Philipma1957's attempt to rate current Manufacturers of Asic . Results in.

[philipma1957]

Thread is now locked


I will revisit this idea in about 4-5 weeks

57 votes were taken.





full image.
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1091/J9oSGu.png

more shots on last page.

Second set of edits:  Thanks to Biffa we have an offsite google poll/survey

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

it allows 1 vote see second screen shot if you vote 2 times.--- yeah I am sure some know how to get around this. I would like to think it may be somewhat of a deterrent since we are looking for honesty here.

Screenshot of the survey



double vote gets you this.





I am doing this free of charge zip no fees paid to me.

 Since this thread was started by me on behalf of spondoolies-tech on the promise of a fee.  A lot of drama came of it. Thus my decision to not take a fee. SP-tech agreed to donate the fee to a charity of my choice. I will pick some charity that will take btc and ask sp-tech to put in the btc.  I will show the btc addy with the donation to it.
My original fee was to be equipment worth about 2btc.  
Staff/Mods if you will check my pm's you will see my requested fee was 1 sp20 and 2 sp20 fans so I could demo fan mods on a thread here. I wanted to be able to offer a quieter fan solution like the one I did for s-5's. On this thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=927941.0;all


That gear was about 2 btc in value.

***********************************************************************************************************************************


The info below is out of date

Lots of edits.

 This  thread got a lot of heated interest  and it shows a need for a more nimble go to guide to current gear+builders .
My poll was partially compromised  due to me not making the choice results blind until the poll ends so  I am no longer taking any compensation for this thread or the  7 polls. .      



A lot of us have purchased from  different builders of asic gear since BTC has started.  
Some builders of gear have been brutal really bad. Some pretty good.

I have been asked by a current builder of gear  to develop a poll/listing/rating of Manufacturers.
I won't reveal the builder of gear that asked me to do this.
I will say I will be compensated by that builder. no longer true I will not take fees to do this.


They want to ask these questions:

- Which, to your experience is the most trusted manufacturer?

- Which manufacturer has the best firmware ?

- Which manufacturer has the best support ?

- Which manufacturer cares the most about its customers ?

- Which is the overall most professional manufacturer ?

They want you to pick from:

1) AsicMiner
2) BitFury
3) BitmainTech
4) KNC
5) Spondoolies-Tech


I listed them in Alphabetical order.

So to do this correctly I will run 5 separate polls.  Each one for 10 days.

poll one first question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938258.new#new

poll two second question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938259.new#new

poll three third question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938260.new#new

poll four fourth question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938262.new#new

poll five fifth question  link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938263.new#new


After the 10 days I will post all five polls here.   EDIT: I will also tell the ex-sponser's name

This is an unfiltered thread.  I am really trying to do a transparent clean set of poll questions and answers.

Thank you.

I added 2 questions one was mine it is here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938696.0    note this is a blind poll note the choices are a bit different

the other is jimmothy's

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938755.0 note this is a blind poll note the choices are a bit different.

[1715631087]

1715631087

[1715631087]

1715631087

[davecoin]

Why are BitFury and KNC on there?  Neither of them have a current realistic offering for home miners. 

Not trying to poo poo the poll, just pointing it out.

Without even reading the eligible candidates, one can easily answer Spondoolies to all of those questions.  Hands down. No contest.

[philipma1957]

Why are BitFury and KNC on there?  Neither of them have a current realistic offering for home miners. 

Not trying to poo poo the poll, just pointing it out.

Without even reading the eligible candidates, one can easily answer Spondoolies to all of those questions.  Hands down. No contest.

 I used the builders requested by the company that is compensating me to do the thread here and the 5 polls.

As you say BitFury and KNC no longer sell to much home miners.

 I would also mention Avalon is not on the list and I think they sell the Avalon4.

[davecoin]

Why are BitFury and KNC on there?  Neither of them have a current realistic offering for home miners. 

Not trying to poo poo the poll, just pointing it out.

Without even reading the eligible candidates, one can easily answer Spondoolies to all of those questions.  Hands down. No contest.

 I used the builders requested by the company that is compensating me to do the thread here and the 5 polls.

As you say BitFury and KNC no longer sell to much home miners.

 I would also mention Avalon is not on the list and I think they sell the Avalon4.

Yep, at ehash.com.

There's also some more obscure 3rd parties like BitCrane, XBTec, Rockminer, etc. 

[jimmothy]

Next question: Which manufacturer is located closest to Israel?

I support you making another manufacturers trustworthiness thread, but seriously those are bad questions. It's painfully obvious that this was SP-tech's idea idea because all the questions pander to their strengths.

[thomas_s]

Next question: Which manufacturer is located closest to Israel?

I support you making another manufacturers trustworthiness thread, but seriously those are bad questions. It's painfully obvious that this was SP-tech's idea idea because all the questions pander to their strengths.

What questions would you ask?

To me those questions are ones that anyone would ask when looking at a manufacturer and wanting to make a decision on who to purchase from. But it could be expanded a bit more in detail.

I'd be happy to put one together if provided some of the questions(open ended, multiple choice, scale rating etc). Open ended questions tend to get much better results than from closed / multiple choice selections.

[philipma1957]

I was told I could add any questions I want so far you and dogie have pointed out these questions favor sp-tech.

I offered dogie to pose a legit question and I would do poll 6.
 Since you are the second person to ask about the question quality I offer you question number 7. make it a good one.

1 restriction the 5 companies to choose from are the original 5.

This leaves out avalon at the moment as they are selling the avalon4.

What I will do is add 2 or 3 more poll questions from miners like your self. I will also ask 1 myself.

So we will have the first 5 from my employer.

Plus 2 or 3 from miners and 1 from me.

@ thomas_s please write something up I am willing to consider it.

[jimmothy]

Some questions I feel are missing:

- Which manufacturer sells the most profitable hardware (historically)?
- Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
- Which manufacturer ships on time the most?

[thomas_s]

Some questions I feel are missing:

- Which manufacturer sells the most profitable hardware (historically)?
- Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
- Which manufacturer ships on time the most?

2nd two are ok first one is not. The reason for it is simple profit is determined by the person who has the equipment, how they purchased, when they purchased, how much it costs in power.

For that one I would still say SP, SP has been more profitable on equipment than any of the other companies (baring if you had one of the first few BFL products), Bitmain has sold equipment and before the units even shipped dropped the price by a decent amount, their reaction was literally a shrug like o well.

Second question is a bit better, still personal preference tho, I don't really mind any noise that is constant as long as it doesn't change frequently I could care less at noise level, exposed PCB's are not something I'd like lying around my house.

Third question, very favorable towards Bitmain, if I'm not mistaken they have missed a shipping deadline once or twice before, but then again they ship from farms.

Putting a why did you select this answer is a good way to actually judge the meanings of the answers.

Something like,
1) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
1a) Why did you make that selection

2) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for a data center?
2a) Why....

Using only multiple choice causes a problem where every question can be "sided" towards one person / company, if you've ever participated in research surveys you should know that most of the questions are scale based or put in your own text / explanation. (I've both made / calculated the results and participated in these)

[philipma1957]

Some questions I feel are missing:

- Which manufacturer sells the most profitable hardware (historically)?
- Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
- Which manufacturer ships on time the most?

Number 1 is too subjective but a good question.
one could argue radeon 5790 gpus where the best item ever made for coins.
one could argue avalon when the first one came out.
one could argue knc the october model
one could argue bfl but they mined it for theirslves.

If you want  current gear or for the last 3 months.  
I think it is better.
 I say this because sp10's ,s-1's, s-2's ,s-3's no longer earn.  

  I do like number 2 a lot.

  I do like number 3 a lot.

AT thomas_s and jimmothy I will write up the 2nd and 3rd in new polls tonight.

[toptekk]

 Which, to your experience is the most trusted manufacturer?
Bitm ainTech  they have yet to do me wrong on anything  i bought from them


- Which manufacturer has the best firmware ?
to me firmware is firmware  

- Which manufacturer has the best support ?
can 't say bitmain for me  but from what Ive seen and heard Spondoolies-Tech is up there with BMT.

- Which manufacturer cares the most about its customers ?
Spondoolies-Tech and  BMT.

- Which is the overall most professional manufacturer ?
Spondoolies-Tech and  BMT.


2) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for a data center? AsicMiner
2a) Why.... there support and way of  doing things seems more  commercial then anything .which is cool .


3 last two hm well  we know  

3)Bitm ainTech  top of the list then
5) Spondoolies-Tech
1) AsicMiner


The last two i would not trust as far i can throw them.



2) BitFury  isn't this BFL  well  we know how that goes
4) KNC  I have nothing nice to say about .

[jimmothy]

For that one I would still say SP, SP has been more profitable on equipment than any of the other companies (baring if you had one of the first few BFL products), Bitmain has sold equipment and before the units even shipped dropped the price by a decent amount, their reaction was literally a shrug like o well.

Can you elaborate? I think the only SPtech hardware that had a chance to turn a profit by now is the SP10. On the other hand, almost every ASIC Bitmain offered was able to turn a profit.

I see pricing as just another way manufacturers stick up for their customers.

Putting a why did you select this answer is a good way to actually judge the meanings of the answers.

Something like,
1) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for the home?
1a) Why did you make that selection

2) Which manufacturer sells hardware best designed for a data center?
2a) Why....

Using only multiple choice causes a problem where every question can be "sided" towards one person / company, if you've ever participated in research surveys you should know that most of the questions are scale based or put in your own text / explanation. (I've both made / calculated the results and participated in these)

Agreed.

[Tupsu]

Next question: Which manufacturer is located closest to Israel?

.....

I ask instead, what manufacturer miners  burn out  a higher flame and may ignite a fire ?

[dogie]

How about:
6a) Which manufacturer pays legendary members who are known to be positive towards their company, to commission and adjudicate polls that are biased towards their company, because they were unhappy with another user's ranking, and then tries to hide that they're actually the company paying for and commissioning them?
6b) Which manufacturer used a preorder model? [can't do this one on the forums, should really be doing this on survey monkey anyway]
6c) Which manufacturer should just be patient and await their perfect '100' score in dogie's rating if they follow through with promises, rather than going through all this and making things worse for themselves?
6d) Which manufacturer should stop trying to drag other's name through the dirt in order to fit a short term agenda, which through the virtue of NDAs can not be discussed, even when the topic / question is directly brought up by themselves?

[Tupsu]

How about:
6a) Which manufacturer pays legendary members who are known to be positive towards their company, to commission and adjudicate polls that are biased towards their company, because they were unhappy with another user's ranking, and then tries to hide that they're actually the company paying for and commissioning them?
6b) Which manufacturer used a preorder model? [can't do this one on the forums, should really be doing this on survey monkey anyway]

Dogie, you're more childish than my grandchildren together.
Get one time to understand,  you represent today greedy and disgusting company, who sells his old used miners .

Who cares about your opinion, we all know who  pay you.

[philipma1957]

How about:
6a) Which manufacturer pays legendary members who are known to be positive towards their company, to commission and adjudicate polls that are biased towards their company, because they were unhappy with another user's ranking, and then tries to hide that they're actually the company paying for and commissioning them?
6b) Which manufacturer used a preorder model? [can't do this one on the forums, should really be doing this on survey monkey anyway]
6c) Which manufacturer should just be patient and await their perfect '100' score in dogie's rating if they follow through with promises, rather than going through all this and making things worse for themselves?
6d) Which manufacturer should stop trying to drag other's name through the dirt in order to fit a short term agenda, which through the virtue of NDAs can not be discussed, even on the prompt of the manufacturer them self?

 I like you dogie.
 I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.
 This is a paid survey and the builder that hired me gave me the choice to reveal whom he or she is. I chose to say I am paid but not by whom. I have pm's to prove this.  You need to understand why I choose to leave the builders name out I do not want to  influence the pools.
  I also understand why you are annoyed you were questioned on a thread  that was out of date. You do not like that.

 This poll is not about you it is about current  manufactures. If it was my poll and not hired for me to run .  I would use 4 companies as 4 are selling gear that is for the home miner.  Since I am allowed ask my own uncensored question it will be.

What miner would you buy for your home?
1) Asicminer Prisma
2) Avalon   model 4
3) BitmainTech S-5
4) Spondoolies-Tech Sp20

@Tupsu  thanks for support.  I new this might slip into he said she said. 

@ dogie if I said avalon hired me and left their name off the list of current miners would you believe that?

[dogie]

I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.

Unfortunately you've not been told the whole story - there is a very, very specific agenda these polls are being used for hence the homefield questions. And unfortunately that agenda and the way its being played out is incredibly shady. But of course that's not something I am able / willing to reveal.

What I'm trying to say is the thing which this industry needs the most is transparency, and the events that have transpired today are anything but that.

[philipma1957]

I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.

Unfortunately you've not been told the whole story - there is a very, very specific agenda these polls are being used for hence the homefield questions. And unfortunately that agenda and the way its being played out is incredibly shady. But of course that's not something I am able / willing to reveal.

What I'm trying to say is the thing which this industry needs the most is transparency, and the events that have transpired today are anything but that.

Well then this bears a legit reason for concern.

As does Spondoolies questions   on your trustworthy list having 2 companies as 1 and 2  when they no longer sell to  home miners.

I am not looking to be played by  you or my employer for this polling.

To some degree I feel :
DzCoop-Round 17- Black Arrow played me
GAW-Zen-Paycoin tried to play me but I stopped quicker and told others to do so.

I really do not want this to happen even if I do not get any payments for this thread at all.  
I really rather an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

So I did mention the companies listed and the first 5 questions are from the employer not me.
I also am going to post more questions to poll.  As suggested by people on this thread.
I really rather this to be  an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

 MY choice to not reveal the employer is my choice.
Dogie you made it an issue and I respect that.
I want the polls to have been finished before the sponsor of the thread is revealed. So on Feb 7th I will post the results of the polls and name the company that sponsored me to do this.
I will be adding 3 more questions later tonight.

[notlist3d]

I agreed to do this because I was allowed to add my own questions. I choose to keep the companies name out of this.

Unfortunately you've not been told the whole story - there is a very, very specific agenda these polls are being used for hence the homefield questions. And unfortunately that agenda and the way its being played out is incredibly shady. But of course that's not something I am able / willing to reveal.

What I'm trying to say is the thing which this industry needs the most is transparency, and the events that have transpired today are anything but that.

Well then this bears a legit reason for concern.

As does Spondoolies questions   on your trustworthy list having 2 companies as 1 and 2  when they no longer sell to  home miners.

I am not looking to be played by  you or my employer for this polling.

To some degree I feel :
DzCoop-Round 17- Black Arrow played me
GAW-Zen-Paycoin tried to play me but I stopped quicker and told others to do so.

I really do not want this to happen even if I do not get any payments for this thread at all.  
I really rather an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

So I did mention the companies listed and the first 5 questions are from the employer not me.
I also am going to post more questions to poll.  As suggested by people on this thread.
I really rather this to be  an effort to be honest then a choice to be secretive.

 MY choice to not reveal the employer is my choice.
Dogie you made it an issue and I respect that.
I want the polls to have been finished before the sponsor of the thread is revealed. So on Feb 7th I will post the results of the polls and name the company that sponsored me to do this.
I will be adding 3 more questions later tonight.

I have to admit I am curious what company is behind it.   But no matter who is behind it there seems to be a lot leaning to the same manufacture.  I think the companies fighting for customers is good for miners.  We all know it's really between two companies on current gen in my eyes for home miners.

*EDIT I should add I personally like this thread and asking these questions.  Should be interesting to see.

[Bicknellski]

A lot of us have purchased from  different builders of asic gear since BTC has started.  
Some builders of gear have been brutal really bad. Some pretty good.

I have been asked by a current builder of gear  to develop a poll/listing/rating of Manufacturers.
I won't reveal the builder of gear that asked me to do this.
I will say I will be compensated by that builder.


They want to ask these questions:

- Which, to your experience is the most trusted manufacturer?

- Which manufacturer has the best firmware ?

- Which manufacturer has the best support ?

- Which manufacturer cares the most about its customers ?

- Which is the overall most professional manufacturer ?

They want you to pick from:

1) AsicMiner
2) BitFury
3) BitmainTech
4) KNC
5) Spondoolies-Tech


I listed them in Alphabetical order.

So to do this correctly I will run 5 separate polls.  Each one for 10 days.

poll one first question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938258.new#new

poll two second question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938259.new#new

poll three third question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938260.new#new

poll four fourth question link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938262.new#new

poll five fifth question  link is :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938263.new#new


After the 10 days I will post all five polls here.

This is an unfiltered thread.  I am really trying to do a transparent clean set of poll questions and answers.

Thank you.

Dare to ask the right questions directly to the community... nice. I think we can retire a number of GUIDES if you keep the polling going on a quarterly basis. Although PAID it is nice to see a survey of what customers and users think as opposed to ratings systems skewed in favor of the producers to the detriment of the consumers.

It is Spondoolies Tech obviously given that they already know how this poll would skew. We all know which direction it would go based on those questions. The main reason Dogie is "questioning" these polls is the fact that they are obviously reflecting BADLY on those companies he is paid by currently. It would be nice if you summarize the results and keep doing polls for consumers and users alike that is what is missing here in Hardware guides at the moment.

[Zich]

[philipma1957]

You just skewed the poll. I wish you  had asked.

In a way it points out a very difficult problem on the site. How to keep the site fairly honest.  it is funny as I was writing this post  to respond to Bick  I went to post it and was told a new post came up.

[philipma1957]

So I am not going to take a fee for this. I will add 3 more questions .

 the 6th is  my question.

As a home miner which of the following would you want to buy Today?

1) Asic Mner --Prisma
2) Avalon ----- A4
3) Bitmaintech --S5
4) Spondoolies --SP20

[Swimmer63]

A lot of good comments.  Just my 2 bits:

Miners have a short "profit" life.  Any manufacturer poll can differ significantly depending on who has the hot miners.  Bitfury is not relevant right now and may not be again.  But if you took this poll last spring the answers would be very different.
And if you take it 3 months from now the answers will be different.
I will say that Bitmain and Spondoolies are the first manufacturers to show a consistent and relevant product line.  Asicminer has made great miners in the past and is the most generous with returns.  But there can be a long time where they don't have hot miner.  There are others like this.

So timing of this sort of survey is everything.

[philipma1957]

A lot of good comments.  Just my 2 bits:

Miners have a short "profit" life.  Any manufacturer poll can differ significantly depending on who has the hot miners.  Bitfury is not relevant right now and may not be again.  But if you took this poll last spring the answers would be very different.
And if you take it 3 months from now the answers will be different.
I will say that Bitmain and Spondoolies are the first manufacturers to show a consistent and relevant product line.  Asicminer has made great miners in the past and is the most generous with returns.  But there can be a long time where they don't have hot miner.  There are others like this.

So timing of this sort of survey is everything.

yep and I am reworking this as I type. 6th question is here. it is my question and it is blind poll.  Meaning no visible results until feb 6th.

I will put two more polls up later
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938696.msg10284107#msg10284107

[opieum2]

Why do we need 6 or 7 polls for the same thing? Seems like a way to game the SEO to get your benefactors results up. All this just to bury a less than stellar review from dogie? Granted his reviews are not perfect, but they certainly have been a good guide to getting to a decent vendor. These polls come on the heels of spondoolies complaining in dogies thread about their pre-order rating (something the community overall hates as it puts the financial risk on the customer).

Overall they have proven themselves as a vendor so no knocks from me personally, but the community has made it clear they hate pre-orders. So its a sticking point that lowers their ranking. This seems fair to rate against considering the history of the pre-orders in the mining community.

EDIT: IMO though I do think Dogie might need to consider handing off the review thing to someone else who is willing to take it on that does not give off a biased appearance. While I personally do not think he is, I can see why people would considering his affiliation with bitmain.

[Guy Corem]

How about:
6a) Which manufacturer pays legendary members who are known to be positive towards their company, to commission and adjudicate polls that are biased towards their company, because they were unhappy with another user's ranking, and then tries to hide that they're actually the company paying for and commissioning them?
6b) Which manufacturer used a preorder model? [can't do this one on the forums, should really be doing this on survey monkey anyway]
6c) Which manufacturer should just be patient and await their perfect '100' score in dogie's rating if they follow through with promises, rather than going through all this and making things worse for themselves?
6d) Which manufacturer should stop trying to drag other's name through the dirt in order to fit a short term agenda, which through the virtue of NDAs can not be discussed, even when the topic / question is directly brought up by themselves?

Dogie, my disagreement with you is very open and public:

(1) You tweaked the criteria of your manufacturer's Trustworthiness Guide, refuse to update it and claim we're "Pre-Orders" company although we're selling only from stock (shipping immediately!) and I've publicly said (several times!) that we won't take pre-orders on our 3rd gen due to the high risk of the development. Customers reading your guide are getting wrong information.

(2) You raised hell after we did our SP20 Legendaries review, including asking a moderator to revive "Spondoolies Spam" thread and move it from Trash to Meta. You also unjustifiably reported some of my posts in the SP20s review threads to moderators. You don't have the decency to admit it turns out very nice and we now have very interesting SP20, S5 and Avalon4 reviews with full of good and relevant information under hardware. It servers Hardware subsection and make it more interesting.

Guy

Edit:
Dogie, on a personal note (yeah, I'm aware it's public), admitting a mistake shows a strength of character. It's not a weakness.
I resent the statement you wrote - "drag other's name through the dirt". I consider you a friend and I believe you're doing positive stuff to promote and help the industry and the home miners. You need to separate our arguments from the rest. I'm not trying to hurt you in anyway.

[philipma1957]

Why do we need 6 or 7 polls for the same thing? Seems like a way to game the SEO to get your benefactors results up. All this just to bury a less than stellar review from dogie? Granted his reviews are not perfect, but they certainly have been a good guide to getting to a decent vendor. These polls come on the heels of spondoolies complaining in dogies thread about their pre-order rating (something the community overall hates as it puts the financial risk on the customer).

Overall they have proven themselves as a vendor so no knocks from me personally, but the community has made it clear they hate pre-orders. So its a sticking point that lowers their ranking. This seems fair to rate against considering the history of the pre-orders in the mining community.

EDIT: IMO though I do think Dogie might need to consider handing off the review thing to someone else who is willing to take it on that does not give off a biased appearance. While I personally do not think he is, I can see why people would considering his affiliation with bitmain.

I can't set it up any other way. I would prefer to do an 8-10 question survey.

Once every 6 weeks. Post it and do the survey six weeks later. Stays up to date  this way.

This thread has done  one thing for sure it points out a real need for a fair listing of current gear/builders. Based on available gear.

 Dogie's trustworthy list is a bit outdated and far too long.
 This thread is getting too long.
 Keeping the 8 polls with 8 questions is too long. But I don't have any other way.  right now I have 6 .
 5 are open to the public and 1 is blind until feb 6
 If I do 2 more they would be blind to the public until feb 6.
 I don't really want a war but it is plan to see there are a lot of strong behind the scenes discussions occurring.

[Zich]

Off topic
I hope in future we can post poll in message
One poll on one thread not reasonable anymore since one topic will have many point to poll.

[btcshiner]

Hey Phillipma1957 great thread.  

If we are going to keep driving our manufacturer's to produce consumer friendly home miners to increase decentralization we need to provide feedback to keep them competitive.  
The new Asicminer chip seems to have great specs, but if I have to fiddle with a "controller", ask people to fix stratum to increase pools because I don't have a linux machine or don't like the ones they "forced" on me, I probably won't buy it.  My time is worth fiat and that is something I now take into account when buying a miner.

Personally without the threads of the people who received SP20's I probably wouldn't even look at them.  Up until the SP20 the power in my house really couldn't support their previous miners at a price point that Bitmain did.  Good move.

I love Bitmain.  It's the one company that has never failed to deliver a working miner for me.  Even though my s2 was poorly shipped, the lcd never worked, I had it up and working in 10 minutes.  And it's still hashing above specs.  I sold a few thousand U1's and U2's, went through a lot of s1's and s3's and less than 1% of each ever had an issue and that was mostly user error.  That said I am glad they are getting some competition.  
They need to be kept honest and on their toes.

Someone mentioned Rockminer and unless I missed an update I don't think they are producing anymore miners unless they find a new cheaper factory or get some contract work based on AM new chips.

[jamesg]

Maybe there should be another poll about which mining manufacturer is going to start self-mining next....

[philipma1957]

Off topic
I hope in future we can post poll in message
One poll on one thread not reasonable anymore since one topic will have many point to poll.

yeah an 8 to 10 question survey to be done every 35-40 days is a good idea.

we could have a  thread to hammer out the questions and a few people could run the thread .   The asic game has always been 90 days at a time.

Or 120 day at a time.  Then new gear.  A survey kept up to date would really help people get the 'now' gear from the current good seller.

KNC was godlike for about 60-90 days.  Sept-Nov 2013.  Jupiter's were the hottest gear and made money hand over fist.

[btcshiner]

One more thing Have the manufacture that you set the first 5 questions up for Donate your funds to your favorite charity.  You already did the work and posted the questions.  The MS Society is my choice if you put it to vote.

[philipma1957]

One more thing Have the manufacture that you set the first 5 questions up for Donate your funds to your favorite charity.  You already did the work and posted the questions.  The MS Society is my choice if you put it to vote.

  If they choose to do that I will donate it and show proof of the donation.

Please  note polls were deleted  by the forum mods.-----------

 I would still prefer to do a survey of current miners / gear.

[Guy Corem]

...
Please  note polls were deleted  by the forum mods.-----------

 I would still prefer to do a survey of current miners / gear.

Dogie, is it you barking again to the moderators ?

[Finksy]

For the sake of transparency, I will disclose that there is only one thing I dislike about Bitmain, and that is Dogie's holier-than-thou attitude. The speech about agendas was very touching. The irony.



Now for relevance sake, even if SP-Tech is trying to toot their own horn, at least they care enough about their customers to address any downfall they might have in comparison to their competitors in an open forum. BMT's product has always been top notch, but they haven't exactly been open to criticism, constructive or not.

When you are the best, you don't have to be afraid of competition and ratings. That isn't to say anyone stays the best for long though.

[Guy Corem]

Well, thank you Zich for capturing a snapshot before the mods police kill it without explanation.
Unbelievable. I'm speechless.

Guy

[Zich]

Well, thank you Zich for capturing a snapshot before the mods police kill it without explanation.
Unbelievable. I'm speechless.

Guy

No problem  

My my, all of the poll is deleted  

[philipma1957]

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.



1) I run s-5's--------------------- 1 in house  1 at a Chinese hoster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934581.0

2) I run sp20's------------------- 9 in house

3) The avalon4 might be okay. read a review right here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938679.0


 One thing is obvious we need a better method to let people know what gear+ builders are worth using.

[Guy Corem]

Well, thank you Zich for capturing a snapshot before the mods police kill it without explanation.
Unbelievable. I'm speechless.

Guy

No problem  

My my, all of the poll is deleted  

I can't prove it, but I'm hearing sinister dog barks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g92VWIu8NQ

[Guy Corem]

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...

Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.

[Finksy]

One thing is obvious we need a better method to let people know what gear+ builders are worth using.

One that promotes transparency and lacks agendas? I couldn't agree more. Because what we have appears to be falling further from that spirit by the day.

[Guy Corem]

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...

Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.

I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938782.0

[iCEBREAKER]

Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.

In before

[notlist3d]

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...

Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.

I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938782.0

Truly sad to see it closed.  I will not post my thoughts, just that I think someone has a lot of pull on what happens. Apparently this poll he did not like.

[Guy Corem]

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...

Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.

I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938782.0

Truly sad to see it closed.  I will not post my thoughts, just that I think someone has a lot of pull on what happens. Apparently this poll he did not like.

Same here. I suspect foul play.

[Newar]

Same here. I suspect foul play.

Just make the poll at another site where you can have multiple questions and link to it from a thread from here. Discussion can take place in that thread.

[aurel57]

Not looking to do this anymore.

 Since this was cancelled to be fair Spondoolies-Tech ask me to do the thread and poll.
...

Confirmed. I also asked Philip to post whatever questions he wants and to freely change our questions if he wants to.
I believe Dogie's thread become irrelevant.

I opened a meta thread to discuss the poll removal by the mods, without any explanation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938782.0

Truly sad to see it closed.  I will not post my thoughts, just that I think someone has a lot of pull on what happens. Apparently this poll he did not like.

Same here. I suspect foul play.

What foul play here???  LOL its not the first time....

[Guy Corem]

Dogie admitted he reported the poll questions to the moderators.
I kindly ask a global moderator to move the questions threads from Trash to Archival and let the poll continue.

The results until the poll was interrupted by Dogie's actions:

[dogie]

EDIT: IMO though I do think Dogie might need to consider handing off the review thing to someone else who is willing to take it on that does not give off a biased appearance. While I personally do not think he is, I can see why people would considering his affiliation with bitmain.

Someone else is free to try, but they soon realise that its not worth the aggro it causes. Unless you do a Bick and start a monologue to yourself, running round the forum quoting dogie things

I can't set it up any other way. I would prefer to do an 8-10 question survey.
 Keeping the 8 polls with 8 questions is too long. But I don't have any other way.  right now I have 6 .
 5 are open to the public and 1 is blind until feb 6
 If I do 2 more they would be blind to the public until feb 6.
 I don't really want a war but it is plan to see there are a lot of strong behind the scenes discussions occurring.

Survey monkey, as I use. Might cost $30 if you go over 100 responses but you can always just open a second free one.

[Guy Corem]

...

I can't set it up any other way. I would prefer to do an 8-10 question survey.
 Keeping the 8 polls with 8 questions is too long. But I don't have any other way.  right now I have 6 .
 5 are open to the public and 1 is blind until feb 6
 If I do 2 more they would be blind to the public until feb 6.
 I don't really want a war but it is plan to see there are a lot of strong behind the scenes discussions occurring.

Survey monkey, as I use. Might cost $30 if you go over 100 responses but you can always just open a second free one.

Why taking the route of "reporting to moderators" instead of suggesting it to philipma1957 before ?
Don't you think you're using "report to moderators" too quickly ?

[dogie]

I consider you a friend and I believe you're doing positive stuff to promote and help the industry and the home miners. You need to separate our arguments from the rest. I'm not trying to hurt you in anyway.

My problem with that is we have loooong discussions on skype which include all sorts of information we can't talk about publicly. That discussion then ends, and I keep coming on here to find fresh posts provoking the same discussion on the forums, knowing full well that because of the NDA [which I hate, and wouldn't sign again in its previous form] I can't say the same things we just discussed on skype.

Dogie admitted he reported the poll questions to the moderators.
I kindly ask a global moderator to move the questions threads from Trash to Archival and let the poll continue.

The results until the poll was interrupted by Dogie's actions:

I reported ONE post with a 6 word comment, as did other users because it shouldn't have been posted over 6 (which we were later told would turn into 9 threads). I don't see 'moderator' or 'staff' next to my name and I certainly didn't delete your posts.

[Xian01]

Dogie admitted he reported the poll questions to the moderators.

Well, that's just ultimately cowardly and transparent of Dogie, considering he's employed by Bitmain.

I removed him from my trust list a while ago, and if I wasn't disillusioned with Bitmain before, I'm downright pissed off now that Dogie is running around off his leash and whimpering to the mods.

I get the feeling Bitmain is headed down the path of greed, trail-blazed by the likes of Butterfly Labs and KNC

Very frustrating - Having a desire to buy more S5's, but not being able to will myself, due to recent shenanigans.

Instead, "rage-purchased" an SP20 at a significantly reduced price off Ebay from a farm being decommissioned, and, horror-of-horrors, I'M GOING TO BE RUNNING IT INSIDE MY HOUSE !

AT FULL SPEED !!!

[dogie]

...

I can't set it up any other way. I would prefer to do an 8-10 question survey.
 Keeping the 8 polls with 8 questions is too long. But I don't have any other way.  right now I have 6 .
 5 are open to the public and 1 is blind until feb 6
 If I do 2 more they would be blind to the public until feb 6.
 I don't really want a war but it is plan to see there are a lot of strong behind the scenes discussions occurring.

Survey monkey, as I use. Might cost $30 if you go over 100 responses but you can always just open a second free one.

Why taking the route of "reporting to moderators" instead of suggesting it to philipma1957 before ?
Don't you think you're using "report to moderators" too quickly ?

Because moving what he had to survey monkey still would have led to him deleting those threads. By reporting to mod, users are summoning a mod to decide if the content infringes on forum rules and if so allow them to fix it. Its not on the user's head to fix that.

[Lets head over to meta now]

[Guy Corem]

...
My problem with that is we have loooong discussions on skype which include all sorts of information we can't talk about publicly. That discussion then ends, and I keep coming on here to find fresh posts provoking the same discussion on the forums, knowing full well that because of the NDA [which I hate, and wouldn't sign again in its previous form] I can't say the same things we just discussed on skype.
...

Our Skype discussion isn't related at all to what you did.
Beside the technical issue of Philip mistake, which has simple solution, what's your problem with an open poll ?
Philip is ok with adding questions per other forum member suggestions.

[Biffa]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

[philipma1957]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I would be willing to set up a thread using that survey.

I will screenshot it. give me 1 minute.  I would blow up the screenshot below give biffa's link post results' after 5 days.

Wait 25 days and do it again.

It would give a history of gear/builders------------------members opinons

It would be nice to go to this forum and see surveys for the last 3 years on a special thread. You could see if a company is improving getting worse etc. We simply are not doing this correctly right now.

Read this thread posted today


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=938901.0   

  This thread shows a need for info.

here is biffa's poll

[Biffa]

Happy for you to do that if you like.

If you fill out the survey you get the results as well in pretty graphs.

[philipma1957]

Happy for you to do that if you like.

If you fill out the survey you get the results as well in pretty graphs.

I posted a screen shot of the survey.

google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

So vote and I will post it on monday. I voted and read results as of now we have 4 votes in.

it allows 1 vote see second screen shot if you vote 2 times.--- yeah I sure some know how to get around this. I would like to think it may be somewhat of a deterrent since we are looking for honesty here.

[wpgdeez]

You could probably count on 1 hand how many people care about this poll.

[Bicknellski]

I applaud the effort it should give at least some solace to the last few bitter diehards still buying units for home use.


Feel sad for Dogie how will he get google to take down this survey form?

[philipma1957]

I applaud the effort it should give at least some solace to the last few bitter diehards still buying units for home use.

 quite hard to do this correctly biffa's idea should help somewhat.

 @ wpgdeez

  9 votes so far.  this means I need at least 2 hands to count those that care.

[Guy Corem]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I think that the poll should be open only to forum members. There is good chance it will be skewed now.

Guy

[Biffa]

You could probably count on 1 hand how many people care about this poll.

You'd need 8 hands if judging by the previous version that ran here for a few hours.

[philipma1957]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I think that the poll should be open only to forum members. There is good chance it will be skewed now.

Guy

Guy that boat has long sailed.

[Biffa]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I think that the poll should be open only to forum members. There is good chance it will be skewed now.

Guy

Oh I don't know, any poll can be skewed even the ones here if you put enough effort into it.

I made the gdrive one so you could only vote once (per google account)

[Guy Corem]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I think that the poll should be open only to forum members. There is good chance it will be skewed now.

Guy

Oh I don't know, any poll can be skewed even the ones here if you put enough effort into it.

I made the gdrive one so you could only vote once (per google account)

It's much easy to skew based only on email addresses, I believe.

[Guy Corem]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I think that the poll should be open only to forum members. There is good chance it will be skewed now.

Guy

Guy that boat has long sailed.

Indeed. I find the actions of a specific forum member horrible and sad.
Update the OP. - done.

This is what you should have done, IMHO:
Ask Theymos or the global mods to move the survey questions threads from trash to Archival and update the OP links.

[philipma1957]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I think that the poll should be open only to forum members. There is good chance it will be skewed now.

Guy

Guy that boat has long sailed.

Indeed. I find the actions of a specific forum member horrible and sad.
Update the OP.

This is what you should have done, IMHO:
Ask Theymos or the global mods to move the survey questions threads from trash to Archival and update the OP links.

Guy we are only human guess its why song's like Billy Joel's  'We didn't start the fire it was always burning"  become hits.

I posted what my fee would have been for this in the op.  I think I will ask you to donate it to wiki

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give#bitcoin

they take bitcoin.

https://www.coinbase.com/checkouts/44aa9355518928151be736fbd043236c  

As of now there are 11 votes in the poll.

[Guy Corem]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

[Guy Corem]

How about a google form: http://goo.gl/forms/sOFBGtgj32

I think that the poll should be open only to forum members. There is good chance it will be skewed now.

Guy

Guy that boat has long sailed.

Indeed. I find the actions of a specific forum member horrible and sad.
Update the OP.

This is what you should have done, IMHO:
Ask Theymos or the global mods to move the survey questions threads from trash to Archival and update the OP links.

Guy we are only human guess its why song's like Billy Joel's  'We didn't start the fire it was always burning"  become hits.

I posted what my fee would have been for this in the op.  I think I will ask you to donate it to wiki

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give#bitcoin

they take bitcoin.

https://www.coinbase.com/checkouts/44aa9355518928151be736fbd043236c  

I will donate when you'll ask me to. I'll PM you the TXID

[philipma1957]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

after 11 voters it seems okay.

@ guy it is wed we will keep pool running until monday.  we  will post it here  then ask biffa to close it.

At that time I will ask for your company to send the 2 btc to wiki.

[Guy Corem]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

after 11 voters it seems okay

It's late in China

[aurel57]

I voted #13
But in fairness I have only bought from two vendors on the list and ran only three different manufactures equipment. So I have to lean toward the equipment I know.

[Guy Corem]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

after 11 voters it seems okay.

@ guy it is wed we will keep pool running until monday.  we  will post it here  then ask biffa to close it.

At that time I will ask for your company to send the 2 btc to wiki.

Ok. I'm glad Zich took snapshot of the previous poll tough.

[Biffa]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

after 11 voters it seems okay.

@ guy it is wed we will keep pool running until monday.  we  will post it here  then ask biffa to close it.

At that time I will ask for your company to send the 2 btc to wiki.

Ok. I'm glad Zich took snapshot of the previous poll tough.

The previous ones on the forum didnt run long enough for other manufacturers customers to make an impact either. Plus the poll I put on gdrive isn't searchable on google, you have to have the URL to use it and the URL is only available here. I don't see much difference tbh other than the format is neater and you only need one form for all the questions.

But hey.. took me like 10 minutes to do and cost me zilch so if you don't want it then no problemo

[Guy Corem]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

after 11 voters it seems okay.

@ guy it is wed we will keep pool running until monday.  we  will post it here  then ask biffa to close it.

At that time I will ask for your company to send the 2 btc to wiki.

Ok. I'm glad Zich took snapshot of the previous poll tough.

The previous ones on the forum didnt run long enough for other manufacturers customers to make an impact either. Plus the poll I put on gdrive isn't searchable on google, you have to have the URL to use it and the URL is only available here. I don't see much difference tbh other than the format is neater and you only need one form for all the questions.

But hey.. took me like 10 minutes to do and cost me zilch so if you don't want it then no problemo

It's easy to do massive email campaign with the pole link, asking non customers to vote and skew the results.
Keep it. Let's see.

[Biffa]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

after 11 voters it seems okay.

@ guy it is wed we will keep pool running until monday.  we  will post it here  then ask biffa to close it.

At that time I will ask for your company to send the 2 btc to wiki.

Ok. I'm glad Zich took snapshot of the previous poll tough.

The previous ones on the forum didnt run long enough for other manufacturers customers to make an impact either. Plus the poll I put on gdrive isn't searchable on google, you have to have the URL to use it and the URL is only available here. I don't see much difference tbh other than the format is neater and you only need one form for all the questions.

But hey.. took me like 10 minutes to do and cost me zilch so if you don't want it then no problemo

It's easy to do massive email campaign with the pole link, asking non customers to vote and skew the results.
Keep it. Let's see.

Yes and the same thing could be said about the poll here, just have to sign up to the forum to vote.

[Guy Corem]

...
That gear was about 2 btc in value.
...

We'll donate 2 btc for a cause philipma1957 will choose.

On a side note, I believe that the current poll after the drama Dogie organized will be severely skewed.
Especially, since anyone with gmail account can vote now.

Guy

after 11 voters it seems okay.

@ guy it is wed we will keep pool running until monday.  we  will post it here  then ask biffa to close it.

At that time I will ask for your company to send the 2 btc to wiki.

Ok. I'm glad Zich took snapshot of the previous poll tough.

The previous ones on the forum didnt run long enough for other manufacturers customers to make an impact either. Plus the poll I put on gdrive isn't searchable on google, you have to have the URL to use it and the URL is only available here. I don't see much difference tbh other than the format is neater and you only need one form for all the questions.

But hey.. took me like 10 minutes to do and cost me zilch so if you don't want it then no problemo

It's easy to do massive email campaign with the pole link, asking non customers to vote and skew the results.
Keep it. Let's see.

Yes and the same thing could be said about the poll here, just have to sign up to the forum to vote.

One more hurdle to overcome.

[philipma1957]

I voted #13
But in fairness I have only bought from two vendors on the list and ran only three different manufactures equipment. So I have to lean toward the equipment I know.

yeah i was number 4 the voting  and on what will i buy next i put avalon.

is it because  i think they are better the sp20 or s-5 no it is because i don't own one and I am curious .

now if AM came out with its new lower watt gear tomorrow. i would end up buying it before the avalon.

is this because i like avalon or am better then sp-tech or bitmaintech no it is about what gear is best for my home mining setup.

right now only the sp20 can do this and give me 1100gh at .52 watts a gh

the photo below is the most important fact for me.
BTW if sp-tech makes an sp50 with the right numbers and i can side mount it in place of the six sp20's it would jump to next gear.  I am trying for current gear builders with stuff worth buying now.

[Meech]

Paid to advertise is ok in my book.  People that
follow the threads know the posters intent
but kudos for stating this in op.  Same thing as
running banner ads apply.  Thanks philipma1957.

[Zich]

It's just cross my mind that you can ask other member here who want to contribute like Biffa(or you can choose) to create poll here one poll per member. I believe it's will work 

[Biffa]

[Zich]

The graphical result is pretty 

[philipma1957]

  It has tracked just about the same each time I have looked.  SP-tech is number 1 and bitmaintech is number 2.

BTW dogie rated sp-tech over bitmaintech. Which is correct in my opinion for today Jan 28th 2015.

 I have been making pdf copies of it every 4 or 5 votes just to see if some one tries to poison or skew it off by doing a dozen false votes.

Personally I don't think anyone will bother to do that.

  If this poll was done in august when the sp30 came out sp-tech would not have fared as well.
 
 If this poll was done when the s-5's lowered the price down to 310 usd  bitmaintech would have fared better then they have done so far.

One of the reasons I agreed to do this was I wanted a current method of knowing what gear is hot.  A way for builders to be judged.

I did not really need the fee and it will be sent to wiki as they take btc donations.  Guy has told me will send it on monday.

I am looking to run this pool again in  early march say the 9th.  I may do it every 45 days or so. Biffa if you are willing to help in march let me know. I will show the survey from Jan 28th and may tweak it a bit. do the same thing again.

[Biffa]

^5!

[Guy Corem]

Nice graphs. I hope for more participants.

[philipma1957]

there are 35 voters on the new poll/survey created by biffa.

this roughly equals or exceeds the older poll counts.

The results are close to the same for the old polls or the new ones.

Sp-tech = number 1

Bitmaintech = number 2


all other companies are pretty far behind.

To me the polls favor sp-tech too much over bitmaintech  and for today it is pretty close say 88 to 84 in favor of  sp-tech over the bitmaintech.

Hmm 88 to 84 seems familiar.  Ahh lets do 92 to 84 sp-tech over bitmaintech.

The main thing is these are the number 1 and number 2 rated companies  by the forum voters not bitfury or avalon.

here they    they are 3 and 4 as picked by the forum voters .

BTW I don't think any asic company should be rated 100 as it would mean they are perfect and can't improve.

[Guy Corem]

...
BTW I don't think any asic company should be rated 100 as it would mean they are perfect and can't improve.

True. Every company has weaknesses. Ours is loud miners. For some reason the competitor decided to copy this feature

Seriously, if you're hinting to Dogie's guide, I don't care about the "100" score. I care about showing our company as "Mix" on pre-orders which is clearly false and causes customers to confuse. We're getting tens of emails per week with the same question: "Do you have equipment in hand" ?

Dogie keeps the ranking altough we're selling only from stock in the last 3 moths or so and I've publicly said, over and over again, that due to the high risk of the design, we won't take pre-orders on our next gens. I even explained to him, at length, our business plan and he still refuse to change it.

Guy

[aurel57]

Nice graphs. I hope for more participants.

Is it me or does this look like all the manufacturers are giving us the finger??

[Guy Corem]

Is it me or does this look like all the manufacturers are giving us the finger??

I waited for someone to make this observation. Not us !  

Edit, found the picture in another thread under Meta:

[dogie]

It's just cross my mind that you can ask other member here who want to contribute like Biffa(or you can choose) to create poll here one poll per member. I believe it's will work 

It'd still fall foul of the rules and suffer the same fate, because it'd be 5-8 topics on exactly the same thing. The current setup is good because its everything combined into one thread so voters don't have to wander about from thread to thread.

Its probably best to prevent users from seeing the results though, I don't know if they will create positive feedback bias.

[philipma1957]

It's just cross my mind that you can ask other member here who want to contribute like Biffa(or you can choose) to create poll here one poll per member. I believe it's will work  

It'd still fall foul of the rules and suffer the same fate, because it'd be 5-8 topics on exactly the same thing. The current setup is good because its everything combined into one thread so voters don't have to wander about from thread to thread.

Its probably best to prevent users from seeing the results though, I don't know if they will create positive feedback bias.

Thank you. I  will offer an Olive branch. The bigger picture for us all is seeing BTC  growing.

Not Sp-tech fighting with you or any of the infighting that happens on this site.

I did not want Biffa to show results early but when we reboot this in 40 days or so. We will hold results back.

Feel free to shoot me a pm with any questions we can add.  For all we know in 40 days. ASIC MINER aka Fried Cat may be selling a working well built 0.3 watt machine with 1.5 th using 500 watts and in that case they will be the winner in the survey.

[Guy Corem]

...
Not Sp-tech fighting with you or any of the infighting that happens on this site.
...

I consider Dogie a friend. Friends can have quarrels sometime.

Guy

[Biffa]

I think the opposite, people can see the results after they post their scores anyway and having a daily update of the results keeps any cries of foul play on behalf of the organisers to a minimum.

[dogie]

I think the opposite, people can see the results after they post their scores anyway and having a daily update of the results keeps any cries of foul play on behalf of the organisers to a minimum.

I still think that seeing results after may skew it a bit. Anyhoo, doesn't really matter now.

...
Not Sp-tech fighting with you or any of the infighting that happens on this site.
...

I consider Dogie a friend. Friends can have quarrels sometime.

Guy

I think we know which one philip is

[philipma1957]

Frankly I am the little guy looking at the camera saying wtf?

I think all of this started when I stumbled on the westhash-nicehash problem for GAW-ZEN.  The problem was on GAW-ZEN not westhash or nicehash

 That was  Back in August- Sept.

Somehow I manage to attract too much attention on this site.

I can blame all that on FriedCat and his tubes , but in the world of BTC

5 months ago is more like 50 years ago. so that story is old.

 I think I should consider taking a bit of a vacation from writing any posts.
I am renting my signature and have been paid to do so up front. Once that time has passed I may just read posts rather then write them.  I am too old to be playing around on the net on this forum or any other.

[Bicknellski]

Frankly I am the little guy looking at the camera saying wtf?

I think all of this started when I stumbled on the westhash-nicehash problem for GAW-ZEN.  The problem was on GAW-ZEN not westhash or nicehash

 That was  Back in August- Sept.

Somehow I manage to attract too much attention on this site.

I can blame all that on FriedCat and his tubes , but in the world of BTC

5 months ago is more like 50 years ago. so that story is old.

 I think I should consider taking a bit of a vacation from writing any posts.
I am renting my signature and have been paid to do so up front. Once that time has passed I may just read posts rather then write them.  I am too old to be playing around on the net on this forum or any other.

Meh... you should be posting and playing devils advocate more not less.

[Biffa]

Frankly I am the little guy looking at the camera saying wtf?

I think all of this started when I stumbled on the westhash-nicehash problem for GAW-ZEN.  The problem was on GAW-ZEN not westhash or nicehash

 That was  Back in August- Sept.

Somehow I manage to attract too much attention on this site.

I can blame all that on FriedCat and his tubes , but in the world of BTC

5 months ago is more like 50 years ago. so that story is old.

 I think I should consider taking a bit of a vacation from writing any posts.
I am renting my signature and have been paid to do so up front. Once that time has passed I may just read posts rather then write them.  I am too old to be playing around on the net on this forum or any other.

Meh... you should be posting and playing devils advocate more not less.

+1 except Philip is responsible for all the bad luck in the pools this week

[Guy Corem]

I think the opposite, people can see the results after they post their scores anyway and having a daily update of the results keeps any cries of foul play on behalf of the organisers to a minimum.

I still think that seeing results after may skew it a bit. Anyhoo, doesn't really matter now.

...
Not Sp-tech fighting with you or any of the infighting that happens on this site.
...

I consider Dogie a friend. Friends can have quarrels sometime.

Guy

I think we know which one philip is

[Biodom]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

[philipma1957]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Ahh this thread became somewhat of a mess.  Reminds me of my garage and my spare bedroom quite a mess.

There does not seem to be a perfect way to do a survey/poll such is life.

For now in terms of gear I have sp20's and s-5's .

I think I am going to buy an avalon4  I will ask dogie to help me set it up.

I would like to run a sound test a watts per gh test a gui test on it.  Possibly do a 3 way shoot out between the 3

 SP20
 S-5
 Avalon4   reminds me of Babylon 5  I liked that show.

[Guy Corem]

...
 Avalon4   reminds me of Babylon 5  I liked that show.

Me too.

[Guy Corem]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

You didn't follow our little drama happened yesterday. Read it here and in Meta.

[thomas_s]

...
 Avalon4   reminds me of Babylon 5  I liked that show.

Me too.

Me three

[Biodom]

It was a while back (babylon 5)...i kind of liked Farscape a bit more, but B5 was cool as well.

[Guy Corem]

It was a while back (babylon 5)...i kind of liked Farscape a bit more.

And Firefly

[Biodom]

It was a while back (babylon 5)...i kind of liked Farscape a bit more.

And Firefly

never seen that one, but Serenity was good (it seems to have the same characters/actors).

[Guy Corem]

It was a while back (babylon 5)...i kind of liked Farscape a bit more.

And Firefly

never seen that one, but Serenity was good (it seems to have the same characters/actors).

Indeed.

[dogie]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Surveymonkey is free for the first 100 responses and doesn't need a login. You'll also be able to limit people to voting by 1 per computer, IP etc in case there is any abuse.

[philipma1957]

It was a while back (babylon 5)...i kind of liked Farscape a bit more.

And Firefly

never seen that one, but Serenity was good (it seems to have the same characters/actors).

 
  
Really liked Serenity.  Will watch Firefly and Farscape on a netflix binge



@ dogie I will go to survey monkey and check it out 

[Biodom]

It was a while back (babylon 5)...i kind of liked Farscape a bit more.

And Firefly

never seen that one, but Serenity was good (it seems to have the same characters/actors).

 
  
Really liked Serenity.  Will watch Firefly and Farscape on a netflix binge



@ dogie I will go to survey monkey and check it out 

i am familiar with that (binge that is), watched all breaking bad in a week or two.

[Meech]

The times when the forums have little to none new posts of new hardware is the time that scares me the most.  Keep posting, keep driving these companies to produce.  They know they have no business without us.  There farms maybe but those are showing a down trend as well.  Too old to post I say nay. 

[thomas_s]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Surveymonkey is free for the first 100 responses and doesn't need a login. You'll also be able to limit people to voting by 1 per computer, IP etc in case there is any abuse.

I have one that only requires a webserver to run / take responses.

I've even made some questions but stopped seeing as there was a google form, if SP would like what I've done so far / to see it I would be happy to show them / give it to them.

Its a bit more detailed. If they send me a PM / email I'll show it to them and make changes if they request and finish it =)

[Guy Corem]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Surveymonkey is free for the first 100 responses and doesn't need a login. You'll also be able to limit people to voting by 1 per computer, IP etc in case there is any abuse.

I have one that only requires a webserver to run / take responses.

I've even made some questions but stopped seeing as there was a google form, if SP would like what I've done so far / to see it I would be happy to show them / give it to them.

Its a bit more detailed. If they send me a PM / email I'll show it to them and make changes if they request and finish it =)

It's Philip thread, he runs the show.

[aurel57]

Is it me or does this look like all the manufacturers are giving us the finger??

I waited for someone to make this observation. Not us !  

Edit, found the picture in another thread under Meta:

  Good one!

[philipma1957]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Surveymonkey is free for the first 100 responses and doesn't need a login. You'll also be able to limit people to voting by 1 per computer, IP etc in case there is any abuse.

I have one that only requires a webserver to run / take responses.

I've even made some questions but stopped seeing as there was a google form, if SP would like what I've done so far / to see it I would be happy to show them / give it to them.

Its a bit more detailed. If they send me a PM / email I'll show it to them and make changes if they request and finish it =)

It's Philip thread, he runs the show.

 I am looking to back off here. As I am a little dog.  I would like us to try to create a decent survey So thomas_s  shoot me a pm  and one to sp-tech. I will look at it. We can brainstorm it a bit. Since this is more of a joint effort. It will at least be some kind of effort to make a fair clear cut survey.

[Guy Corem]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Surveymonkey is free for the first 100 responses and doesn't need a login. You'll also be able to limit people to voting by 1 per computer, IP etc in case there is any abuse.

I have one that only requires a webserver to run / take responses.

I've even made some questions but stopped seeing as there was a google form, if SP would like what I've done so far / to see it I would be happy to show them / give it to them.

Its a bit more detailed. If they send me a PM / email I'll show it to them and make changes if they request and finish it =)

It's Philip thread, he runs the show.

 I am looking to back off here. As I am a little dog.  I would like us to try to create a decent survey So thomas_s  shoot me a pm  and one to sp-tech. I will look at it. We can brainstorm it a bit. Since this is more of a joint effort. It will at least be some kind of effort to make a fair clear cut survey.

I can't actively run a manufacturer survey.

[thomas_s]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Surveymonkey is free for the first 100 responses and doesn't need a login. You'll also be able to limit people to voting by 1 per computer, IP etc in case there is any abuse.

I have one that only requires a webserver to run / take responses.

I've even made some questions but stopped seeing as there was a google form, if SP would like what I've done so far / to see it I would be happy to show them / give it to them.

Its a bit more detailed. If they send me a PM / email I'll show it to them and make changes if they request and finish it =)

It's Philip thread, he runs the show.

 I am looking to back off here. As I am a little dog.  I would like us to try to create a decent survey So thomas_s  shoot me a pm  and one to sp-tech. I will look at it. We can brainstorm it a bit. Since this is more of a joint effort. It will at least be some kind of effort to make a fair clear cut survey.

I can't actively run a manufacturer survey.

Usually with research surveys / market research surveys the manufacturers only part in is to have some input on the questions / what they are looking to accomplish and the final report / stats of the results. The running, main creation and tabulation of results are done by an outside company.

[btcshiner]

It was a while back (babylon 5)...i kind of liked Farscape a bit more.

And Firefly

My daughter love's Firefly and Serenity

[dogie]

I voted when poll was here, so did the data transferred to google or we shall vote there again?
Google poll requires login with google credentials, not btctalk-this is kind of defeats the purpose.

yeah  if you do not have a gmail account you can't vote there.

Surveymonkey is free for the first 100 responses and doesn't need a login. You'll also be able to limit people to voting by 1 per computer, IP etc in case there is any abuse.

I have one that only requires a webserver to run / take responses.

I've even made some questions but stopped seeing as there was a google form, if SP would like what I've done so far / to see it I would be happy to show them / give it to them.

Its a bit more detailed. If they send me a PM / email I'll show it to them and make changes if they request and finish it =)

It's Philip thread, he runs the show.

 I am looking to back off here. As I am a little dog.  I would like us to try to create a decent survey So thomas_s  shoot me a pm  and one to sp-tech. I will look at it. We can brainstorm it a bit. Since this is more of a joint effort. It will at least be some kind of effort to make a fair clear cut survey.

I can't actively run a manufacturer survey.

Just curious, but what do you guys perceive as the benefit of running the surveys repeatedly? I doubt we're going to get enough people to be able to analyse across any meaningful shifts, especially when users have to choose just one company.

[pekatete]

Good idea here ... shame about the splattering of dog poo all over it!

[philipma1957]

This is the result of the poll created by biffa /myself/ and sponsored by  SP-tech



















full size here :


http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1091/J9oSGu.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img537/3012/dj1Gnk.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4917/t2bBoW.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img537/1126/GZRzMp.png

[Blazed]

I really like the idea of this, but would like to see some more depth to it. Maybe have a rating scale per company on each question? It is pretty obvious everyone knows SP-Tech and Bitmain are the only good sellers, but it would be cool to see who does what better.

[philipma1957]

I really like the idea of this, but would like to see some more depth to it. Maybe have a rating scale per company on each question? It is pretty obvious everyone knows SP-Tech and Bitmain are the only good sellers, but it would be cool to see who does what better.

yeah I kind of want to do a 3 way comparison of :

Sp20
S-5
Avalon4.1

price
shipping cost
watt to gh  on low
watt to gh  on med
watt to gh on fast
firmware quality
warranty
ease of setup
Sound levels
case quality
ease to mod it.

I have the sp20's on hand
I have a s-5 on hand
I am trying to get an avalon 4.1  for demo    so far I may be able to get one with a small discount

frankly I don't think a lot of people understand what the reviews take to do in terms of time.  Imageshack charges me for the photos. This thread started a small feud with people picking sides. Not that sure if the effort is worth it anymore.  

For example if I decide to review the  avalon 4.1 I will need to spend  about 1.6 coins( a discounted item)  minimum for a piece of gear I don't need. 

 I would do this basically just to determine 3 things how loud is it on eco mode ?
what is the real power use on eco mode ?
what does it take to set it up ?

Right now no one has shown clear easy photos or reviews of this on our site. To be fair there are 2 reviews on from dogie and one from valkir. Neither review answers those questions in an acceptable manner  so  why should do it when I  got  a shit load of grief for running this thread?




   Btc is in a funny spot right now and for the first time since I started in August of 2012 I have real doubts
due to the push towards data centers.


I can crunch numbers pretty well and I don't like what I see.  Kind of asking myself do I want to be in a game where asic builders push towards cloud mining  and the deals they offer are worse then me mining in house.  My rates are 16 cents in the summer  and 13 cents in the winter   Winter adjusts to 10 cents with heat savings.

 only lee's 500 s-5's hosted in china are cheap as my home in the winter.  he is sold out and his new deal is going to reflect bitmaintech's price rise to 370 a unit.

  When the two best real world things for me are coins drop to 170 usd or rise to 340 usd in the next week or two it has become discouraging.

[judypug1956]

Note this is philipma1957's second account

I really like the idea of this, but would like to see some more depth to it. Maybe have a rating scale per company on each question? It is pretty obvious everyone knows SP-Tech and Bitmain are the only good sellers, but it would be cool to see who does what better.

yeah I kind of want to do a 3 way comparison of :

Sp20
S-5
Avalon4.1

price
shipping cost
watt to gh  on low
watt to gh  on med
watt to gh on fast
firmware quality
warranty
ease of setup
Sound levels
case quality
ease to mod it.

I have the sp20's on hand
I have a s-5 on hand
I am trying to get an avalon 4.1  for demo    so far I may be able to get one with a small discount

frankly I don't think a lot of people understand what the reviews take to do in terms of time.  Imageshack charges me for the photos. This thread started a small feud with people picking sides. Not that sure if the effort is worth it anymore.  

For example if I decide to review the  avalon 4.1 I will need to spend  about 1.6 coins( a discounted item)  minimum for a piece of gear I don't need. 

 I would do this basically just to determine 3 things how loud is it on eco mode ?
what is the real power use on eco mode ?
what does it take to set it up ?

Right now no one has shown clear easy photos or reviews of this on our site. To be fair there are 2 reviews on from dogie and one from valkir. Neither review answers those questions in an acceptable manner  so  why should do it when I  got  a shit load of grief for running this thread?




   Btc is in a funny spot right now and for the first time since I started in August of 2012 I have real doubts
due to the push towards data centers.


I can crunch numbers pretty well and I don't like what I see.  Kind of asking myself do I want to be in a game where asic builders push towards cloud mining  and the deals they offer are worse then me mining in house.  My rates are 16 cents in the summer  and 13 cents in the winter   Winter adjusts to 10 cents with heat savings.

 only lee's 500 s-5's hosted in china are cheap as my home in the winter.  he is sold out and his new deal is going to reflect bitmaintech's price rise to 370 a unit.

  When the two best real world things for me are coins drop to 170 usd or rise to 340 usd in the next week or two it has become discouraging.

 Acceptable manner is a  sound meter with readings at the 3  speeds.
A kwatt meter showing watts at all settings and showing the miners hashrate.

I feel if you want this gear you should have clear evidence of what it can do.

If the avalon 4.1 can do 800 gh at 400 watts it is competitive   power use per gh.  .5 watts per gh .

 If it is really quiet with low sound it has an edge as an office machine. While it costs more then either the s-5 or sp20 picture it running quietly  out of site out of mind pulling 400 'free' watts in an office.

 Both the sp20 and the s-5 can't quite do this. But most likley I won't bother doing a review of it.
 

[notlist3d]

Thank you for doing poll.  Interesting results seems to be a pattern.  With polls on here then there showing same seems to have extra proof.

[philipma1957]

Thank you for doing poll.  Interesting results seems to be a pattern.  With polls on here then there showing same seems to have extra proof.

Well the poll results show current mind set of people mining at home right now.  there are 2 pieces of gear a lot of us use the s-5 or the sp20

these polls started right after bitmaintech raised price from 310 to 340 to 370 usd.  most of the time sp-tech had a stable price for the sp-20

Avalon 4.1 has not had much in the way of reivews So most every one will pick bitmaintech or spondoolies tech 1st or second.

with mixed results for third.

If this was done in august I believe  bitmaintech would have won..   This is the point of the entire  thread current results.

Does anyone care that KNC was like a  god in sept. oct. nov. of 2013.

Next month bitmaintech could come out with an s-6 that is truly great they would and should boost in the polling if they do this.

Considering that  there are 3 pieces of gear for a home miner to choose at the moment in the 600 watt 1200 gh area.  I never thought I would see the fights this caused.

  As this unfolded so poorly with groups picking sides it has shown me more and more to just mine  and not really put out anything at all.

[Bicknellski]

Thank you for doing poll.  Interesting results seems to be a pattern.  With polls on here then there showing same seems to have extra proof.

Well the poll results show current mind set of people mining at home right now.  there are 2 pieces of gear a lot of us use the s-5 or the sp20

these polls started right after bitmaintech raised price from 310 to 340 to 370 usd.  most of the time sp-tech had a stable price for the sp-20

Avalon 4.1 has not had much in the way of reivews So most every one will pick bitmaintech or spondoolies tech 1st or second.

with mixed results for third.

If this was done in august I believe  bitmaintech would have won..   This is the point of the entire  thread current results.

Does anyone care that KNC was like a  god in sept. oct. nov. of 2013.

Next month bitmaintech could come out with an s-6 that is truly great they would and should boost in the polling if they do this.

Considering that  there are 3 pieces of gear for a home miner to choose at the moment in the 600 watt 1200 gh area.  I never thought I would see the fights this caused.

  As this unfolded so poorly with groups picking sides it has shown me more and more to just mine  and not really put out anything at all.

Look at who made the poll an issue.

Basically any fanboi's for a specific fabricator at this stage has a reason other than home mining and profitability.

Suffice to say it is well known and has been for months that Spondoolies far exceeds the customer service and delivery of all other fabricators and will likely continue to do so. I would suggest that the commercial level they also far exceed in customer service and delivery as well. With a superior quality product I think Spondoolies will likely become the default equipment for cloud mining in 2015/6 for anyone besides the likes of BitFury, Bitmain, Asicminer or KnC.

[gallery2000]

How about:

1.  Which manufacturer has the prettiest women working for them? 
2.  Which  manufacturer has the sexiest women working for them?  Proof it with pictures.

[Guy Corem]

This is the result of the poll created by biffa /myself/ and sponsored by  SP-tech



















full size here :


http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1091/J9oSGu.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img537/3012/dj1Gnk.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4917/t2bBoW.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img537/1126/GZRzMp.png

When did Avalon got the spike?
To what cause should I contribute 2 BTC?

Guy

Edit:
It will be interesting to see how the results got changed everyday.

[philipma1957]

I will list the pdf shots of it later today. I took at least 7 of them over the course of the poll


wikimedia takes  bit coins.  Pretty neutral  site that has helped people learn about many things all over the world including bitcoin.

 I use wiki to explain to people why I like bitcoin.

This is a great reason for bitcoin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat



Coups, self-coups, and attempted coups since 1991:

1990s   
Mali (1991)c Lesotho (1991)c Soviet Union (1991) Haiti (1991)c Georgia (1991-1992)c Thailand (1992) Venezuela (1992) Peru (1992)‡ Sierra Leone (1992)c Algeria (1992) Guatemala (1993)‡ Azerbaijan (1993)c Russia (1993)‡ Burundi (1993) Nigeria (1993)c The Gambia (1994)c Lesotho (1994)‡ Azerbaijan (1995) Qatar (1995)c Burundi (1996)c Niger (1996)c Turkey (1997)c Lesotho (1998) Niger (1999)c Pakistan (1999)c Côte d'Ivoire (1999)c

2000s   
Fiji (2000)c Ecuador (2000)c Burundi (2001) Venezuela (2002) Central African Republic (2003) Philippines (2003) Chad (2004) Haiti (2004)c Equatorial Guinea (2004) Mauritania (2005)c Philippines (2006) Chad (2006) Thailand (2006)c Madagascar (2006) Fiji (2006)c Laos (2007) Philippines (2007) Turkey (2007) East Timor (2008) Mauritania (2008)c Guinea (2008)c Madagascar (2009)c Honduras (2009)c

2010s   
Niger (2010)c Guinea-Bissau (2010)c Ecuador (2010) Democratic Republic of the Congo (2011) Guinea-Bissau (2011) Mali (2012)c Guinea-Bissau (2012)c Central African Republic (2012–13) Egypt (2013)c Libya (2013) South Sudan (2013) Libya (2014) Thailand (2014)c Lesotho (2014) Burkina Faso (2014) Yemen (2014-15)




 Back to donations

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give

[Biffa]

I think it was good worthwhile survey and was glad to help out in my small way

My experience with surveys is that you can never please everyone.

My suggestion for a donation address would perhaps be to give 0.5 BTC to ckolivas for cgminers continuing development, the rest, I'm a bit of a fan of EFF https://supporters.eff.org/donate

But it's Phils baby and  I bow to his decision

[philipma1957]

I think it was good worthwhile survey and was glad to help out in my small way

My experience with surveys is that you can never please everyone.

My suggestion for a donation address would perhaps be to give 0.5 BTC to ckolivas for cgminers continuing development, the rest, I'm a bit of a fan of EFF https://supporters.eff.org/donate

But it's Phils baby and  I bow to his decision

I will stick with wiki.

 I know ckolivas should get some coin but that leaves out kano.
 Both of them have done a lot for BTC.
 I mine at their pools and have decided that is the best way to support them.
 I will link their  2 pools  as my thoughts are all of us should point some hashpower to these two pools

http://www.kano.is/index.php
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.0


http://solo.ckpool.org/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=763510.0

[Biffa]

No worries mate, your choice of course.

Just wanted to add thanks for doing this. Takes some guts and you don't deserve the flak you got because of it. Hope it doesn't put you off contributing in the future.

[philipma1957]

No worries mate, your choice of course.

Just wanted to add thanks for doing this. Takes some guts and you don't deserve the flak you got because of it. Hope it doesn't put you off contributing in the future.

Ahh I don't know>  I like posting on forums always have liked doing it.

macrumors
123macmini
parts-express
anandtech

all have been posted to by me with  more then 1000 posts.

This forum is a bit different as btc and digital coins  are a possible money maker with a lot of upside.  I  think this  causes a lot more tension with the posters here.

For example gaw-zen-paycoin as of today a few millions of dollars have been lost to them due to the crash of paycoin. Others made money due to them. This causes a lot of anger and stress among members.  

I will do the shots of the poll as it progressed.  Then close this thread.

[Mabsark]

I can't believe AM did so bad in the caring for customers departments. They may have shitty customer service but they clearly care about their customers as evidenced by the Prisma buy back program. In my book that puts them straight to the top of that list. If there was a profitability question, it would probably also put the Prisma straight to the top of that list too.

[dogie]

For example if I decide to review the  avalon 4.1 I will need to spend  about 1.6 coins( a discounted item)  minimum for a piece of gear I don't need. 

 I would do this basically just to determine 3 things how loud is it on eco mode ?
what is the real power use on eco mode ?
what does it take to set it up ?

Right now no one has shown clear easy photos or reviews of this on our site. To be fair there are 2 reviews on from dogie and one from valkir. Neither review answers those questions in an acceptable manner  so  why should do it when I  got  a shit load of grief for running this thread?

A user gave you eco mode results power consumption, it is comparatively silent at normal clocks anyway [1600rpm]. My guide shows exactly the setup steps, that's the point of it. I have 6K photos.

[Swimmer63]

I really like the idea of this, but would like to see some more depth to it. Maybe have a rating scale per company on each question? It is pretty obvious everyone knows SP-Tech and Bitmain are the only good sellers, but it would be cool to see who does what better.

 only lee's 500 s-5's hosted in china are cheap as my home in the winter.  he is sold out and his new deal is going to reflect bitmaintech's price rise to 370 a unit.

There are at least three hosting locations in Washington state that charge between 7.5 and 8.5 cents per kwh.  That's the only way I'm in it right now.

[Guy Corem]

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give

Philip, thank you for running the poll.
2 BTCs were donated to Wilkimedia foundation, I've PM you the transaction details.

Guy

[Blazed]

I can't believe AM did so bad in the caring for customers departments. They may have shitty customer service but they clearly care about their customers as evidenced by the Prisma buy back program. In my book that puts them straight to the top of that list. If there was a profitability question, it would probably also put the Prisma straight to the top of that list too.

I know you are a fan of AM, but lets be serious.  They did eventually buy them back after months of us bitching and dealing with some fires. During the months we waited we got 0 responses from them...plus they were late in shipping with no updates. Many people like myself were shipped non working controllers or controllers that could only do 1 pool? The lack of quality and support was pathetic.

Edit: I will agree they did the right thing and all, but the experience left me with a bad taste in my dealing with AM. I even gave them the benefit of the doubt when I was shipped a dead Tube and tried a Prisma a couple months later. With companies like Bitmain and SP-Tech shipping higher quality gear and being responsive...who would want AM gear again?

[philipma1957]

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give

Philip, thank you for running the poll.
2 BTCs were donated to Wilkimedia foundation, I've PM you the transaction details.

Guy

To confirm  guy did donate 2btc to wiki today.





full size

http://imageshack.com/a/img908/1702/4kJmIZ.png

[Guy Corem]

I will list the pdf shots of it later today. I took at least 7 of them over the course of the poll
...

It will be interesting to know when Avalon got the spike. My guess looking at the participants graph, is 2 days ago.
It seems like the only deliberate skewing attempt.

[dogie]

I will list the pdf shots of it later today. I took at least 7 of them over the course of the poll
...

It will be interesting to know when Avalon got the spike. My guess looking at the participants graph, is 2 days ago.
It seems like the only deliberate skewing attempt.

That's a bit tin foil. Maybe all those spondoolies votes were fake or spondoolies employees eh? It is an inherent problem with surveys though, people only want to believe in results that validate their own opinions.

[philipma1957]

I will list the pdf shots of it later today. I took at least 7 of them over the course of the poll
...

It will be interesting to know when Avalon got the spike. My guess looking at the participants graph, is 2 days ago.
It seems like the only deliberate skewing attempt.

I am going over the tracking now.  first set was at 6 votes.






full size

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/7151/mgq7aK.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/9631/aayVHY.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/3376/EgIxz1.png

[Guy Corem]

I will list the pdf shots of it later today. I took at least 7 of them over the course of the poll
...

It will be interesting to know when Avalon got the spike. My guess looking at the participants graph, is 2 days ago.
It seems like the only deliberate skewing attempt.

That's a bit tin foil. Maybe all those spondoolies votes were fake or spondoolies employees eh? It is an inherent problem with surveys though, people only want to believe in results that validate their own opinions.

No, we didn't skew as was demonstrated from the first poll you killed.
Let's wait for Philip posts and see the development.

[philipma1957]

I have shots on every day but sunday. As it  was superbowl sunday.

here is the last set of shots on  Saturday 43  then monday was 58 so those last 15 votes were heavy on avalon

 43 votes were in only 1 vote on Saturday  1 vote on Friday. Most likely many in the sp-tech bitmaintech camps voted by then.    first days got a lot of votes. 28 then 7

 I got busy on Sunday and a lot of votes were cast for  avalon on sunday during the superbowl to be fair. someone noticed  the thread and answered avalon a lot more in the end.  but if you notice the first day had 28 votes the second day had 7 my guess is no one from avalon noticed this poll we only have two  threads with current avalon info.  once people saw it avalon got some votes.  they have a very quiet piece of gear in the avalon 4 and it can run at very efficient power rates . if it runs on lowest setting.









full
size

http://imageshack.com/a/img907/8527/H7CVkQ.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/2729/hWj2cY.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img909/8476/suJTgl.png

[Guy Corem]

I have shots on every day but sunday. As it  was superbowl sunday.

here is the last set of shots on  Saturday 43  then monday was 58 so those last 15 votes were heavy on avalon

 43 votes were in only 1 vote on Saturday  1 vote on Friday. Most likely many in the sp-tech bitmaintech camps voted by then.    first days got a lot of votes. 28 then 7

 I got busy on Sunday and a lot of votes were cast for  avalon on sunday during the superbowl to be fair. someone noticed  the thread and answered avalon a lot more in the end.  but if you notice the first day had 28 votes the second day had 7 my guess is no one from avalon noticed this poll we only have two  threads with current avalon info.  once people saw it avalon got some votes.  they have a very quiet piece of gear in the avalon 4 and it can run at very efficient power rates . if it runs on lowest setting.









full
size

http://imageshack.com/a/img907/8527/H7CVkQ.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img673/2729/hWj2cY.png
http://imageshack.com/a/img909/8476/suJTgl.png

QED

[Mabsark]

I know you are a fan of AM, but lets be serious.  They did eventually buy them back after months of us bitching and dealing with some fires. During the months we waited we got 0 responses from them...plus they were late in shipping with no updates. Many people like myself were shipped non working controllers or controllers that could only do 1 pool? The lack of quality and support was pathetic.

Edit: I will agree they did the right thing and all, but the experience left me with a bad taste in my dealing with AM. I even gave them the benefit of the doubt when I was shipped a dead Tube and tried a Prisma a couple months later. With companies like Bitmain and SP-Tech shipping higher quality gear and being responsive...who would want AM gear again?

Like I said, they have crappy customer service but the question wasn't about customer service or any of the other issues you mentioned. The question I'm talking about was who "cares most about its customers". AM fucked up big time with the Prismas but they cared that much about accidentally screwing over their customers that they bought them back for the original price paid for them, despite months of mining on them. Would Spondoolies or Bitmain do that? Spondoolies wouldn't even give their customers fair compensation when their pre-orders didn't live up to expectations and the initial price of the SP20 was a total ripoff. Like I said, AM is clearly at the top of the list when it comes to "caring for their customers".

As for who would want AM gear again, the answer to that is pretty much everybody interested in making a profit. If AM put out a non-problematic 0.2-0.4 J/Gh miner next month at a good price, you'd have to be a major fanboy to chose an SP20 or S5 instead.

As proven by your comment, the answers to this poll are not based on facts or logic but emotions. This whole ordeal was flawed to begin with and damn shady from Guy, especially coming not long after that review spam. And then there was the spreading of lies in other manufacturers threads a few months back. For example, in the AM thread, he posted that he "knew" that FC was selling chips at cost which FC denied. Guy is good at providing customer service for Spondoolies but I reckon his actions on this forum have been a bit shady so far.

[philipma1957]

I know you are a fan of AM, but lets be serious.  They did eventually buy them back after months of us bitching and dealing with some fires. During the months we waited we got 0 responses from them...plus they were late in shipping with no updates. Many people like myself were shipped non working controllers or controllers that could only do 1 pool? The lack of quality and support was pathetic.

Edit: I will agree they did the right thing and all, but the experience left me with a bad taste in my dealing with AM. I even gave them the benefit of the doubt when I was shipped a dead Tube and tried a Prisma a couple months later. With companies like Bitmain and SP-Tech shipping higher quality gear and being responsive...who would want AM gear again?

Like I said, they have crappy customer service but the question wasn't about customer service or any of the other issues you mentioned. The question I'm talking about was who "cares most about its customers". AM fucked up big time with the Prismas but they cared that much about accidentally screwing over their customers that they bought them back for the original price paid for them, despite months of mining on them. Would Spondoolies or Bitmain do that? Spondoolies wouldn't even give their customers fair compensation when their pre-orders didn't live up to expectations and the initial price of the SP20 was a total ripoff. Like I said, AM is clearly at the top of the list when it comes to "caring for their customers".

As for who would want AM gear again, the answer to that is pretty much everybody interested in making a profit. If AM put out a non-problematic 0.2-0.4 J/Gh miner next month at a good price, you'd have to be a major fanboy to chose an SP20 of S5 instead.

As proven by your comment, the answers to this poll are not based on facts or logic but emotions. This whole ordeal was flawed to begin with and damn shady from Guy, especially coming not long after that review spam. And then there was the spreading of lies in other manufacturers threads a few months back. For example, in the AM thread, he posted that he "knew" that FC was selling chips at cost which FC denied. Guy is good at providing customer service for Spondoolies but I reckon his actions on this forum have been a bit shady so far.

 I agree with you on the bolded quote,but Asic miner gear has had problems more then 1 time..

the cubes burned look at the last batch sold by crazy guy and canary in the mine
the 49 port hub burned I know I had one melt its fuse on me.
the prismas burned.

By burned I mean more then a few. 

[Blazed]

I know you are a fan of AM, but lets be serious.  They did eventually buy them back after months of us bitching and dealing with some fires. During the months we waited we got 0 responses from them...plus they were late in shipping with no updates. Many people like myself were shipped non working controllers or controllers that could only do 1 pool? The lack of quality and support was pathetic.

Edit: I will agree they did the right thing and all, but the experience left me with a bad taste in my dealing with AM. I even gave them the benefit of the doubt when I was shipped a dead Tube and tried a Prisma a couple months later. With companies like Bitmain and SP-Tech shipping higher quality gear and being responsive...who would want AM gear again?

Like I said, they have crappy customer service but the question wasn't about customer service or any of the other issues you mentioned. The question I'm talking about was who "cares most about its customers". AM fucked up big time with the Prismas but they cared that much about accidentally screwing over their customers that they bought them back for the original price paid for them, despite months of mining on them. Would Spondoolies or Bitmain do that? Spondoolies wouldn't even give their customers fair compensation when their pre-orders didn't live up to expectations and the initial price of the SP20 was a total ripoff. Like I said, AM is clearly at the top of the list when it comes to "caring for their customers".

As for who would want AM gear again, the answer to that is pretty much everybody interested in making a profit. If AM put out a non-problematic 0.2-0.4 J/Gh miner next month at a good price, you'd have to be a major fanboy to chose an SP20 of S5 instead.

As proven by your comment, the answers to this poll are not based on facts or logic but emotions. This whole ordeal was flawed to begin with and damn shady from Guy, especially coming not long after that review spam. And then there was the spreading of lies in other manufacturers threads a few months back. For example, in the AM thread, he posted that he "knew" that FC was selling chips at cost which FC denied. Guy is good at providing customer service for Spondoolies but I reckon his actions on this forum have been a bit shady so far.

Bitmain and SP care more as they wouldn't have been in that situation. Those 2 companies would have fixed the issues in days not months. Also we will see if AM can release decent gear next time around...I have my doubts. If they can actually make a decent miner I would be willing to buy one used and known good.

[Mabsark]

Those 2 companies would have fixed the issues in days not months.

I doubt it. Each miner needed thorough testing which would mean letting it run for a good amount of time. When you've got thousands of miners to test, it's obviously going to take a while.

[RoadStress]

Those 2 companies would have fixed the issues in days not months.

I doubt it. Each miner needed thorough testing which would mean letting it run for a good amount of time. When you've got thousands of miners to test, it's obviously going to take a while.

Each individual miner? Sounds a bit rough. Maybe the design is the one that should be tested and not the individual miner.

[Blazed]

Those 2 companies would have fixed the issues in days not months.

I doubt it. Each miner needed thorough testing which would mean letting it run for a good amount of time. When you've got thousands of miners to test, it's obviously going to take a while.

I am not out to get AM or anything, but I am always buying gear and hashing it (have for years). I have seen first hand that they lack any real quality control and their gear is much lower quality than that of Bitmain and SP-Tech. I would love to see them make a good miner to help drive prices of all gear down some more, but they need to fix a few issues. AM needs to make a decent controller and check the stuff before it ships. So many people had DOA boards...a few is understandable, but from what others were posting it was lots.

[RoadStress]

I am not out to get AM or anything, but I am always buying gear and hashing it (have for years). I have seen first hand that they lack any real quality control and their gear is much lower quality than that of Bitmain and SP-Tech. I would love to see them make a good miner to help drive prices of all gear down some more, but they need to fix a few issues. AM needs to make a decent controller and check the stuff before it ships. So many people had DOA boards...a few is understandable, but from what others were posting it was lots.

It's very hard to drive down the prices by a lot at this point. I think that we have approached the fixed costs limit and that in order to drive the price down you need to increase the hashing density.

[philipma1957]

actually we don't need any more gear at the moment.  we need btc price to rise.

[Finksy]

I like that AM always puts their miners out at the right price the first time. If only their gear met the stated performance consistently, and they didn't have such a high % of failures compared to SP or BMT.  Spondoolies has impressed the hell out of me with the SP20, if  they can keep their price competitive on initial releases of next gen equipment, they will be the big kid on the block. Their product, communication and service is second to none. I don't even recognize Bitmain anymore these days, I remember when their gear could be bought blindfolded on every release because their value couldn't be beat.  But raising their prices on the S5 recently is just another bad move in what seems to be becoming a trend.

[huffdaddy5]

Alot of whiners on here. How about we add another question. Which bitcoin miner manufacturer is named Bitmain? You know because we don't want to be biased. SMH. I could care less about the past. Spondoolies is currently the best all around manufacturer. No need for questionnaires. I own both Bitmain and Spondoolies equipment, and from hardware to software, Spondoolies has a better product.

[Bicknellski]

actually we don't need any more gear at the moment.  we need btc price to rise.

1. Price rises to make mining profitable... larger farms stay online and ramp up with more efficient units.
2. Prices of miners will never be low enough for a home miner to compete.
3. Race to ZERO $$$ electrical cost is where you will make headway in this commercial mining race now.

@huff... you are so correct sir!

SPTech has been cleaning the floor with the competition on a number of areas I would really love to see their commercial customer list with how many units have been sold. I am pretty sure that be impressive.

[philipma1957]

actually we don't need any more gear at the moment.  we need btc price to rise.

1. Price rises to make mining profitable... larger farms stay online and ramp up with more efficient units.
2. Prices of miners will never be low enough for a home miner to compete.
3. Race to ZERO $$$ electrical cost is where you will make headway in this commercial mining race now.

@huff... you are so correct sir!

SPTech has been cleaning the floor with the competition on a number of areas I would really love to see their commercial customer list with how many units have been sold. I am pretty sure that be impressive.

 A bold statement deserves bolding. I am still turning a small profit,but I think this will end in May or June this year.  Many people feel exactly like you do and it continues to trend in this direction.


Now I have been talking in PM's with avalon 4 builders and I will be getting 1 to test and review.  So some personal benefit to me has occurred due to this thread.

I will make a thread on their  gear  early next week. Shout out to Xiangfu  of canaan-creative thank you.  And I want to show that the  Avalon 4 has a spot for the home miner.

 I have been told it is very quiet and that on low mode it can get 800 gh with 400 watts or possibly  500 gh with 250 watts.  

Many 'home' miners have free power  and not the " I am robbing my boss free power".  They have a noise + watts limit/restriction ie the boss lets them use an electrical space heater. So why not use a quiet miner instead.  I see the day where almost no one has this type of heater to help heat the home



http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-EW7707CM-Safeheat-ComforTemp-Oil-Filled/dp/B000TGDGLU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423059354&sr=8-1&keywords=electric+radiator


       I run 2 s-3's at my friends office he has discounted power of 2.4 cents.  His office is cold in the winter lack of heat  and cold in the summer too much AC.
   The 2 s-3's are clocked to freq 312 and are being used as space heaters. He used to have a space heater now he has s-3's .  I promised his secretary I would put one in her place by her desk.  The avalon 4 should be perfect.

   I live in New Jersey we have 2 senior citizen housing spots built in the 70's both are about 10 miles from me.  There are 1000 homes in those two spots every one uses baseboard electrical heat. Simple radiators very costly I believe the avalon 4 is perfect for them.  Now we know a lot of seniors don't have any pc skills but quite a few do. I am really going to try to see if the avalon 4 can be promoted as a space heater for those with baseboard electrical radiator heating.
  Both the s-5 and the sp20 are not quite right for this application I think the avalon 4 is the exact item needed to do this.  I see this as a real growth spot for home mining. Stay tuned for the new thread on this miner.

[judypug1956]

...

  I see the day where almost no one has this type of heater to help heat the home



http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-EW7707CM-Safeheat-ComforTemp-Oil-Filled/dp/B000TGDGLU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423059354&sr=8-1&keywords=electric+radiator


       I run 2 s-3's at my friends office he has discounted power of 2.4 cents.  His office is cold in the winter lack of heat  and cold in the summer too much AC.
   The 2 s-3's are clocked to freq 312 and are being used as space heaters. He used to have a space heater now he has s-3's .  I promised his secretary I would put one in her place by her desk.  The avalon 4 should be perfect.

   I live in New Jersey we have 2 senior citizen housing spots built in the 70's both are about 10 miles from me.  There are 1000 homes in those two spots every one uses baseboard electrical heat. Simple radiators very costly I believe the avalon 4 is perfect for them.  Now we know a lot of seniors don't have any pc skills but quite a few do. I am really going to try to see if the avalon 4 can be promoted as a space heater for those with baseboard electrical radiator heating.
  Both the s-5 and the sp20 are not quite right for this application I think the avalon 4 is the exact item needed to do this.  I see this as a real growth spot for home mining. Stay tuned for the new thread on this miner.

  If home mining has growth to come it could be this way.
The radiator  at amazon is 60 bucks.
The avalon 4 is 400 usd.  If it is really quiet  1 winter would capture a lot of the price difference. It may be a viable idea.

[Bicknellski]

Don't buy Avalon... just a simple mantra.

[mavericklm]

Don't buy Avalon... just a simple mantra.

Why is that?

I'm about to buy a piece to put it beween sp20 and s3+(maybe s5 soon)

[philipma1957]

I am going to review the avalon 4.

 I know that more then 1 year ago more like 2 years ago they were slow to ship out gear, but two years ago is a long time in the world of btc.

[Bicknellski]

Don't buy Avalon... just a simple mantra.

Why is that?

I'm about to buy a piece to put it beween sp20 and s3+(maybe s5 soon)

Ethically this company is one that people should avoid given they cost consumers millions in lost revenue with their chip fiasco.

[philipma1957]

Don't buy Avalon... just a simple mantra.

Why is that?

I'm about to buy a piece to put it beween sp20 and s3+(maybe s5 soon)

Ethically this company is one that people should avoid given they cost consumers millions in lost revenue with their chip fiasco.

 This piece of gear I get will be the first one I ever had from them.

Most every builder has had fuckups.

Asic Miner -------------The prisma
Bitmaintech -----------The first s-2's
Sp-Tech ----------------The sp30

Reading the forums some felt they got the correct  fixes some say no.

[Guy Corem]

Don't buy Avalon... just a simple mantra.

Why is that?

I'm about to buy a piece to put it beween sp20 and s3+(maybe s5 soon)

Ethically this company is one that people should avoid given they cost consumers millions in lost revenue with their chip fiasco.

 This piece of gear I get will be the first one I ever had from them.

Most every builder has had fuckups.

Asic Miner -------------The prisma
Bitmaintech -----------The first s-2's
Sp-Tech ----------------The sp30

Reading the forums some felt they got the correct  fixes some say no.

We refunded for the spec miss.
(BMT had an issue with PSUs on the first batches of the S4 as well)

[Mabsark]

We refunded for the spec miss.
(BMT had an issue with PSUs on the first batches of the S4 as well)

From what I remember, there was a lot of fuss about the compensation not being adequate.

Also, the SP20s initially had a problem with boards coming loose during shipping because they wasn't secured properly. Like Philip said, everyone has had some form of issues.

[Guy Corem]

...
Also, the SP20s initially had a problem with boards coming loose during shipping because they wasn't secured properly.
...

Correct. We refunded for the delay and RMA defective SP20.

[Blazed]

...
Also, the SP20s initially had a problem with boards coming loose during shipping because they wasn't secured properly.
...

Correct. We refunded for the delay and RMA defective SP20.

Also SP responded immediately not after 2 months of being ignored.

[Bicknellski]

Don't buy Avalon... just a simple mantra.

Why is that?

I'm about to buy a piece to put it beween sp20 and s3+(maybe s5 soon)

Ethically this company is one that people should avoid given they cost consumers millions in lost revenue with their chip fiasco.

 This piece of gear I get will be the first one I ever had from them.

Most every builder has had fuckups.

Asic Miner -------------The prisma
Bitmaintech -----------The first s-2's
Sp-Tech ----------------The sp30

Reading the forums some felt they got the correct  fixes some say no.

No point to buying an Avalon given it is less efficient than competition and you will heavily mod it to meet your local needs. Just get an SP20 or S5 or next offering and do the same. Why support this company that price gouged and lost our community a fair number of good open source hardware teams?  Perplexing.

[Unacceptable]

I can't make any miner work at my power costs, .13 kwh 

How the hell are you guys making it work,I see 12-16 month ROI after power costs    If the diff stays around 50 billion................

[philipma1957]

I can't make any miner work at my power costs, .13 kwh 

How the hell are you guys making it work,I see 12-16 month ROI after power costs    If the diff stays around 50 billion................

I am able to use the heat from my miners to help keep the home warm in the winter.  thus my 13 cent power drops to 9.5 or 10 cents.

I will have to sell all my miners int early May.

I also host 2 here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934581.0;all

I may expand to 3 or 4 soon.  I will keep these for a while longer.

[valkir]

If you guys want to try the Avalon4 let me know, I got small discount.

Cheer

Valkir 

[dogie]

Don't buy Avalon... just a simple mantra.

Why is that?

I'm about to buy a piece to put it beween sp20 and s3+(maybe s5 soon)

Ethically this company is one that people should avoid given they cost consumers millions in lost revenue with their chip fiasco.

 This piece of gear I get will be the first one I ever had from them.

Most every builder has had fuckups.

Asic Miner -------------The prisma
Bitmaintech -----------The first s-2's
Sp-Tech ----------------The sp30

Reading the forums some felt they got the correct  fixes some say no.

No point to buying an Avalon given it is less efficient than competition and you will heavily mod it to meet your local needs. Just get an SP20 or S5 or next offering and do the same. Why support this company that price gouged and lost our community a fair number of good open source hardware teams?  Perplexing.

Eh? The Avalon4 is the one miner out of the S5 + SP20 + Avalon4 trifecta that DOESN'T require modding to run at home. Both others often require intervention to get them quiet enough to run at home while the Avalon4 is infinitely quieter.

[Blazed]

The Avalon is too pricey and requires a controller..silent is nice and all, but 0 chance to make any profit.  Also they did sorta screw the mining community really bad...

[dogie]

The Avalon is too pricey and requires a controller..silent is nice and all, but 0 chance to make any profit.  Also they did sorta screw the mining community really bad...

We've been though this, Canaan Creative is NOT Avalon. CC has sold out of hand only for about 16 months now.

[Xian01]

We've been though this, Canaan Creative is NOT Avalon.

Avalon renamed themselves to Canaan Creative after their Gen 1 shit-storm.

Irrespective of history, the current Avalon products are not price/performance competitive, at all, with SPTech or Bitmain.

[Finksy]

If people were strictly concerned with the ideology of home mining and not ROI'ing, they would just buy a dozen or less Bitmain U3's or a couple old S3's to underclock and get that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Doesn't change the fact that it makes no more sense than buying an Avalon 4 though.   Surely the U3's/S3's would be quiet too, and you would lose less of your money. Avalon project/Canaan missed the boat with this one, it was clear to see all the way back in the fall (too little too late).




PS Has anyone buying these even run models?  Even with 0% difficulty increase, $0.05/KWh and $300/BTC price (all quite unrealistic atm except maybe power cost), they would take over 200 days to ROI.  Give your head a shake people.  Anyone that is promoting these quite obviously has something to gain, and it's not your hand in friendship  .

[philipma1957]

 The sp20 is great gear I have 9 of them.  It is too loud .

The S-5 needs lots of mods to be quiet.

The avalon4 in theory  is quieter  and needs no mods to run  as a space heater just set it to 400 watts and 800 gh.

   If it can do this then it has a spot on the table of home miners.  I am still waiting for the test model to reach me.
  I will do a comparison to the two current models sp20 and s-5.  Give my opinion if it is viable as a space heater replacement.
I am pretty much independent user and miner of gear for Bitcoin. I never used avalon  to be fair I want demo this gear as I see a spot for it.

[Bicknellski]

We've been though this, Canaan Creative is NOT Avalon.

Avalon renamed themselves to Canaan Creative after their Gen 1 shit-storm.

Irrespective of history, the current Avalon products are not price/performance competitive, at all, with SPTech or Bitmain.

Call it pudding when it is actually dogshit doesn't make it pudding.

As everyone is pointing out. Avalon is not the units you are looking for.

[valkir]

If people were strictly concerned with the ideology of home mining and not ROI'ing, they would just buy a dozen or less Bitmain U3's or a couple old S3's to underclock and get that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Doesn't change the fact that it makes no more sense than buying an Avalon 4 though.   Surely the U3's/S3's would be quiet too, and you would lose less of your money. Avalon project/Canaan missed the boat with this one, it was clear to see all the way back in the fall (too little too late).




PS Has anyone buying these even run models?  Even with 0% difficulty increase, $0.05/KWh and $300/BTC price (all quite unrealistic atm except maybe power cost), they would take over 200 days to ROI.  Give your head a shake people.  Anyone that is promoting these quite obviously has something to gain, and it's not your hand in friendship  .

I got a S5, 2 S1, I had mutiple usb miner and now I got a Avalon4. We try to make the best evaluation of all miners.
The S5 is lound as hell but with modification you can reach something nice.

I have my miners in my livingroom so I need something quiet. Right now, the Avalon4 is really quit. I also mine on solar power and I mine to be part of the bitcoin system not to get rich. If I can do money over it well good.

I do agree that the Avalon4 is right now not cheap but its a good miner for home miners that dont want to modify anything.

Cheer

Valkir 

[Bicknellski]

What about attempting to rate the current manufacturers?

Perspective and on topic.

Avalon is not the company you want to do any deals with given their history.

There are better companies. Better prices and better equipment out there.

Given that you can't make anything mining at home why bother?

Seriously if you are doing it for a hobby put some coins into a company that hasn't basically killed a whole swath of open hardware designers single handedly like Avalon.

There is a reason to avoid them make the right choice.

If people were strictly concerned with the ideology of home mining and not ROI'ing, they would just buy a dozen or less Bitmain U3's or a couple old S3's to underclock and get that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Doesn't change the fact that it makes no more sense than buying an Avalon 4 though.  Surely the U3's/S3's would be quiet too, and you would lose less of your money. Avalon project/Canaan missed the boat with this one, it was clear to see all the way back in the fall (too little too late).




PS Has anyone buying these even run models?  Even with 0% difficulty increase, $0.05/KWh and $300/BTC price (all quite unrealistic atm except maybe power cost), they would take over 200 days to ROI.  Give your head a shake people.  Anyone that is promoting these quite obviously has something to gain, and it's not your hand in friendship  .

I got a S5, 2 S1, I had mutiple usb miner and now I got a Avalon4. We try to make the best evaluation of all miners.
The S5 is lound as hell but with modification you can reach something nice.

I have my miners in my livingroom so I need something quiet. Right now, the Avalon4 is really quit. I also mine on solar power and I mine to be part of the bitcoin system not to get rich. If I can do money over it well good.

I do agree that the Avalon4 is right now not cheap but its a good miner for home miners that dont want to modify anything.

Cheer

Valkir  

[philipma1957]

What about attempting to rate the current manufacturers?


_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________

Perspective and on topic.  I can't rate them without a demo of gear.

I did sp20------------------------ I paid for the review model and did that thread on my own I paid more then 700 use for it
 
I did prisma --------------------mostly on crazy guy's thread I paid for the review model returned it once fire danger was found out


I did s-5------------------------ A free review model

Avalon 4 ----------------------- A free review model still waiting.

_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________


Avalon is not the company you want to do any deals with given their history.

There are better companies. Better prices and better equipment out there.

Given that you can't make anything mining at home why bother?

Seriously if you are doing it for a hobby put some coins into a company that hasn't basically killed a whole swath of open hardware designers single handedly like Avalon.

There is a reason to avoid them make the right choice.

If people were strictly concerned with the ideology of home mining and not ROI'ing, they would just buy a dozen or less Bitmain U3's or a couple old S3's to underclock and get that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Doesn't change the fact that it makes no more sense than buying an Avalon 4 though.  Surely the U3's/S3's would be quiet too, and you would lose less of your money. Avalon project/Canaan missed the boat with this one, it was clear to see all the way back in the fall (too little too late).




PS Has anyone buying these even run models?  Even with 0% difficulty increase, $0.05/KWh and $300/BTC price (all quite unrealistic atm except maybe power cost), they would take over 200 days to ROI.  Give your head a shake people.  Anyone that is promoting these quite obviously has something to gain, and it's not your hand in friendship  .

I got a S5, 2 S1, I had mutiple usb miner and now I got a Avalon4. We try to make the best evaluation of all miners.
The S5 is lound as hell but with modification you can reach something nice.

I have my miners in my livingroom so I need something quiet. Right now, the Avalon4 is really quit. I also mine on solar power and I mine to be part of the bitcoin system not to get rich. If I can do money over it well good.

I do agree that the Avalon4 is right now not cheap but its a good miner for home miners that dont want to modify anything.

Cheer

Valkir  

I am going to close this particular thread off once I get the avalon 4.

 I do not want to say Much more about avalon4 since I do not have one in hand.

Bick it is really hard to be neutral about gear and companies. I am making that effort.

[Bicknellski]

Buying an Avalon 4 doesn't make you look fair and balanced. Let us be honest the Avalon 4's, as people have said here, are over priced and inefficient.

There is a reason for that they are BEHIND the design curve and were very late with this chip when you do a side by side comparison to what else is being offered by the competition. They are not in the same league and I suspect given how far behind they are and the past issues of fraud and delays commercial sales will be non-existent given the competitors products available now and what is planned.

Is this now a product thread review? I thought it was about the poll and consumer sentiments not a single person doing reviews of all the fabricators offerings... bit confused.

What about attempting to rate the current manufacturers?


_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________

Perspective and on topic.  I can't rate them without a demo of gear.

I did sp20------------------------ I paid for the review model and did that thread on my own I paid more then 700 use for it
 
I did prisma --------------------mostly on crazy guy's thread I paid for the review model returned it once fire danger was found out


I did s-5------------------------ A free review model

Avalon 4 ----------------------- A free review model still waiting.

_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________


Avalon is not the company you want to do any deals with given their history.

There are better companies. Better prices and better equipment out there.

Given that you can't make anything mining at home why bother?

Seriously if you are doing it for a hobby put some coins into a company that hasn't basically killed a whole swath of open hardware designers single handedly like Avalon.

There is a reason to avoid them make the right choice.

If people were strictly concerned with the ideology of home mining and not ROI'ing, they would just buy a dozen or less Bitmain U3's or a couple old S3's to underclock and get that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Doesn't change the fact that it makes no more sense than buying an Avalon 4 though.  Surely the U3's/S3's would be quiet too, and you would lose less of your money. Avalon project/Canaan missed the boat with this one, it was clear to see all the way back in the fall (too little too late).




PS Has anyone buying these even run models?  Even with 0% difficulty increase, $0.05/KWh and $300/BTC price (all quite unrealistic atm except maybe power cost), they would take over 200 days to ROI.  Give your head a shake people.  Anyone that is promoting these quite obviously has something to gain, and it's not your hand in friendship  .

I got a S5, 2 S1, I had mutiple usb miner and now I got a Avalon4. We try to make the best evaluation of all miners.
The S5 is lound as hell but with modification you can reach something nice.

I have my miners in my livingroom so I need something quiet. Right now, the Avalon4 is really quit. I also mine on solar power and I mine to be part of the bitcoin system not to get rich. If I can do money over it well good.

I do agree that the Avalon4 is right now not cheap but its a good miner for home miners that dont want to modify anything.

Cheer

Valkir  

I am going to close this particular thread off once I get the avalon 4.

 I do not want to say Much more about avalon4 since I do not have one in hand.

Bick it is really hard to be neutral about gear and companies. I am making that effort.

[philipma1957]

Buying an Avalon 4 doesn't make you look fair and balanced. Let us be honest the Avalon 4's, as people have said here, are over priced and inefficient.

There is a reason for that they are BEHIND the design curve and were very late with this chip when you do a side by side comparison to what else is being offered by the competition. They are not in the same league and I suspect given how far behind they are and the past issues of fraud and delays commercial sales will be non-existent given the competitors products available now and what is planned.

Is this now a product thread review? I thought it was about the poll and consumer sentiments not a single person doing reviews of all the fabricators offerings... bit confused.

You are correct this is not a review thread
I am not posting a review here.
I mentioned I will review the avalon 4
In order to not clog this very long thread with excess info I will close it.

I will review the avalon 4 when it arrives.    new  thread one
I will show my experiences with
4 pieces of gear
Avalon 4
S-5
Sp20
asic miner prisma                                      new thread two

I will do a new poll of gear                         new thread three.

What about attempting to rate the current manufacturers?


_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________

Perspective and on topic.  I can't rate them without a demo of gear.

I did sp20------------------------ I paid for the review model and did that thread on my own I paid more then 700 use for it
 
I did prisma --------------------mostly on crazy guy's thread I paid for the review model returned it once fire danger was found out


I did s-5------------------------ A free review model

Avalon 4 ----------------------- A free review model still waiting.

_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________


Avalon is not the company you want to do any deals with given their history.

There are better companies. Better prices and better equipment out there.

Given that you can't make anything mining at home why bother?

Seriously if you are doing it for a hobby put some coins into a company that hasn't basically killed a whole swath of open hardware designers single handedly like Avalon.

There is a reason to avoid them make the right choice.

If people were strictly concerned with the ideology of home mining and not ROI'ing, they would just buy a dozen or less Bitmain U3's or a couple old S3's to underclock and get that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Doesn't change the fact that it makes no more sense than buying an Avalon 4 though.  Surely the U3's/S3's would be quiet too, and you would lose less of your money. Avalon project/Canaan missed the boat with this one, it was clear to see all the way back in the fall (too little too late).




PS Has anyone buying these even run models?  Even with 0% difficulty increase, $0.05/KWh and $300/BTC price (all quite unrealistic atm except maybe power cost), they would take over 200 days to ROI.  Give your head a shake people.  Anyone that is promoting these quite obviously has something to gain, and it's not your hand in friendship  .

I got a S5, 2 S1, I had mutiple usb miner and now I got a Avalon4. We try to make the best evaluation of all miners.
The S5 is lound as hell but with modification you can reach something nice.

I have my miners in my livingroom so I need something quiet. Right now, the Avalon4 is really quit. I also mine on solar power and I mine to be part of the bitcoin system not to get rich. If I can do money over it well good.

I do agree that the Avalon4 is right now not cheap but its a good miner for home miners that dont want to modify anything.

Cheer

Valkir  

I am going to close this particular thread off once I get the avalon 4.

 I do not want to say Much more about avalon4 since I do not have one in hand.

Bick it is really hard to be neutral about gear and companies. I am making that effort.

Thread is locked.   look for  a new thread on this in about 4-5 weeks