[FOR ADMINS] An Open Letter to Bitcointalk.org Admins Regarding Ponzi Schemes

[Stratobitz]

Agreed; Ponzi's by their very nature leave the last man hanging - or last group of people. There is no incentive to keep it running whatsoever once payments have been placed into the site... The owner of the site can simply say sorry; you were last!

Ponzi's are not gambling by any definition I can find. They are a form of fraud. It's as simple as that.

Strato

A ponzi cant be run by moral people u little kid .... do you tie your shoes alone ?

[Stratobitz]

I think all ponzis should be banned. The 'Games and rounds' board is messed up with ponzis.

@OP : Are you trying to advertise your Twitter account? Isn't advertising in posts agains forum rule unless approved?

   ~~MZ~~

I don't believe that is the case. Your signature has an advertisement for Bitmixer.io

And secondly placing my twitter account as a contact method is not an advertisement - at least not for any type of commerce - I don't sell anything on my Twitter Account.

Strato

[10BTCaDay]

Ponzi schemes should be removed due to the fact that newbs will fall trap to them(Including myself) and will lost a lot of money.. I lost over $500 on cryptodouble

[Muhammed Zakir]

@OP : Are you trying to advertise your Twitter account? Isn't advertising in posts agains forum rule unless approved?

I don't believe that is the case. Your signature has an advertisement for Bitmixer.io

And secondly placing my twitter account as a contact method is not an advertisement - at least not for any type of commerce - I don't sell anything on my Twitter Account.

Strato

Sorry for going off-topic: Advertising in signature is allowed as per the rules but advertising in posts aren't allowed. You don't want to sell anything on your Twitter account to call this as "ADVERTISEMENT".

Ponzi schemes should be removed due to the fact that newbs will fall trap to them(Including myself) and will lost a lot of money.. I lost over $500 on cryptodouble

Every ponzis are traps. You should be careful when investing, remeber "Don't invest more than you can afford to lose". While forums *should* remove these type of threads but it isn't forum's job to protect *you* from investing.

   ~~MZ~~

[Stratobitz]

@OP : Are you trying to advertise your Twitter account? Isn't advertising in posts agains forum rule unless approved?

I don't believe that is the case. Your signature has an advertisement for Bitmixer.io

And secondly placing my twitter account as a contact method is not an advertisement - at least not for any type of commerce - I don't sell anything on my Twitter Account.

Strato

Sorry for going off-topic: Advertising in signature is allowed as per the rules but advertising in posts aren't allowed. You don't want to sell anything on your Twitter account to call this as "ADVERTISEMENT". You are posting "follow me" not "contact me". You are obviously trying to get followers.

Ponzi schemes should be removed due to the fact that newbs will fall trap to them(Including myself) and will lost a lot of money.. I lost over $500 on cryptodouble

Every ponzis are traps. You should be careful when investing, remeber "Don't invest more than you can afford to lose". While forums *should* remove these type of threads but it isn't forum's job to protect *you* from investing.

   ~~MZ~~

Yes you are correct. Your post is off topic and has nothing to do with the topic being discussed here.

Strato

[Stratobitz]

Just bumping this post as there is still a lot of discussion regarding this topic within threads.

This post was originally in the Gambling Thread.  However it was moved to Meta- which is fine, but when it was moved it literally died instantly.

Hope the bump is not considered inappropriate.

Best,
 
Strato

[Southpaw0]

I think all ponzis in the gambling section should be locked or deleted.

[baristor]

I actually think ponzis make the gambling section more exciting

[Muhammed Zakir]

I actually think ponzis make the gambling section more exciting

And dangerous!

  -MZ

[Stratobitz]

And they add too, and support the "scam" factor for Bitcoin.

Strato

[SaltySpitoon]

This is just my personal opinion, but if a site tells you that its a ponzi, who cares? If you decide to gamble in a ponzi, knowing that its a ponzi, that is on you. In ponzi schemes, there is always a loser. Isn't that also true of any gambling games? The house/someone always has an edge, you put your money in hoping to win more, or you lose it. I see Ponzis as a strategy based game of chance. Now if its a company feigning legitimacy, and its actually a ponzi, thats a different story. But if a new site comes out called LukEPawnZ and it says its a ponzi scheme, if you don't like it, avoid it. Ponzis are no more risky than sending strangers online an unreversable currency.

[Muhammed Zakir]

SaltySpitoon, you are right! But I an afraid we might get into problems like this.

   -MZ

[SaltySpitoon]

Technically isn't all online gambling illegal in the U.S/Russia/Others, so why not remove the gambling section all together?

Theres is a sliding scale of legal involvement in hosting content online. Bitcointalk has very minimal involvement in classified/service listings. It could probably get in trouble for accepting advertising payments from Ponzi sites, but if we aren't promoting the sites, and not collecting a fee on the listings, we have very different levels of legal involvements. (Think Ebay vs Craigslist) if you sell Crack on Ebay, Ebay gets in trouble, if you sell Crack on Craigslist, the authorities might subpoena information from Craigslist to go after the individuals, but Craigslist isn't on the hot seat. I dont recall if Ponzis have ever been advertised by the forum, but I believe there is a general disclaimer to check your jurisdiction before participating. Theymos is all over the legal stuff, and I in no way speak for him or the forums, this is just my interpretation on the matter.

[Muhammed Zakir]

Technically isn't all online gambling illegal in the U.S/Russia/Others, so why not remove the gambling section all together?

I couldn't disagree.

I dont recall if Ponzis have ever been advertised by the forum, but I believe there is a general disclaimer to check your jurisdiction before participating. Theymos is all over the legal stuff, and I in no way speak for him or the forums, this is just my interpretation on the matter.

I have quoted whole post, both links maybe helpful.

I don't believe the forum itself has been advertising Ponzi sites like Hashprofit.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=818048.msg9257332#msg9257332

We cannot hold the forum responsible for what some people post on it.
If we did then most forums on the internet would have to close or be heavily moderated/censored.

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=4101cfa8-8841-4fae-bd88-89e26407b47e

   -MZ

[Stratobitz]

Technically isn't all online gambling illegal in the U.S/Russia/Others, so why not remove the gambling section all together?

Theres is a sliding scale of legal involvement in hosting content online. Bitcointalk has very minimal involvement in classified/service listings. It could probably get in trouble for accepting advertising payments from Ponzi sites, but if we aren't promoting the sites, and not collecting a fee on the listings, we have very different levels of legal involvements. (Think Ebay vs Craigslist) if you sell Crack on Ebay, Ebay gets in trouble, if you sell Crack on Craigslist, the authorities might subpoena information from Craigslist to go after the individuals, but Craigslist isn't on the hot seat. I dont recall if Ponzis have ever been advertised by the forum, but I believe there is a general disclaimer to check your jurisdiction before participating. Theymos is all over the legal stuff, and I in no way speak for him or the forums, this is just my interpretation on the matter.

In the US, there is no federal law which expressly prohibits online gambling. However there are laws which deal with wire fraud and money laundering, etc.

Online gambling is legal in some states. Online sports betting as well in others.

Louisiana is one such state which has no laws regarding any types of online casinos. NJ allows poker and other games.

My point to this post was simply Ponzis by their very name alone are "Bad for Business".

GAMBLING

1. play games of chance for money; bet.
"she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"
synonyms:   bet, place/lay a bet on something, stake money on something, back the horses, game; informalplay the ponies
"he started to gamble more often"
bet (a sum of money) on a game of chance.
"he was gambling every penny he had on the spin of a wheel"

PONZI

Scam in which gullible public is enticed with the promise of very high returns in a very short time, but is based on paying off the early 'investors' from the cash from (hopefully ever increasing number of) new 'investors.' The whole structure collapses when the cash outflow exceeds the cash inflow. The originators of the scheme, however, usually disappear with large sums a few days before the crash. Named after Charles Ponzi (1882-1949), an Italian immigrant to the US who, during 1919-20 collected more than fifteen million dollars from some 40,000 eager people by promising to double their investment in 90 days. See also pyramid scheme.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/Ponzi-scheme.html#ixzz3QwcqN4M9

Strato

[SirChiko]

If you use your brqin, you won't fall for it. If you do then you are greedy and it's your fault. Anybody can adiverse anything as long as it's not against forum rules

[Muhammed Zakir]

If you use your brqin, you won't fall for it. If you do then you are greedy and it's your fault. Anybody can adiverse anything as long as it's not against forum rules

He(we) is(are) trying to change the forum's rule as it maybe against other general rules.

   -MZ

[SaltySpitoon]

Technically isn't all online gambling illegal in the U.S/Russia/Others, so why not remove the gambling section all together?

Theres is a sliding scale of legal involvement in hosting content online. Bitcointalk has very minimal involvement in classified/service listings. It could probably get in trouble for accepting advertising payments from Ponzi sites, but if we aren't promoting the sites, and not collecting a fee on the listings, we have very different levels of legal involvements. (Think Ebay vs Craigslist) if you sell Crack on Ebay, Ebay gets in trouble, if you sell Crack on Craigslist, the authorities might subpoena information from Craigslist to go after the individuals, but Craigslist isn't on the hot seat. I dont recall if Ponzis have ever been advertised by the forum, but I believe there is a general disclaimer to check your jurisdiction before participating. Theymos is all over the legal stuff, and I in no way speak for him or the forums, this is just my interpretation on the matter.

In the US, there is no federal law which expressly prohibits online gambling. However there are laws which deal with wire fraud and money laundering, etc.

Online gambling is legal in some states. Online sports betting as well in others.

Louisiana is one such state which has no laws regarding any types of online casinos. NJ allows poker and other games.

My point to this post was simply Ponzis by their very name alone are "Bad for Business".

GAMBLING

1. play games of chance for money; bet.
"she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"
synonyms:   bet, place/lay a bet on something, stake money on something, back the horses, game; informalplay the ponies
"he started to gamble more often"
bet (a sum of money) on a game of chance.
"he was gambling every penny he had on the spin of a wheel"

PONZI

Scam in which gullible public is enticed with the promise of very high returns in a very short time, but is based on paying off the early 'investors' from the cash from (hopefully ever increasing number of) new 'investors.' The whole structure collapses when the cash outflow exceeds the cash inflow. The originators of the scheme, however, usually disappear with large sums a few days before the crash. Named after Charles Ponzi (1882-1949), an Italian immigrant to the US who, during 1919-20 collected more than fifteen million dollars from some 40,000 eager people by promising to double their investment in 90 days. See also pyramid scheme.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/Ponzi-scheme.html#ixzz3QwcqN4M9

Strato

Yeah I know the online gambling laws are vague and when drafted in 2006 I believe, they werent meant to ban online gaming, but court justices have cited those laws to prosecute online gambling sites. Satoshi dice bans US IPs for that reason. That said, I agree with you, Ponzi scams are no good, the problem is ponzi scams don't advertise that they are ponzi schemes, think Pirate@40.  The Ponzi schemes that come out and say they are ponzi schemes are a known gamble, but instead of a house that always wins like a poker/dice site, the first people in a ponzi are the house. In my opinion people should be able to gamble and lose their money however they want, as long as the gamble isnt misrepresented. A ponzi operator that announces the fact that they are a ponzi scheme I think is fair warning.

All of that aside, I highly doubt the forum rules will change in this regard. Bitcoin is about financial freedom, we arent here to protect your money, we are here to let you discuss Bitcoin etc. Try paypal if you want more security.

[eneloop]

bitcointalk should not allow any cloudmining or gambling advertisments. Just hardware manufactors/sellers. It's easy as that. Problem solved.

[Grand_Voyageur]

bitcointalk should not allow any cloudmining or gambling advertisments. Just hardware manufactors/sellers. It's easy as that. Problem solved.

Wrong!
Hardware manufacturers and sellers scammed too. As an example...Have you never heard of BFL?