BurtW arrested (update: charges dropped!)

[CoinCidental]

Yeah, $30K around the house sounds like a lot.

What kind of miraculous force protected him from robbery for all those years?

seeing as he hasnt ever been robbed in all those years i assume whatever safety precautions he used was enough

(just obviously not enough to prevent hijacking from 35 govt pirates with search warrants who can stay as long as they want without fear of anything )

[Soros Shorts]

It not just "$30K around the house". He was widely known for doing cash deals nearly daily for a long time. Keeping cash at home in a safe or under the proverbial mattress, when nobody knows about it is safe and sane. It is a completely different story when everyone and his dog knows that he was a cash operator.

What kind of miraculous force protected him from robbery for all those years?

How would other people know if he kept his cash at home or how much there was? Sometimes it is just enough to be discrete about it. Should all big cash dealers advertise that they don't take any of that cash back home with everyone they dealt with? Obviously just being a large cash dealer does not automatically target someone for robbery in most areas.

Edit: In any case, even if he kept no cash at home I think that the authorities would still have raided is house.

[bitcoin_bagholder]

It not just "$30K around the house". He was widely known for doing cash deals nearly daily for a long time. Keeping cash at home in a safe or under the proverbial mattress, when nobody knows about it is safe and sane. It is a completely different story when everyone and his dog knows that he was a cash operator.

What kind of miraculous force protected him from robbery for all those years?

How would other people know if he kept his cash at home or how much there was? Sometimes it is just enough to be discrete about it. Should all big cash dealers advertise that they don't take any of that cash back home with everyone they dealt with? Obviously just being a large cash dealer does not automatically target someone for robbery in most areas.

Edit: In any case, even if he kept no cash at home I think that the authorities would still have raided is house.

If a business is known to involve large cash transactions, there's a reasonable expectation that the cash is going somewhere other than being directly deposited into a bank.

[kevinlarr]

Not saying this is "THE" reason, personally I have no idea of anything about Burt or his family, BUT I used to know a guy who was a very smart, mathematically inclined, statistically capable dude, who worked part time as a semi-professional gambler, counting cards at blackjack in casinos.

Card counting is not illegal even though it's usually against casino policy (they can ask you to leave, legally, if they think you're doing it but you can't be arrested for it as long as no actual "cheating" is going on as well).

Playing high-skill blackjack at his high roller level required him to carry a lot of cash to the casinos, so he always had a ton of cash on hand, hidden at home etc.  He made a nice extra income from it and his blackjack work/play actually funded his family's yearly vacations to lots of places around the country and even around the world (anywhere there was a casino nearby, LOL).

But, anyway my POINT is that NONE of any of this is ILLEGAL.

It's nobody's business WHATEVER the Wagner family's reason was for keeping their money at home, in cash.

All this speculation about "what" and "why" he had some cash, at home, is all bullshit.

Suggest we leave it alone and get back to more important topics at hand, in this thread... can we?

KEVLARR

[QuestionAuthority]

You're all going off on a tangent over holding large amounts of cash when that's not even the most interesting part. Ever play the game Clue? Colonel Mustard in the bedroom with a knife. We have postal police, DEA and DHS. If I was playing Clue that equals, BurtW using the mail (Postal Police) to send or receive drugs (DEA) internationally (DHS) using Bitcoin for payment.

[kevinlarr]

If I was playing Clue that equals, BurtW using the mail (Postal Police) to send or receive drugs (DEA) internationally (DHS) using Bitcoin for payment.

Yeah sure but IF that's the case WHY then does the indictment ONLY include the stupid minimal money transmission license issue?

That's like the cops saying, "Hey, we know this guy over here killed somebody, so let's file a charge against him for the terrible crime of failure to register his gun with the State..."

KEVLARR

[jbreher]

We have postal police, DEA and DHS. If I was playing Clue that equals, BurtW using the mail (Postal Police) to send or receive drugs (DEA) internationally (DHS) using Bitcoin for payment.

While your approach seems logical on its face, it fails to explain the U S Marshals service and other agencies. While it is currently unverified, Jean's testimony indicates that no drugs were found, so there vaporizes the DEA nexus.

An alternate possibility is that many agencies simply wanted a cut of the loot and the glory.

[QuestionAuthority]

If I was playing Clue that equals, BurtW using the mail (Postal Police) to send or receive drugs (DEA) internationally (DHS) using Bitcoin for payment.

Yeah sure but IF that's the case WHY then does the indictment ONLY include the stupid minimal money transmission license issue?

That's like the cops saying, "Hey, we know this guy over here killed somebody, so let's file a charge against him for the terrible crime of failure to register his gun with the State..."

KEVLARR

See that's why you need to see a copy of the warrant. That would tell us what they were looking for. Drugs? Maybe they didn't find what they were looking for because Burt is that good. They then indict for whatever they can.

[QuestionAuthority]

We have postal police, DEA and DHS. If I was playing Clue that equals, BurtW using the mail (Postal Police) to send or receive drugs (DEA) internationally (DHS) using Bitcoin for payment.

While your approach seems logical on its face, it fails to explain the U S Marshals service and other agencies. While it is currently unverified, Jean's testimony indicates that no drugs were found, so there vaporizes the DEA nexus.

An alternate possibility is that many agencies simply wanted a cut of the loot and the glory.

There were only two other departments and they are always used as extra bodies and invited as a courtesy to local LEOs.

[sed]

Does anyone know the latest on this?  If there's going to be a trial or a plea-bargain or whatever?  I would have expected that Burt W would have been out on bail by now even if he was arrested.  I mean, why the radio silence?

[frankenmint]

Does anyone know the latest on this?  If there's going to be a trial or a plea-bargain or whatever?  I would have expected that Burt W would have been out on bail by now even if he was arrested.  I mean, why the radio silence?

He's out and was released a few days after initial detainment as per mentioned on the FBOP website.  He cannot discuss matters about it, just like how Mark Karpeles is not allowed to disclose full details and we're not allowed to know full details regarding Karpeles link to DPR and SR.

I'm siding with Kevin on this one in that Burt was likely caught in an entrapment scheme by the government.  Just because I keep Cash on hand to take advantage of bitcoin speculations doesn't give uncle sam the right to 'civil forfeiture' my stuff  

I'm pretty sure the law is getting hung up on the fact that he transacted more than 10K at one time AND it was with a federal agent AND he had more liquid (cash reserve) at home to procure more BTC.  It's really screwed up, I've never heard of a goldbug or silverbug who got arrested for buying and selling up a bunch o gold. 

Seems like Gov't would have threw that out there on his arraignment charges if drugs HAD been involved.  Its only unlicensed money transmission. 

[jbreher]

There were only two other departments and they are always used as extra bodies and invited as a courtesy to local LEOs.

Really? Always? From whence does this assertion stem?

And why not the FDA? Forestry? SEC? etc? They all have police powers too, don't they?

[QuestionAuthority]

There were only two other departments and they are always used as extra bodies and invited as a courtesy to local LEOs.

Really? Always? From whence does this assertion stem?

And why not the FDA? Forestry? SEC? etc? They all have police powers too, don't they?

I shouldn't admit this especially here. I was an MP in the military. When I got out I got my post certification and worked as a LEO for a while. County sheriffs are invited to all major busts because you don't want to step on toes and sometimes you need local booking and lockup facilities. The Marshal service is everybody's bitch to use if you need them. lol

[rikkie]

Is Burt not responding in this thread because he's in jail without bail? Charlie was responding to people here with an ankle bracelet on under house arrest.

He's not able to respond.

Wait, according to what is generally accepted as of the end of this thread, and according to his wife's website Burt was released two days after his arrest after being held in solitary confinement.

Did theymos receive some kind of USA patroit act subpoena/"request" to restrict access to the BurtW account?

[CoinCidental]

Is Burt not responding in this thread because he's in jail without bail? Charlie was responding to people here with an ankle bracelet on under house arrest.

He's not able to respond.

Wait, according to what is generally accepted as of the end of this thread, and according to his wife's website Burt was released two days after his arrest after being held in solitary confinement.

Did theymos receive some kind of USA patroit act subpoena/"request" to restrict access to the BurtW account?

Burt was on the site very recently, this particular thread might be problematic for direct communications. 

when you get arrested the first thing a lawyer usually says is dont talk about the case ,it could make defending the charges more difficult later in court if burt clarified any details about the case here so hes probbaly better off saying nothing until he gets the verdict

[rikkie]

Is Burt not responding in this thread because he's in jail without bail? Charlie was responding to people here with an ankle bracelet on under house arrest.

He's not able to respond.

Wait, according to what is generally accepted as of the end of this thread, and according to his wife's website Burt was released two days after his arrest after being held in solitary confinement.

Did theymos receive some kind of USA patroit act subpoena/"request" to restrict access to the BurtW account?

Burt was on the site very recently, this particular thread might be problematic for direct communications. 

when you get arrested the first thing a lawyer usually says is dont talk about the case ,it could make defending the charges more difficult later in court if burt clarified any details about the case here so hes probbaly better off saying nothing until he gets the verdict

Did Charlie speak about the case at all prior to pleading guilty? I know that he spoke publicly after pleading guilty but prior to being sentenced.

[sed]

Is Burt not responding in this thread because he's in jail without bail? Charlie was responding to people here with an ankle bracelet on under house arrest.

He's not able to respond.

Wait, according to what is generally accepted as of the end of this thread, and according to his wife's website Burt was released two days after his arrest after being held in solitary confinement.

Did theymos receive some kind of USA patroit act subpoena/"request" to restrict access to the BurtW account?

Burt was on the site very recently, this particular thread might be problematic for direct communications. 

when you get arrested the first thing a lawyer usually says is dont talk about the case ,it could make defending the charges more difficult later in court if burt clarified any details about the case here so hes probbaly better off saying nothing until he gets the verdict

I guess that's a very good point we can't really expect him to pop into the bitcoin forum and tell us how things are going whilst this is in motion and his freedom is hanging in the balance.  Nevertheless, I hope that he's able to update us about this stuff eventually (as a free man).

[Window2Wall]

Here is a crazy thought. Maybe BurtW is behind bitmixer.io (or at least the government thinks he is behind it). I think running a bitcoin mixing service (some may call this a laundering service) could possibly fit the description of the allegation in the indictment.

BurtW did more or less publicly endorse bitmixer in their announcement thread and said that he had used them for 'a large amount' of bitcoin when they were only a few months old. He even said that he was considering to invest in them, and their minimum investment is 100 BTC.

BurtW was arrested on October 14, 2014, and bitmixer's forum auction bid was rejected by theymos without explination on December 7, 2014 (only 3 weeks later). This would fit a timeline of theymos getting some kind of subpoena asking for information about both the bitmixer.io account and the BurtW account, and if bitmixer.io was compromised as part of the arrest, it would fit the rough timeline that it would take for the government to take over the service and familiarize themselves with a good way to track all the coins that pass through it.

What does not match is the dates on the indictment (it says from April 2013, and bitmixer created a bitcointalk thread in January 2014), although it is possible that government thinks he was behind bitmixer + some other mixing service or + something else.

All this of course is speculation

[RoadStress]

BurtW was arrested on October 14, 2014, and bitmixer's forum auction bid was rejected by theymos without explination on December 7, 2014 (only 3 weeks later). This would fit a timeline of theymos getting some kind of subpoena asking for information about both the bitmixer.io account and the BurtW account, and if bitmixer.io was compromised as part of the arrest, it would fit the rough timeline that it would take for the government to take over the service and familiarize themselves with a good way to track all the coins that pass through it.

Interesting. I wonder if theymos can give us an explanation of his rejection.

Hey theymos are mixers banned from advertising on this forum or were you under pressure to reject that particular ad?

[Window2Wall]

BurtW was arrested on October 14, 2014, and bitmixer's forum auction bid was rejected by theymos without explination on December 7, 2014 (only 3 weeks later). This would fit a timeline of theymos getting some kind of subpoena asking for information about both the bitmixer.io account and the BurtW account, and if bitmixer.io was compromised as part of the arrest, it would fit the rough timeline that it would take for the government to take over the service and familiarize themselves with a good way to track all the coins that pass through it.

Interesting. I wonder if theymos can give us an explanation of his rejection.

Hey theymos are mixers banned from advertising on this forum or were you under pressure to reject that particular ad?

I don't think theymos is going to give any explanation regarding the rejection. A thread was opened shortly after the bid was rejected asking about the rejection and he never responded in the thread.