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Question: Should people related to bitcoinica have a scammer tag?
Yes. - 148 (63.5%)
No. - 55 (23.6%)
I don't care. - 30 (12.9%)
Total Voters: 230

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Author Topic: SCAMMER TAG: bitoinica  (Read 8677 times)
kokjo
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July 13, 2012, 04:11:55 PM
 #1

bitcoinica still owes me 40 btc, im one of the lucky ones i got 50% . the lasted hack seemed like a inside job(and it the rest of the catastrophe could be too). im now suggesting a scammer tag of all persons related to bitcoinica(genjix, phantomcircut, zhou, donald...), at least until they have payed us back at least 100%.

i would suggest that you post all the evidence you have against them in this thread so that the mods can make an informed oppinion about the suggested scammer tag(that was what BadBear said we should). it would also be good to have all the evidence in one place, if(WHEN!!!) authorities gets involved.

also plese put in your sigs how much bitcoinica owes you if you like(see my sig).

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 13, 2012, 04:25:29 PM
 #2

Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.

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July 13, 2012, 04:31:38 PM
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well maybe rjk. perhaps those with the huge holdings are just still in shock/denial about the whole affair and hope is the easiest option.

its all very well for me to sweep my tiny 7.5btc loss under the carpet and see this as pretty obvious insider action from a neutral point of view but maybe I wouldn't want to hear any such 'told you so' logical talk if I had 7.5k btc in there...


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July 13, 2012, 04:32:08 PM
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Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.
you may be right, but that would be because if you don't have much too loose you can afford to be straight out. On the other hand if you do have much too loose you gonna be careful on what to say.


They owe me 9 btc (and maybe 5 dollars).

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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July 13, 2012, 04:33:55 PM
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I'm not saying whether anyone should be angry (they have every right to be), but I don't think some aspects are being approached correctly or maturely.

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kokjo
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July 13, 2012, 04:40:39 PM
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Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.
you may be right, but that would be because if you don't have much too loose you can afford to be straight out. On the other hand if you do have much too loose you gonna be careful on what to say.
excacly! i have already given up on my 40 btc, but it would be nice to have them back(i don't really have alot of money)

@rjk: fuck you, that 40 btc is more then i have in my bank account, im a poor student, asshole! Roger would survive his losses.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 13, 2012, 04:44:28 PM
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Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.
you may be right, but that would be because if you don't have much too loose you can afford to be straight out. On the other hand if you do have much too loose you gonna be careful on what to say.
excacly! i have already given up on my 40 btc, but it would be nice to have them back(i don't really have alot of money)

@rjk: fuck you, that 40 btc is more then i have in my bank account, im a poor student, asshole! Roger would survive his losses.

I'm not saying whether anyone should be angry (they have every right to be), but I don't think some aspects are being approached correctly or maturely.

QED

You are making stupid assumptions.

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July 13, 2012, 04:46:43 PM
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Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.
you may be right, but that would be because if you don't have much too loose you can afford to be straight out. On the other hand if you do have much too loose you gonna be careful on what to say.
excacly! i have already given up on my 40 btc, but it would be nice to have them back(i don't really have alot of money)

@rjk: fuck you, that 40 btc is more then i have in my bank account, im a poor student, asshole! Roger would survive his losses.

o.0 the whiny little kids come out to play. Who didn't follow the #1 rule of investment "Don't play with funds you can't afford to loose!"

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July 13, 2012, 04:54:57 PM
 #9

Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.
you may be right, but that would be because if you don't have much too loose you can afford to be straight out. On the other hand if you do have much too loose you gonna be careful on what to say.


They owe me 9 btc (and maybe 5 dollars).

This is EXACTLY is...  well put..

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kokjo
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July 13, 2012, 05:03:48 PM
 #10

Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.
you may be right, but that would be because if you don't have much too loose you can afford to be straight out. On the other hand if you do have much too loose you gonna be careful on what to say.
excacly! i have already given up on my 40 btc, but it would be nice to have them back(i don't really have alot of money)

@rjk: fuck you, that 40 btc is more then i have in my bank account, im a poor student, asshole! Roger would survive his losses.

o.0 the whiny little kids come out to play. Who didn't follow the #1 rule of investment "Don't play with funds you can't afford to loose!"
im perfectly capable of dealing with losses. i had a stop order. but i kind of expected that i would have access to my money.

and no im not whining, i have accepted my loss(but it would still be a great to have them back), because of the fuck up they made, and i hope that the community will never ever trust them again.

it is my right to be angry of their incompetence.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
kokjo
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July 13, 2012, 05:11:09 PM
 #11

should i remove Zhou, from the post? i seems innocent, and even trying to pay people back with his own funds. but he still could be the inside person, because he have intimate knowlegde of the system... or be somehow related to the mess.

what to do?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 13, 2012, 05:18:31 PM
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Ah yes, the primal need to have a scapegoat. It's weird how the poor people with the fewest lost coins are the loudest and most assholish in general, whereas the ones that have lost the most (such as Roger) are at least somewhat civil and polite.
you may be right, but that would be because if you don't have much too loose you can afford to be straight out. On the other hand if you do have much too loose you gonna be careful on what to say.
excacly! i have already given up on my 40 btc, but it would be nice to have them back(i don't really have alot of money)

@rjk: fuck you, that 40 btc is more then i have in my bank account, im a poor student, asshole! Roger would survive his losses.

o.0 the whiny little kids come out to play. Who didn't follow the #1 rule of investment "Don't play with funds you can't afford to loose!"
im perfectly capable of dealing with losses. i had a stop order. but i kind of expected that i would have access to my money.

and no im not whining, i have accepted my loss(but it would still be a great to have them back), because of the fuck up they made, and i hope that the community will never ever trust them again.

it is my right to be angry of their incompetence.

Only too true  Cry

However given the to date handling of the bitcoinica train wreck and something like https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65867.0 where the scamming is even more blatant than the bitcoinica mess Bitcoinica hardly rates tagging or even talk of it, if that other thread is a rule of thumb for how admins here apply their "judgement".

Personally I don't believe there has been any actual scamming at all here, more it all being the misplacement of funds with people much too young, incompetent and inexperienced to deal with an actual business.

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July 13, 2012, 05:27:30 PM
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I really don't know what kind of penalty this will be or what pain this should cause to them.

I suppose they really don't know what to do, they have no concept at all...

I'm waiting for refunding my 64.01 btc and it maters much to me... but a scammer-tag? for what...

„Würden die Menschen das Geldsystem verstehen, hätten wir eine Revolution noch vor morgen früh.“

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July 13, 2012, 05:32:46 PM
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I'm waiting for refunding my 64.01 btc and it maters much to me... but a scammer-tag? for what...
damage their reputation, so no one will ever deal with them again, and they will die old sad and lonely...

i also would have suggest that their should have their balls cut off, so their could not reproduce. but i think its illegal.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 13, 2012, 05:37:37 PM
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Scammer tag is long overdue. No security experts can be so careless to allow this to happen. Fool me once...., but fool me three times in a fucking row???

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July 13, 2012, 05:37:54 PM
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I voted no because they did return some of what the owe which is commendable given their predicament. I also value the principle of innocent until proven guilty and I haven't seen any proof yet that they are guilty of a scam.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

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July 13, 2012, 05:47:28 PM
 #17

I voted no because they did return some of what the owe which is commendable given their predicament. I also value the principle of innocent until proven guilty and I haven't seen any proof yet that they are guilty of a scam.
You clearly don't understand mob rule.

There are no legal proceedings in place yet. Problem is how to convince a curt to accept "playmoney" as value.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
kokjo
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July 13, 2012, 05:52:26 PM
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I voted no because they did return some of what the owe which is commendable given their predicament. I also value the principle of innocent until proven guilty and I haven't seen any proof yet that they are guilty of a scam.
You clearly don't understand mob rule.

There are no legal proceedings in place yet. Problem is how to convince a curt to accept "playmoney" as value.
the frenchmen have already been onto mtgox even with their involvment with playmoney.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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July 13, 2012, 05:59:03 PM
 #19

I don't want to see Zhou get one, he wasn't proveably involved and he sold the site long before the hack.

For all of the current management, I believe they should be given scammer tags unless they're willing to disclose:

- The management structure at Bitcoinica, who is involved, who was involved.
- A police report number. Two hacks in two months needs to be reported to the proper authorities. Seems very suspicious that a group of statists who have yearned for regulation are so against this.
- The exact BTC and USD total of claims approved and the exact BTC and USD total of funds delivered.

In case anyone's not on the right page, the fact that they themself have approved claims and not paid them makes this very much a scam. Bulanula got a scammer tag over 22.5 BTC (about $100 at the time), and these guys are being negligent with over a million dollars.

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July 13, 2012, 06:00:44 PM
 #20

As it stands right now at most some people might deserve a NEGLIGENT tag but labeling them scammers, I don't see how you can rationally support that.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

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