BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!)

[CoinCidental]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense. 

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

[hongw]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense. 

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

[neurotypical]

Most of the time they just drop random raids to scare people away from using the service, in this case LocalBitcoins. They'll keep doing random ass raids for no reason, just to scare people lol.

[RockMinerOops]

They already are paying the DA and the DA's office regardless, so thats not really an expense.  Also, judge already being paid.  Jury already gets their meager 20.00 a day or whatnot.

[flipstyle]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis?  

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense.  

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

Money is not an issue.  They already garnered more than enough from the seized coins from the SilkRoad debacle, and I don't even think they've auctioned off all of them, either.   The DA's and judges are already under salary lol what are you even talking about?  They are government workers.

There have been much bigger heists/busts than this prosecuted before.  If you think anything phazes or scares the U.S. government, then you are sadly mistaken.

[hongw]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis?  

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense.  

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

Money is not an issue.  They already garnered more than enough from the seized coins from the SilkRoad debacle, and I don't even think they've auctioned off all of them, either.   The DA's and judges are already under salary lol what are you even talking about?  They are government workers.

There have been much bigger heists/busts than this prosecuted before.  If you think anything phazes or scares the U.S. government, then you are sadly mistaken.

I am saying that prosecuting Bitcoin traders is not going to be as profitable as it is being made out to be. The DA and judges are on salary, however if there are enough cases then more will need to be hired, and if there are few enough cases some will be laid off. Just because they are on salary does not mean that they are a permanent fixed expense.

[CoinCidental]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis?  

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense.  

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

Money is not an issue.  They already garnered more than enough from the seized coins from the SilkRoad debacle, and I don't even think they've auctioned off all of them, either.   The DA's and judges are already under salary lol what are you even talking about?  They are government workers.

There have been much bigger heists/busts than this prosecuted before.  If you think anything phazes or scares the U.S. government, then you are sadly mistaken.

I am saying that prosecuting Bitcoin traders is not going to be as profitable as it is being made out to be. The DA and judges are on salary, however if there are enough cases then more will need to be hired, and if there are few enough cases some will be laid off. Just because they are on salary does not mean that they are a permanent fixed expense.

it doesnt take long when the defendants are scared shitless of going to jail for a long time so they agree to forefeit all their assets and just plead guilty without a trial
thats what everyone has done so far ( ulbright is the exception )

[CoinCidental]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense. 

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

who do you think pays the wages of the police and courts ? they are not working solely  from the bitcoins they can seize
they get their salary from the taxpayer anyway
feds getting millions of btc to auction off is just a christmas bonus  lol

[hongw]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis?  

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense.  

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

Money is not an issue.  They already garnered more than enough from the seized coins from the SilkRoad debacle, and I don't even think they've auctioned off all of them, either.   The DA's and judges are already under salary lol what are you even talking about?  They are government workers.

There have been much bigger heists/busts than this prosecuted before.  If you think anything phazes or scares the U.S. government, then you are sadly mistaken.

I am saying that prosecuting Bitcoin traders is not going to be as profitable as it is being made out to be. The DA and judges are on salary, however if there are enough cases then more will need to be hired, and if there are few enough cases some will be laid off. Just because they are on salary does not mean that they are a permanent fixed expense.

it doesnt take long when the defendants are scared shitless of going to jail for a long time so they agree to forefeit all their assets and just plead guilty without a trial
thats what everyone has done so far ( ulbright is the exception )

Well Ross is almost not going to plead guilty because any deal would likely result in him forfeiting the dozens of millions of dollars worth of bitcoin and a very lengthy jail sentence. He is essentially forced to go all in.

Charlie's case probably cost the government a good amount of money, although probably less then the million they got from him.

The guy behind the burtw.com website appears to be fighting the charges.

It is unknown that the "real" BurtW is doing.

I do agree that a lot of people end up pleaing out and the justice system really is broken in that prosecutors can charge people with charge with very harsh sentences and then offer a plea deal that seems like a slap on the wrist compared to what they were facing  

[hongw]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense. 

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

who do you think pays the wages of the police and courts ? they are not working solely  from the bitcoins they can seize
they get their salary from the taxpayer anyway
feds getting millions of btc to auction off is just a christmas bonus  lol

The money collected from fines and civil forfeiture goes from the general fund that pays for the government. The general fund is also paying for these expenses. However if something is not going to be cost effective then the government is not going to pursue it. For example they are not going to prosecute a speeding ticket if it will cost them thousands of dollars, doing so would just not make any sense.

[sed]

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".

A link to his profile here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14808

We need to help him.

BurtW was also really passionate about not linking bitcoins to the things previous owners might have spent them on, "unqualiifed fungibility" and no reuse of addresses, etc.

[CoinCidental]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense. 

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

who do you think pays the wages of the police and courts ? they are not working solely  from the bitcoins they can seize
they get their salary from the taxpayer anyway
feds getting millions of btc to auction off is just a christmas bonus  lol

The money collected from fines and civil forfeiture goes from the general fund that pays for the government. The general fund is also paying for these expenses. However if something is not going to be cost effective then the government is not going to pursue it. For example they are not going to prosecute a speeding ticket if it will cost them thousands of dollars, doing so would just not make any sense.

it all depends on the situation .......
ive seen them waste shitloads of money before on charges where they would never make a profit on

someone speeding  on a car or motorcycle who  fails to pull over will result in a police chase involving maybe a dozen cars on the ground and even  police helicopters
theres no way theyre going to recover whatever all that cost from a  drunk driver or whatever ............

[hongw]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense. 

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

who do you think pays the wages of the police and courts ? they are not working solely  from the bitcoins they can seize
they get their salary from the taxpayer anyway
feds getting millions of btc to auction off is just a christmas bonus  lol

The money collected from fines and civil forfeiture goes from the general fund that pays for the government. The general fund is also paying for these expenses. However if something is not going to be cost effective then the government is not going to pursue it. For example they are not going to prosecute a speeding ticket if it will cost them thousands of dollars, doing so would just not make any sense.

it all depends on the situation .......
ive seen them waste shitloads of money before on charges where they would never make a profit on

someone speeding  on a car or motorcycle who  fails to pull over will result in a police chase involving maybe a dozen cars on the ground and even  police helicopters
theres no way theyre going to recover whatever all that cost from a  drunk driver or whatever ............

I think it really depends on the crime. If it is something like murder or drunk driving or kidnapping then they are going to be more willing to spend a lot of money to catch them and convict them. However for more miner offenses where there is really no victim they will be more conservative.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis? 

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense. 

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Yeah easily..they would be making really good profit out of it..without a doubt.!

Going to bust Charlie schrem made them another million usd
The silkroad  btc seller guy got $950,000 fine as well as some jail iirc

That's an easy 2 million from two quick arrests, I assume burtw will be another easy million $ for them

Let's not even talk about ross ulbright and his hundreds of millions of dollars worth..... Although they probably wasted more money looking for him

You need to take into consideration the money it will cost to prosecute them as well as the cost of a trial. I don't know if it would cost a million dollars or not, however they would need to pay for the DA, the staff in the DA's office, they need to give all the evidence against them to the defendant (this alone probably cost close to a million dollars in Ross's case), pay for court security, for the judge, for the jury (potentially for hotels/meals for the jury if they are sequestered ). The list goes on.

who do you think pays the wages of the police and courts ? they are not working solely  from the bitcoins they can seize
they get their salary from the taxpayer anyway
feds getting millions of btc to auction off is just a christmas bonus  lol

The money collected from fines and civil forfeiture goes from the general fund that pays for the government. The general fund is also paying for these expenses. However if something is not going to be cost effective then the government is not going to pursue it. For example they are not going to prosecute a speeding ticket if it will cost them thousands of dollars, doing so would just not make any sense.

it all depends on the situation .......
ive seen them waste shitloads of money before on charges where they would never make a profit on

someone speeding  on a car or motorcycle who  fails to pull over will result in a police chase involving maybe a dozen cars on the ground and even  police helicopters
theres no way theyre going to recover whatever all that cost from a  drunk driver or whatever ............

I think it really depends on the crime. If it is something like murder or drunk driving or kidnapping then they are going to be more willing to spend a lot of money to catch them and convict them. However for more miner offenses where there is really no victim they will be more conservative.

The thing with all of this is there doesn't even need to be an actual crime. They are just going for the headlines "this guy got raided during a localbitcoins exchange" so you get scared and stop using the service. Same good ol technique.

[Kprawn]

OMG! BurtW was a great guy and very active here. I believe he mostly did cash transactions, I hope this isn't another one of those localbitcoins "stings".

A link to his profile here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=14808

We need to help him.

BurtW was also really passionate about not linking bitcoins to the things previous owners might have spent them on, "unqualiifed fungibility" and no reuse of addresses, etc.

Agreed - It would be easy for people to trace all transactions to it's original address, if these services did not exist. You could give companies mining for marketting information a treasure trove full of information, if you only used one address or all the information a stalker needed to follow your daily activity. {Where you buy your coffee, what you buy online, where you buy it etc etc.} We need some degree of privacy.

Get your income, mix it, spend it, without worry. 

[Gleb Gamow]

I'm a bit perplexed.

I thought bitcoin ownership and conversion is perfectly legal in the U.S.  Or is it a state-by-state basis?  

Or perhaps he was just doing this unreported and did not pay a single penny of tax on it? If so, then I have no sympathy for him, that's clearly breaking the law.

Ofcourse thats not a whole story. Seriously think hes only buying and selling for his own investment? Thats what he will use for defense. FEDs might have more than that.

That's what I'm thinking.  Otherwise, FEDs would be having a field day prosecuting thousands of sellers on localbitcoins over the past 2 years.  There's got to be more on this story regarding some deeper illicit activities, and most likely tax evasion on a grand scale  (which, does not matter whether you're selling bitcoins or shit on ebay...you'll eventually get hit)

It is perfectly possible that he traded coins connected to illicit activities, without knowing. Normally people don't talk about that, unless they are really really stupid, or sting agents.

And naturally, the Feds will go after the source.

Another possibility is that they are going for the big fish first, trying to scare the "thousands of sellers on localbitcoins" because it is a bit too expensive even for big government, to send 35 highly paid henchmen after each of them.

This is what the German Bafin is doing, they scare individuals to stop them selling Bitcoins (which is possibly the reason why LBC banned Germany). It is not illegal in Germany to trade BTC without a license on a non-business basis, but the legal threats stop most people because they don't want the hassle and expense.  

It's not really expensive since there is a 1/4 million dollar fine and all his bit coins and money and property will be seized as well as all computer equipment

I think that's more than enough to cover the price of sending some goons to his house for an hour or two so a nice profit to be made busting anyone else who is doing anything "illegal"  in btc

Perhaps, the LEOs think it's more profitable to seize control of one person's assets that are known to have great value than a dozen broke dicks (no offense, for illustration only) selling small amounts of BTC in a park on a regular basis: The former may have a quarter to a full million in assets, where the latter combined may only have tens of grands.

EDIT: Looks like my sentiment was already echoed, and even more eloquently.

[Wendigo]

Anyone knows if he has paid the bail or is still jailed?

[matt4054]

Anyone knows if he has paid the bail or is still jailed?

IDK about his source, but:

He's out on bail and surrendered his passport. The latest motion of any consequence:
A 10-Day Jury Trial set for 5/4/2015 08:00 AM in Courtroom A 801 before Judge William J. Martinez

[Gleb Gamow]

It's safely assumed that the following [update] is directed to the contents of this tread.

http://www.burtw.com/

Please stop defaming my husband.

My husband has no involvement in drugs at all.  

Please stop confusing BurtW with Bruce Wagner.  They are not the same person.

My daughter and our friends and families wanted to help, so we put up this little fundraising website for friends and families last October.

Our personal and business losses and the costs and fees for legal representation are astronomical.

We can use all the help we can get.  

If you are sincere and well-meaning, you may contact me at jean@jmwagner.com

Please heed Jean's plead.

[Wendigo]

Is this site with the fundraising legit? Seems pretty sketchy to me.