your post count is too high.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 23, 2012, 11:31:34 AM
 #88

I won't even read through five pages of scapegoat-bashing.

1) Don't play with more than you are comfortable to lose
2) If any tag whatsoever would be grated at this early time, a "has been hacked" or "in dept" one is all I can see here.

Ente
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July 24, 2012, 04:20:58 AM
 #89

At the very least bitocintalk.com should freeze all accounts of those involved with Bitcoinica before all the posts disappear.  If I am not mistaken though, even if the posts are deleted they are still stored in the database.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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July 27, 2012, 05:35:38 PM
 #90

Considering the recent developments/facts a scammer tag now seems even more appropriate...

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July 27, 2012, 11:28:34 PM
 #91

Yep - IMO, there should be scammer tags applied, and the accounts locked to prevent alteration of data.

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July 30, 2012, 08:28:47 AM
 #92

Sadly this probably won't happen anytime soon... theymos sold eight ad slots to Zhoutong...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94475.20

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February 28, 2013, 05:47:53 PM
 #93

http://coinlab.com/investors


Has everyone been CLEARED?

Now... MtGox is selling out it's US and Canadian users... shouldn't anyone take notice?

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February 28, 2013, 09:50:26 PM
 #94

http://coinlab.com/investors

Has everyone been CLEARED?

Now... MtGox is selling out it's US and Canadian users... shouldn't anyone take notice?

Nothing to see here! Mt. Gox simply declared the Bitcoinica coins as assets. The new orders will simply put the coins back on the liability side of the ledger. Basic accounting, that's all. It all balances out in the long, long, long, long.. run.
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May 05, 2013, 06:35:51 PM
 #95

Has there been any updates?
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May 05, 2013, 11:55:07 PM
 #96

Has there been any updates?

The second liquidator's report is due soon, which should update people on where things are at and any barriers to the progress of the liquidation.

Amir has started a thread talking about Bitcoinica and Patrick has chimed in saying that the MtGox intrusion wasn't due to the source code being leaked. It will be interesting to see whether they disclose enough information for criminal action to be taken against the intruder.

According to documents filed recently in the Cartmell action, Bitcoinica Consultancy is now in liquidation too.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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November 10, 2013, 04:43:36 PM
 #97

There isn't any evidence they scammed people..

There is now. And if Strateman and Taaki had had a scammer tag last spring, I wouldn't have been scammed.

Strateman locked me out of my Intersango account. I should imagine because he spent my bitcoins already. The bitcoins I need for a sick dog I rescued. The story is in my sig.

I'm not planning on suing, but on an arrest followed by confiscation and redistribution of stolen bitcoins (as bitcoins not fiat) from any of his enterprises the court decides might have been criminal.

Anyone who wants to help can email me whatever evidence they think might be good for getting a conviction  to..

i c e m a i d e n (number) z e r o (number) s e v e n at g m a i l dot you know what.

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November 10, 2013, 04:52:25 PM
 #98

There isn't any evidence they scammed people..

There is now. And if Strateman and Taaki had had a scammer tag last spring, I wouldn't have been scammed.

Strateman locked me out of my Intersango account. I should imagine because he spent my bitcoins already. The bitcoins I need for a sick dog I rescued. The story is in my sig.

I'm not planning on suing, but on an arrest followed by confiscation and redistribution of stolen bitcoins (as bitcoins not fiat) from any of his enterprises the court decides might have been criminal.

Anyone who wants to help can email me whatever evidence they think might be good for getting a conviction  to..

i c e m a i d e n (number) z e r o (number) s e v e n at g m a i l dot you know what.

There is now? Have there been any court rulings in this case finally? Generally, I have no idea why bitcointalk, otherwise a great forum, is so slow in protecting its members against big shot scammers. I feel it could have something to do with affiliation and conferences and business relations. Not good.

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November 10, 2013, 06:15:18 PM
 #99

There isn't any evidence they scammed people..

There is now. And if Strateman and Taaki had had a scammer tag last spring, I wouldn't have been scammed.

Strateman locked me out of my Intersango account. I should imagine because he spent my bitcoins already. The bitcoins I need for a sick dog I rescued. The story is in my sig.

I'm not planning on suing, but on an arrest followed by confiscation and redistribution of stolen bitcoins (as bitcoins not fiat) from any of his enterprises the court decides might have been criminal.

Anyone who wants to help can email me whatever evidence they think might be good for getting a conviction  to..

i c e m a i d e n (number) z e r o (number) s e v e n at g m a i l dot you know what.

There is now? Have there been any court rulings in this case finally? Generally, I have no idea why bitcointalk, otherwise a great forum, is so slow in protecting its members against big shot scammers. I feel it could have something to do with affiliation and conferences and business relations. Not good.

No court rulings. I'm going for an arrest. I don't have time to wait. Anyone who feels similarly aggrieved, should, I think, be welcome to add to my initial complaint. This being a criminal matter, involving lots of nice money the state will be keen to get its hands on, I say we light the blue touchpaper, stand well back, then claim our property after forfeiture.

I think it was a serious misjudgment of Strateman's to hand someone such a clear-cut piece of evidence. You can argue all day about who might have been responsible for the Bitcoinica disaster, but appropriating my bitcoins from Intersango? That can only be one person. Who was also at the scene of some previous appropriations. Point out the pattern to a judge and Steve_bobs your uncle.. [1]

Smiley

[1] English term. "Bob's your uncle" = "job done".

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