BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!)

[matt4054]

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

[Bobsurplus]

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence.  I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

[matt4054]

Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

I do, and yes who knows, maybe he did. Now there's a huge gap between what you do in private and what you do publicly, especially when you are the admin of the most watched Bitcoin board of the internets, with several posts already featured in various three-letter agencies reports.

To get back on topic, I agree that BurtW was a very active and appreciated member on this board and this feels more troubling to me than the whole SR downfall, because there's much more room for doubt about the exact meaning of 'derived from a criminal offense' here. Could be the PPT or anything really.

[erikalui]

I guess he was arrested for money laundering and the same happened to the owner of Liberty Reserve because of which I lost my $15. It was a small amount but still I had not done anything wrong and I complained as well but nothing happened as the owner was a cheat himself. I don't know why people can't earn money in a legal way 

[farfiman]

I guess he was arrested for money laundering and the same happened to the owner of Liberty Reserve because of which I lost my $15. It was a small amount but still I had not done anything wrong and I complained as well but nothing happened as the owner was a cheat himself. I don't know why people can't earn money in a legal way 

Evidence?

[Honeybooboo]

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence.  I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

Mark Karpales helped put bitcoin on the map too, so should theymos donate to help him out too? Ross/DPR got himself into this mess and has more than enough funds to help himself but it's not money he needs right now.

[NewLiberty]

Likely a sting operation, in which he agreed to proceed with BTC transaction knowing the funds will be used for something illegal.

These MSB stings are weird.

It could be the case that no crime is ever committed by the accused beyond the disregard for the possibility of someone else doing something in a place where it is considered wrong...

I imagine a case where a sting is done by picking names off a LocalBitcoin list in some LEO's home turf.  They pick a fellow that has done 5 or 10 trades and has some ratings, and they do a deal and LEO mentions they are buying acid with it.  
The bitcoin seller assumes they are going to order some legal low-pH chemical online, the LEO arrests the seller for money laundering claiming that he told the seller he was buying drugs.

The accusations will be horrific, because the LEO gets to seize all sorts of property, some of which go straight to their expense account.  Judge and Jury give deference to LEO because that is the standard practice.  People reading the media releases will form judgements based on the accusations, far ahead of any trial.  Defendant will get pressured to plead guilty to a slightly lessor charge.  Jail and impoverishment by legalized theft follow.  Having bought or sold a few bitcoin with strangers for very small money (way under any legal limits) I can see how it could happen to just about anyone.

"Let's be careful out there."

[Bagatell]

Jail and impoverishment by legalized theft follow.  Having bought or sold a few bitcoin with strangers for very small money (way under any legal limits) I can see how it could happen to just about anyone.

"Let's be careful out there."

It seems to be just a USA thing at the moment.

[dewdeded]

I lost $800 on Liberty Reserve and still the LR owners & operators are heros to me.
Fuck USA!

[SirChiko]

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence.  I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

I don't think he did this, even when alot of us did donate to this case, the court didn't hear the witnesses on ross's side...

[Blazr]

Just curious... did you do anything to help Ross?? I mean Besides turning over the IP info on him to the feds!

Maybe altoid shouldn't have been using his real name gmail address in the first place?

Besides, what do you think were the alternatives for theymos after being subpoenaed?

I never said what he did was wrong and I understand how the law works and what woulda happened if Theymos had withheld evidence.  I'm just wondering if he did anything to help "altoid".
Maybe he donated to his legal defense or started a thread to help raise money for the young guy who helped put bitcoin on the map.

You feel me?

Nothing theymos gave was even mentioned in court.

They used screenshots of the bitcointalk posts that were taken by LE a few weeks before they arrested Ross.

They were hoping that theymos had a backup of the deleted post, he didn't, so they pretty much wasted their time with the subpoena.

[erikalui]

I guess he was arrested for money laundering and the same happened to the owner of Liberty Reserve because of which I lost my $15. It was a small amount but still I had not done anything wrong and I complained as well but nothing happened as the owner was a cheat himself. I don't know why people can't earn money in a legal way 

Evidence?

So you mean that he was arrested without any evidence? Liberty Reserve was itself used by many for gambling purposes and there was no way to verify the account and hence it was an illegal website. If I had known it earlier, I would never use it but my ba dthat I lost my money which I had earned and not used for gambling.

[thejaytiesto]

I readed in reddit the other day a guy got arrested and his trezzor wallet stolen because cops thought it was a voice recorder. Anything can happen these days lol.

[smoothie]

To me it appears to be pretty simple for both BurtW and Charlie Shrem cases since they are so similar:

If a user/buyer of Bitcoin tells you they plan to do something illegal with the bitcoins you sell them, then just do not sell to them.

It is just like if you sell a guy a gun knowing he said he will commit murder. Of course buying illegal things and killing people are two worlds apart the principle is simple.

[moriartybitcoin]

To me it appears to be pretty simple for both BurtW and Charlie Shrem cases since they are so similar:

If a user/buyer of Bitcoin tells you they plan to do something illegal with the bitcoins you sell them, then just do not sell to them.

It is just like if you sell a guy a gun knowing he said he will commit murder. Of course buying illegal things and killing people are two worlds apart the principle is simple.

Yeah, that is probably good advice. And just don't ASK why someone is buying or selling btc.  It's none of your business.  If the guy says something about illegal activity without being asked, then you're probably getting set up by feds .. back out of the deal FAST is my advice.

[dewdeded]

This advice is good but probably won't help much.
Pretty likely, this fed sting guys will talk about "illegal activity without being asked", after the deal is done and money & coins are already exchanged.
So you/the exchanger is already fucked, when these "evidences" are created.

For the court, the officiial timeline will obvious be changed later then.

[odolvlobo]

To me it appears to be pretty simple for both BurtW and Charlie Shrem cases since they are so similar:

If a user/buyer of Bitcoin tells you they plan to do something illegal with the bitcoins you sell them, then just do not sell to them.

You do not know what Burt's circumstances were. You do not know that they were the same.

[NewLiberty]

This advice is good but probably won't help much.
Pretty likely, this fed sting guys will talk about "illegal activity without being asked", after the deal is done and money & coins are already exchanged.
So you/the exchanger is already fucked, when these "evidences" are created.

For the court, the officiial timeline will obvious be changed later then.

At least the block chain will have a time stamp.  
It may be slightly better evidence than what an "official" may provide.
Take home message:  Don't do bad things with Bitcoin.  It leaves a record.

[fatguyyyyy]

Since ross ulbricht was convicted of allowing people to use his service for illegal deals, I wonder if LocalBitcoins itself could be held respoinsible for the actions of its users like BurtW? I wouldn't be surprised to see the owner of LocalBitcoins hauled in front of a judge, to be honest, saying he facilitates money launder

[leopard2]

This advice is good but probably won't help much.
Pretty likely, this fed sting guys will talk about "illegal activity without being asked", after the deal is done and money & coins are already exchanged.
So you/the exchanger is already fucked, when these "evidences" are created.

For the court, the officiial timeline will obvious be changed later then.

If you believe the feds break the law outright, they could just as well make things up instead of changing timelines.

I wonder if it would help to use a recording device; of course asking the buyer/seller if that is OK first; then record everything that is said. No video, just audio, and archive it?

An honest buyer could just keep his mouth shut as much as possible and a dishonest sting buyer would not agree to the recording.