Philipma1957's attempt to rate current Manufacturers of Asic . Results in.

[philipma1957]

Thread is now locked


I will revisit this idea in about 4-5 weeks

57 votes were taken.





full image.
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1091/J9oSGu.png

more shots on last page.

Second set of edits:  Thanks to Biffa we have an offsite google poll/survey

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

it allows 1 vote see second screen shot if you vote 2 times.--- yeah I am sure some know how to get around this. I would like to think it may be somewhat of a deterrent since we are looking for honesty here.

Screenshot of the survey



double vote gets you this.





I am doing this free of charge zip no fees paid to me.

 Since this thread was started by me on behalf of spondoolies-tech on the promise of a fee.  A lot of drama came of it. Thus my decision to not take a fee. SP-tech agreed to donate the fee to a charity of my choice. I will pick some charity that will take btc and ask sp-tech to put in the btc.  I will show the btc addy with the donation to it.
My original fee was to be equipment worth about 2btc.  
Staff/Mods if you will check my pm's you will see my requested fee was 1 sp20 and 2 sp20 fans so I could demo fan mods on a thread here. I wanted to be able to offer a quieter fan solution like the one I did for s-5's. On this thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=927941.0;all


That gear was about 2 btc in value.

***********************************************************************************************************************************


The info below is out of date

Lots of edits.

 This  thread got a lot of heated interest  and it shows a need for a more nimble go to guide to current gear+builders .
My poll was partially compromised  due to me not making the choice results blind until the poll ends so  I am no longer taking any compensation for this thread or the  7 polls. .      



A lot of us have purchased from  different builders of asic gear since BTC has started.  
Some builders of gear have been brutal really bad. Some pretty good.

I have been asked by a current builder of gear  to develop a poll/listing/rating of Manufacturers.
I won't reveal the builder of gear that asked me to do this.
I will say I will be compensated by that builder. no longer true I will not take fees to do this.


They want to ask these questions:

- Which, to your experience is the most trusted manufacturer?

- Which manufacturer has the best firmware ?

- Which manufacturer has the best support ?

- Which manufacturer cares the most about its customers ?

- Which is the overall most professional manufacturer ?

They want you to pick from:

1) AsicMiner
2) BitFury
3) BitmainTech
4) KNC
5) Spondoolies-Tech


I listed them in Alphabetical order.

So to do this correctly I will run 5 separate polls.  Each one for 10 days.

poll one first question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938258.new#new

poll two second question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938259.new#new

poll three third question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938260.new#new

poll four fourth question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938262.new#new

poll five fifth question  link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938263.new#new


After the 10 days I will post all five polls here.   EDIT: I will also tell the ex-sponser's name

This is an unfiltered thread.  I am really trying to do a transparent clean set of poll questions and answers.

Thank you.

I added 2 questions one was mine it is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938696.0    note this is a blind poll note the choices are a bit different

the other is jimmothy's

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938755.0 note this is a blind poll note the choices are a bit different.

[1715302899]

1715302899

[1715302899]

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[1715302899]

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[davecoin]

Why are BitFury and KNC on there?  Neither of them have a current realistic offering for home miners. 

Not trying to poo poo the poll, just pointing it out.

Without even reading the eligible candidates, one can easily answer Spondoolies to all of those questions.  Hands down. No contest.

[philipma1957]

Why are BitFury and KNC on there?  Neither of them have a current realistic offering for home miners. 

Not trying to poo poo the poll, just pointing it out.

Without even reading the eligible candidates, one can easily answer Spondoolies to all of those questions.  Hands down. No contest.

 I used the builders requested by the company that is compensating me to do the thread here and the 5 polls.

As you say BitFury and KNC no longer sell to much home miners.

 I would also mention Avalon is not on the list and I think they sell the Avalon4.

[davecoin]

Why are BitFury and KNC on there?  Neither of them have a current realistic offering for home miners. 

Not trying to poo poo the poll, just pointing it out.

Without even reading the eligible candidates, one can easily answer Spondoolies to all of those questions.  Hands down. No contest.

 I used the builders requested by the company that is compensating me to do the thread here and the 5 polls.

As you say BitFury and KNC no longer sell to much home miners.

 I would also mention Avalon is not on the list and I think they sell the Avalon4.

Yep, at ehash.com.

There's also some more obscure 3rd parties like BitCrane, XBTec, Rockminer, etc. 

[jimmothy]

Next question: Which manufacturer is located closest to Israel?

I support you making another manufacturers trustworthiness thread, but seriously those are bad questions. It's painfully obvious that this was SP-tech's idea idea because all the questions pander to their strengths.

[thomas_s]

Next question: Which manufacturer is located closest to Israel?

I support you making another manufacturers trustworthiness thread, but seriously those are bad questions. It's painfully obvious that this was SP-tech's idea idea because all the questions pander to their strengths.

What questions would you ask?

To me those questions are ones that anyone would ask when looking at a manufacturer and wanting to make a decision on who to purchase from. But it could be expanded a bit more in detail.

I'd be happy to put one together if provided some of the questions(open ended, multiple choice, scale rating etc). Open ended questions tend to get much better results than from closed / multiple choice selections.

[philipma1957]

I was told I could add any questions I want so far you and dogie have pointed out these questions favor sp-tech.

I offered dogie to pose a legit question and I would do poll 6.
 Since you are the second person to ask about the question quality I offer you question number 7. make it a good one.

1 restriction the 5 companies to choose from are the original 5.

This leaves out avalon at the moment as they are selling the avalon4.

What I will do is add 2 or 3 more poll questions from miners like your self. I will also ask 1 myself.

So we will have the first 5 from my employer.

Plus 2 or 3 from miners and 1 from me.

@ thomas_s please write something up I am willing to consider it.

[jimmothy]

Some questions I feel are missing:

- Which manufacturer sells the most profitable hardware (historically)?
- Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
- Which manufacturer ships on time the most?

[thomas_s]

Some questions I feel are missing:

- Which manufacturer sells the most profitable hardware (historically)?
- Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
- Which manufacturer ships on time the most?

2nd two are ok first one is not. The reason for it is simple profit is determined by the person who has the equipment, how they purchased, when they purchased, how much it costs in power.

For that one I would still say SP, SP has been more profitable on equipment than any of the other companies (baring if you had one of the first few BFL products), Bitmain has sold equipment and before the units even shipped dropped the price by a decent amount, their reaction was literally a shrug like o well.

Second question is a bit better, still personal preference tho, I don't really mind any noise that is constant as long as it doesn't change frequently I could care less at noise level, exposed PCB's are not something I'd like lying around my house.

Third question, very favorable towards Bitmain, if I'm not mistaken they have missed a shipping deadline once or twice before, but then again they ship from farms.

Putting a why did you select this answer is a good way to actually judge the meanings of the answers.

Something like,
1) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
1a) Why did you make that selection

2) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for a data center?
2a) Why....

Using only multiple choice causes a problem where every question can be "sided" towards one person / company, if you've ever participated in research surveys you should know that most of the questions are scale based or put in your own text / explanation. (I've both made / calculated the results and participated in these)

[philipma1957]

Some questions I feel are missing:

- Which manufacturer sells the most profitable hardware (historically)?
- Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
- Which manufacturer ships on time the most?

Number 1 is too subjective but a good question.
one could argue radeon 5790 gpus where the best item ever made for coins.
one could argue avalon when the first one came out.
one could argue knc the october model
one could argue bfl but they mined it for theirslves.

If you want  current gear or for the last 3 months.  
I think it is better.
 I say this because sp10's ,s-1's, s-2's ,s-3's no longer earn.  

  I do like number 2 a lot.

  I do like number 3 a lot.

AT thomas_s and jimmothy I will write up the 2nd and 3rd in new polls tonight.

[toptekk]

 Which, to your experience is the most trusted manufacturer?
Bitm ainTech  they have yet to do me wrong on anything  i bought from them


- Which manufacturer has the best firmware ?
to me firmware is firmware  

- Which manufacturer has the best support ?
can 't say bitmain for me  but from what Ive seen and heard Spondoolies-Tech is up there with BMT.

- Which manufacturer cares the most about its customers ?
Spondoolies-Tech and  BMT.

- Which is the overall most professional manufacturer ?
Spondoolies-Tech and  BMT.


2) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for a data center? AsicMiner
2a) Why.... there support and way of  doing things seems more  commercial then anything .which is cool .


3 last two hm well  we know  

3)Bitm ainTech  top of the list then
5) Spondoolies-Tech
1) AsicMiner


The last two i would not trust as far i can throw them.



2) BitFury  isn't this BFL  well  we know how that goes
4) KNC  I have nothing nice to say about .

[jimmothy]

For that one I would still say SP, SP has been more profitable on equipment than any of the other companies (baring if you had one of the first few BFL products), Bitmain has sold equipment and before the units even shipped dropped the price by a decent amount, their reaction was literally a shrug like o well.

Can you elaborate? I think the only SPtech hardware that had a chance to turn a profit by now is the SP10. On the other hand, almost every ASIC Bitmain offered was able to turn a profit.

I see pricing as just another way manufacturers stick up for their customers.

Putting a why did you select this answer is a good way to actually judge the meanings of the answers.

Something like,
1) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
1a) Why did you make that selection

2) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for a data center?
2a) Why....

Using only multiple choice causes a problem where every question can be "sided" towards one person / company, if you've ever participated in research surveys you should know that most of the questions are scale based or put in your own text / explanation. (I've both made / calculated the results and participated in these)

Agreed.

[Tupsu]

Next question: Which manufacturer is located closest to Israel?

.....

I ask instead, what manufacturer miners  burn out  a higher flame and may ignite a fire ?

[dogie]

How about:
6a) Which manufacturer pays legendary members who are known to be positive towards their company, to commission and adjudicate polls that are biased towards their company, because they were unhappy with another user's ranking, and then tries to hide that they're actually the company paying for and commissioning them?
6b) Which manufacturer used a preorder model? [can't do this one on the forums, should really be doing this on survey monkey anyway]
6c) Which manufacturer should just be patient and await their perfect '100' score in dogie's rating if they follow through with promises, rather than going through all this and making things worse for themselves?
6d) Which manufacturer should stop trying to drag other's name through the dirt in order to fit a short term agenda, which through the virtue of NDAs can not be discussed, even when the topic / question is directly brought up by themselves?

[Tupsu]

How about:
6a) Which manufacturer pays legendary members who are known to be positive towards their company, to commission and adjudicate polls that are biased towards their company, because they were unhappy with another user's ranking, and then tries to hide that they're actually the company paying for and commissioning them?
6b) Which manufacturer used a preorder model? [can't do this one on the forums, should really be doing this on survey monkey anyway]

Dogie, you're more childish than my grandchildren together.
Get one time to understand,  you represent today greedy and disgusting company, who sells his old used miners .

Who cares about your opinion, we all know who  pay you.

[philipma1957]

How about:
6a) Which manufacturer pays legendary members who are known to be positive towards their company, to commission and adjudicate polls that are biased towards their company, because they were unhappy with another user's ranking, and then tries to hide that they're actually the company paying for and commissioning them?
6b) Which manufacturer used a preorder model? [can't do this one on the forums, should really be doing this on survey monkey anyway]
6c) Which manufacturer should just be patient and await their perfect '100' score in dogie's rating if they follow through with promises, rather than going through all this and making things worse for themselves?
6d) Which manufacturer should stop trying to drag other's name through the dirt in order to fit a short term agenda, which through the virtue of NDAs can not be discussed, even on the prompt of the manufacturer them self?

 I like you dogie.
 I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.
 This is a paid survey and the builder that hired me gave me the choice to reveal whom he or she is. I chose to say I am paid but not by whom. I have pm's to prove this.  You need to understand why I choose to leave the builders name out I do not want to  influence the pools.
  I also understand why you are annoyed you were questioned on a thread  that was out of date. You do not like that.

 This poll is not about you it is about current  manufactures. If it was my poll and not hired for me to run .  I would use 4 companies as 4 are selling gear that is for the home miner.  Since I am allowed ask my own uncensored question it will be.

What miner would you buy for your home?
1) Asicminer Prisma
2) Avalon   model 4
3) BitmainTech S-5
4) Spondoolies-Tech Sp20

@Tupsu  thanks for support.  I new this might slip into he said she said. 

@ dogie if I said avalon hired me and left their name off the list of current miners would you believe that?

[dogie]

I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.

Unfortunately you've not been told the whole story - there is a very, very specific agenda these polls are being used for hence the homefield questions. And unfortunately that agenda and the way its being played out is incredibly shady. But of course that's not something I am able / willing to reveal.

What I'm trying to say is the thing which this industry needs the most is transparency, and the events that have transpired today are anything but that.

[philipma1957]

I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.

Unfortunately you've not been told the whole story - there is a very, very specific agenda these polls are being used for hence the homefield questions. And unfortunately that agenda and the way its being played out is incredibly shady. But of course that's not something I am able / willing to reveal.

What I'm trying to say is the thing which this industry needs the most is transparency, and the events that have transpired today are anything but that.

Well then this bears a legit reason for concern.

As does Spondoolies questions   on your trustworthy list having 2 companies as 1 and 2  when they no longer sell to  home miners.

I am not looking to be played by  you or my employer for this polling.

To some degree I feel :
DzCoop-Round 17- Black Arrow played me
GAW-Zen-Paycoin tried to play me but I stopped quicker and told others to do so.

I really do not want this to happen even if I do not get any payments for this thread at all.  
I really rather an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

So I did mention the companies listed and the first 5 questions are from the employer not me.
I also am going to post more questions to poll.  As suggested by people on this thread.
I really rather this to be  an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

 MY choice to not reveal the employer is my choice.
Dogie you made it an issue and I respect that.
I want the polls to have been finished before the sponsor of the thread is revealed. So on Feb 7th I will post the results of the polls and name the company that sponsored me to do this.
I will be adding 3 more questions later tonight.

[notlist3d]

I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.

Unfortunately you've not been told the whole story - there is a very, very specific agenda these polls are being used for hence the homefield questions. And unfortunately that agenda and the way its being played out is incredibly shady. But of course that's not something I am able / willing to reveal.

What I'm trying to say is the thing which this industry needs the most is transparency, and the events that have transpired today are anything but that.

Well then this bears a legit reason for concern.

As does Spondoolies questions   on your trustworthy list having 2 companies as 1 and 2  when they no longer sell to  home miners.

I am not looking to be played by  you or my employer for this polling.

To some degree I feel :
DzCoop-Round 17- Black Arrow played me
GAW-Zen-Paycoin tried to play me but I stopped quicker and told others to do so.

I really do not want this to happen even if I do not get any payments for this thread at all.  
I really rather an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

So I did mention the companies listed and the first 5 questions are from the employer not me.
I also am going to post more questions to poll.  As suggested by people on this thread.
I really rather this to be  an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

 MY choice to not reveal the employer is my choice.
Dogie you made it an issue and I respect that.
I want the polls to have been finished before the sponsor of the thread is revealed. So on Feb 7th I will post the results of the polls and name the company that sponsored me to do this.
I will be adding 3 more questions later tonight.

I have to admit I am curious what company is behind it.   But no matter who is behind it there seems to be a lot leaning to the same manufacture.  I think the companies fighting for customers is good for miners.  We all know it's really between two companies on current gen in my eyes for home miners.

*EDIT I should add I personally like this thread and asking these questions.  Should be interesting to see.

[Bicknellski]

A lot of us have purchased from  different builders of asic gear since BTC has started.  
Some builders of gear have been brutal really bad. Some pretty good.

I have been asked by a current builder of gear  to develop a poll/listing/rating of Manufacturers.
I won't reveal the builder of gear that asked me to do this.
I will say I will be compensated by that builder.


They want to ask these questions:

- Which, to your experience is the most trusted manufacturer?

- Which manufacturer has the best firmware ?

- Which manufacturer has the best support ?

- Which manufacturer cares the most about its customers ?

- Which is the overall most professional manufacturer ?

They want you to pick from:

1) AsicMiner
2) BitFury
3) BitmainTech
4) KNC
5) Spondoolies-Tech


I listed them in Alphabetical order.

So to do this correctly I will run 5 separate polls.  Each one for 10 days.

poll one first question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938258.new#new

poll two second question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938259.new#new

poll three third question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938260.new#new

poll four fourth question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938262.new#new

poll five fifth question  link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938263.new#new


After the 10 days I will post all five polls here.

This is an unfiltered thread.  I am really trying to do a transparent clean set of poll questions and answers.

Thank you.

Dare to ask the right questions directly to the community... nice. I think we can retire a number of GUIDES if you keep the polling going on a quarterly basis. Although PAID it is nice to see a survey of what customers and users think as opposed to ratings systems skewed in favor of the producers to the detriment of the consumers.

It is Spondoolies Tech obviously given that they already know how this poll would skew. We all know which direction it would go based on those questions. The main reason Dogie is "questioning" these polls is the fact that they are obviously reflecting BADLY on those companies he is paid by currently. It would be nice if you summarize the results and keep doing polls for consumers and users alike that is what is missing here in Hardware guides at the moment.