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Question: Are you vaccinated?
Yes, i'm 100% uptodate
Yes, but i dont go for the flue shoot every year
No

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Author Topic: Are you vaccinated?  (Read 2885 times)
myrkul
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July 14, 2012, 10:56:55 AM
 #41

Honestly, it's not the vaccine itself I have an issue with. It's the business practices.

Gardasil is probably the best example of this. It's a vaccine for HPV, right? OK, that's great. What is HPV, anyway? It's an STD. But what do they market it as? A vaccine not for an STD, but for cervical cancer! And HPV doesn't cause every case of cervical cancer. All they've proven is that it's been present in 70% of cases where cervical cancer developed.

What was that you said? correlation != causation, I think it was.

And now, now... they want to give it to boys, too! I'm not against vaccines in general. They're a great idea. Overall, I think the rewards outweigh the risks. But a vaccine for a virus which might cause cancer, and is easily preventable by other means? I gotta call bullshit on this one. Other blatant money grabs include proposed vaccines for smoking, of all things! I mean, come on.

Now, let's compare Gardasil to the flu shot. There are almost always shortages of flu shots, so they limit it to "high risk groups", such as hospital workers, and the elderly. No shortage of Gardasil, though. Nope, never any shortages there. They want to have it mandatory, even! (WTF?) I smell greed, greed blown beyond all rational proportions.

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July 14, 2012, 11:46:59 AM
 #42

Honestly, it's not the vaccine itself I have an issue with. It's the business practices.

Gardasil is probably the best example of this. It's a vaccine for HPV, right? OK, that's great. What is HPV, anyway? It's an STD. But what do they market it as? A vaccine not for an STD, but for cervical cancer!
Not seeing that sort of marketing in my country. They're vary careful about what they say it prevents.
Quote

What was that you said? correlation != causation, I think it was.
 And HPV doesn't cause every case of cervical cancer. All they've proven is that it's been present in 70% of cases where cervical cancer developed.

What was that you said? correlation != causation, I think it was.

Now you're pulling stats out of your bum. It's proven effective against all types of cancer caused by the human papillomavirus, not just cervical cancer, btw.
Quote

And now, now... they want to give it to boys, too!
So boys don't get HPV induced cancer? Oh. Huh. Well then. Even if males couldn't get HPV induced cancer, which they can, the importance of herd immunity is such that the greatest possible coverage is necessary.
Quote

I'm not against vaccines in general. They're a great idea. Overall, I think the rewards outweigh the risks. But a vaccine for a virus which might cause cancer, and is easily preventable by other means? I gotta call bullshit on this one. Other blatant money grabs include proposed vaccines for smoking, of all things! I mean, come on.

Now, let's compare Gardasil to the flu shot. There are almost always shortages of flu shots, so they limit it to "high risk groups", such as hospital workers, and the elderly. No shortage of Gardasil, though. Nope, never any shortages there. They want to have it mandatory, even! (WTF?) I smell greed, greed blown beyond all rational proportions.


What I understand from your posts is that though you seem rational in most respects, in this one regard you seem pretty biased. You only regard HPV as an inducer of cervical cancer, and feel that reducing causes of this horrible disease is unnecessary. From this I can guess that either 1. women are not important to you or 2. You're christian and think that anyone engaging in extra marital sex is getting their just desserts.

If you're not either of these, then you've been misinformed by sensationalist media and  I apologise in advance.

FWIW cervical cancer is a horrible way to die and I'm in support of a vaccine that prevents it. I find it disgusting that, from what you say, people in your country actually have to pay for the vaccine, but that shouldn't colour your attitude toward the vaccine - direct your anger toward a government that can't provide an effective health care system for their citizens.

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July 14, 2012, 12:32:03 PM
 #43

So tell me what do you think about vaccination, do you trust them?

I'll just leave this here: UNICEF - How many lives do vaccinations save each year? (1996)

Answer: On the order of 10 million lives saved per year, mostly young children.



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July 14, 2012, 12:34:50 PM
 #44

Yes, vaccinated.  Flu shot every year too.
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July 14, 2012, 12:44:33 PM
 #45

Gates Foundation - Progress towards Immunization:

Quote
WHAT IS IMMUNIZATION?

Immunization is one of the most
important and cost-effective public
health interventions available for the
prevention of childhood illnesses
and death. [12]

Vaccines, which protect
against disease by inducing immunity,
are widely and routinely administered
through immunization programs in
every country of the world. Each year,
more than 100 million children are
vaccinated against measles, polio, and
other diseases. [13]

Immunization is a cornerstone of
public health programs and serves
as a platform for other interventions.
These programs have been sustained
for decades, even through war and
conflict. In one of the greatest successes
in public health history, smallpox
was eradicated by immunization
campaigns in 1979, and polio
eradication is now within reach.

Each year approximately 25 million
infants do not receive the necessary
immunizations, and at least 2.4 million
children die from vaccine-preventable
diseases—approximately 14 percent
of deaths in children under 5. [14]

Millions more survive, but are left
severely impaired. The long-term
effects of these childhood illnesses
limit the ability of those who survive
to become educated, to work, or to
care for themselves or others.

Every time a homeopath tells someone not to vaccinate their children, God kills a kitten baby.
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July 14, 2012, 02:27:50 PM
 #46

So tell me what do you think about vaccination, do you trust them?
Who is them?

With vaccionation it is as simple as math can be. If the risk is higher whilst you are not vaccinated, than do something about it. If not why worry?
The statistics are there, they are needed for approval, just read them.

The flu vaccination campaigns of the past years brought the topic back.
If you look a little bit deeper into what happend, you´d be amazed plus a little bit more careful with vaccinations.
I´ll just drop one small potion of disenchantment on flu vaccination.
Statistics around here say: The docs don´t take it!

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July 14, 2012, 02:52:00 PM
 #47

Everyone is vaccinated so I don't need them since my environment is already disease free.  Grin
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July 14, 2012, 02:53:29 PM
 #48

My son has had all his vaccinations up to date... But ME ..... I refuse to get the flu shot........ <--- I did once years ago... I was out of work for 10 days afterwards I was so sick..... Never again.. Have yet to have a sick day Tongue
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July 14, 2012, 03:00:39 PM
 #49

Of course yes i'm vaccinated, welcome in 2012, where thanks to vaccins people no more die to fail disease

I don't do the flu shot cause i don't need it, i can happily survive a flu without problems but i have all the important vaccines.
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July 14, 2012, 03:09:12 PM
 #50

You surviving the flu: good for you! Not so good for those to whom you pass it. Neonates (brand spanking new babies) might not be able to survive the flu, and they can't be vaccinated. They rely on you not to have the flu and pass it on.

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July 14, 2012, 04:19:26 PM
 #51

I dont' work near them, actually i'm almost never near a baby
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July 14, 2012, 05:11:21 PM
 #52

I prefer to get a "wild" sample of the sickness thats been "half defeated" inside the host.
Such a a seasonal cold, I'll call one of my buddies over to get me sick.
Helps to bolster the auto immune system.
Also i hate needles
Also i dont like pharmecudicals

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July 14, 2012, 05:20:05 PM
 #53

What I understand from your posts is that though you seem rational in most respects, in this one regard you seem pretty biased. You only regard HPV as an inducer of cervical cancer, and feel that reducing causes of this horrible disease is unnecessary. From this I can guess that either 1. women are not important to you or 2. You're christian and think that anyone engaging in extra marital sex is getting their just desserts.

If you're not either of these, then you've been misinformed by sensationalist media and  I apologise in advance.

FWIW cervical cancer is a horrible way to die and I'm in support of a vaccine that prevents it. I find it disgusting that, from what you say, people in your country actually have to pay for the vaccine, but that shouldn't colour your attitude toward the vaccine - direct your anger toward a government that can't provide an effective health care system for their citizens.

If HPV causes cancer, (and the stats I've seen only link it to cervical cancer - if you have others, I'd love to see them) then I agree that we should do something to prevent it. But that something need not be a vaccine. STDs are entirely preventable - not just through abstinence, though that's a 100% effective way - condoms work fine, too. I'm not even - as I said - against people getting vaccinated willingly, especially those in "high risk" careers, such as porn actresses and other sex workers. It's the forcing people to get vaccinated for an STD that boggles my mind.

If you've read my other posts, especially those over in the politics forum, then you know that I am absolutely against forcing anyone to do anything, even if it's "for their own good." I don't hate women, and I'm not some moralist that thinks God is striking down the sinful. I just think that making an STD vaccine mandatory to enter schooling is fucking ridiculous. That was the reason for the (WTF?) above... I mean, do they think the kids will be fucking in the halls?

Thankfully, no, the people do not directly pay the hundreds of dollars that the pharmaceutical company makes off each shot. Vaccines are covered by insurance, so few, if any, actually have to pay out of pocket for them. But no matter where, exactly, the money is coming from, it just sickens me to see a company directly profiting from a government regulation. Once Gardasil is out of patent, I'm betting that this hype will die down, and only people actually at increased risk of getting HPV will get the shot.

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July 14, 2012, 06:03:13 PM
 #54

I get the recommended stuff, minus the flu shot because it's never stopped me getting a flu when I did get it.

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July 14, 2012, 06:11:24 PM
 #55

I've had over 35 injections of various kinds because I travel a lot. I had to have them renewed too. Rabies was the worst - 3 shots of bright red liquid straight into the arm!

At one point I wanted to get as many extra as I could as I thought it was great.

How's about quit fighting over the issue and fix the problem with the preservation by altering the delivery or offering a premium option for those who wish to pay where we can take the shot soon after it is manufactured?

I can't track down specific problems to injections but I have experienced problems with using silver on the skin - it created a slight negative charge... which like Mercury fillings only presents a problem if it's persistent and in a place sensitive to it but you certainly won't read about this or get any help from a doctor; it took me years to figure it out!

Likewise, some vaccines use heavy metals for preservative some I'm confident that those metals, where ever they end up will be causing a problem inside me somewhere. I don't think the amounts are enough to worry about but then... I'd like to know how much is in a shot so I can compare to my real life experience elsewhere. Still, I can be proud I served society, ready to lay down my health for the greater good, "Viva!"
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July 14, 2012, 06:40:36 PM
 #56

If were going to bring personal info into it, back in the day when i was a youngen, i would get my yearly flu shot, and still get the flu. The year i decided to tell the doctor to screw off, i have yet to have a flu since then. (13 years and counting)

This.

For me, the rest of the vaccine debate isn't that important. Get it and protect yourself, don't and take the risks, *yawn.*

But the annual flu shot has got to be the biggest medical scam the U.S. has seen in recent decades.

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July 14, 2012, 09:29:27 PM
 #57

I think the HPV one might be a scam, I think the stats are 50% of people will have HPV in there lives.
If you ever have had unprotected sex you most likely have HPV.

"Up to 20 million Americans are currently infected with sexually transmitted HPV, and it is estimated that 75 percent of reproductive age women and men have been infected with genital HPV at some point in their lives"
From PP

"Although there is currently no "cure" for genital HPV infection, most cases are transient and clear themselves without medical intervention" -CDC

So its a virus that almost anyone can get and in most cases goes away with medical intervention?

The chances of me not having HPV in my life is .0000000000001% lol

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July 14, 2012, 09:33:16 PM
 #58

I'm Currently up to date on my vaccinations

And I only Put in me what is required by Law Or my Employer as a condition of my employment.

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July 14, 2012, 11:04:50 PM
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So its a virus that almost anyone can get and in most cases goes away with medical intervention?

There are very many strains of HPV, only some of which are linked with cancer.

Quote
Of the 150-200 types of HPV known,  15 are classified as high-risk types (16, 18, 31, 33, 35, 39, 45, 51, 52, 56, 58, 59, 68, 73, and 82), 3 as probable high-risk (26, 53, and 66), and 12 as low-risk (6, 11, 40, 42, 43, 44, 54, 61, 70, 72, 81, and CP6108). Types 16 and 18 are generally acknowledged to cause about 70% of cervical cancer cases. Together with type 31, they are the prime risk factors for cervical cancer.

The HPV vaccine immunizes against some of these strains. The lifetime risk of HPV is very high, the lifetime risk of getting cancer from HPV is very low, but real. If you die from cervical cancer, chances are it started with a preventable HPV infection. Perfect worldwide immunization would save some hundreds of thousand lives per year.

Quote
Human papillomavirus (HPV) infection appears to be a necessary factor in the development of almost all cases (90+%) of cervical cancer. HPV vaccines are effective against the two strains of this large family of viruses that currently cause approximately 70% of cases of cervical cancer have been licensed in the U.S, Canada, Australia, and the EU.

The vaccine is not perfect. Medicine does not run on magic.

Quote
Worldwide, cervical cancer is second most common and the fifth deadliest cancer in women. It affects about 16 per 100,000 women per year and kills about 9 per 100,000 per year. Approximately 80% of cervical cancers occur in developing countries. Worldwide, in 2008, it was estimated that there were 473,000 cases of cervical cancer, and 253,500 deaths per year.[59]

It should be abundantly clear that it's empathetically not a scam.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_cancer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV
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July 15, 2012, 05:56:25 AM
 #60

Quote
Worldwide, cervical cancer is second most common and the fifth deadliest cancer in women. It affects about 16 per 100,000 women per year and kills about 9 per 100,000 per year. Approximately 80% of cervical cancers occur in developing countries. Worldwide, in 2008, it was estimated that there were 473,000 cases of cervical cancer, and 253,500 deaths per year.[59]

It should be abundantly clear that it's empathetically not a scam.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_cancer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV


Just to be clear, which is it that you're certain is not a scam: that the vaccine is legitimate and works, that the push for mandatory immunization of schoolchildren with it is legitimate, or both?

Bitcoin is the ultimate freedom test. It tells you who is giving lip service and who genuinely believes in it.
...
...
In the future, books that summarize the history of money will have a line that says, “and then came bitcoin.” It is the economic singularity. And we are living in it now. - Ryan Dickherber
...
...
ATTENTION BFL MINING NEWBS: Just got your Jalapenos in? Wondering how to get the most value for the least hassle? Give BitMinter a try! It's a smaller pool with a fair & low-fee payment method, lots of statistical feedback, and it's easier than EasyMiner! (Yes, we want your hashing power, but seriously, it IS the easiest pool to use! Sign up in seconds to try it!)
...
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The idea that deflation causes hoarding (to any problematic degree) is a lie used to justify theft of value from your savings.
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