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Author Topic: How does ancap deal with an oil spill?  (Read 4901 times)
FirstAscent
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July 19, 2012, 08:29:20 PM
 #41

You can't propose solutions to problems which you don't have knowledge of.

You didn't actually read that speech I linked to, did you?

Let's try this again...

http://mises.org/daily/3229

Let's not.
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July 19, 2012, 08:29:54 PM
 #42

It's good that you are still waiting. Patience. And yes, you can't solve the world's problems in a vacuum of knowledge. Who would think otherwise?

I know something you would love! http://tinyurl.com/9a6at

http://mises.org/daily/3229
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FirstAscent
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July 19, 2012, 08:41:42 PM
 #43

It's good that you are still waiting. Patience. And yes, you can't solve the world's problems in a vacuum of knowledge. Who would think otherwise?

I know something you would love! http://tinyurl.com/9a6at

Why don't you summarize it for me instead?

Back to the issue at hand: economics and political theory need to factor in the fact that there are 7 billion people on this planet, not one million. The fact that you're arguing with me on this indicates a certain obtuseness on your part coupled with what I suspect is a somewhat starry eyed view of your political ideology.

Sorry, but I suggest you stop being an advocate for your own ignorance.
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July 19, 2012, 08:46:28 PM
 #44

It's good that you are still waiting. Patience. And yes, you can't solve the world's problems in a vacuum of knowledge. Who would think otherwise?

I know something you would love! http://tinyurl.com/9a6at

Why don't you summarize it for me instead?

Oh yes, god forbid you click a link and read an article. Way too much work.

 Roll Eyes

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CoinDiver
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July 19, 2012, 09:17:35 PM
 #45

Why don't you summarize it for me instead?

1) Read the link.
2) Reread my posts.
3) You're welcome.

http://mises.org/daily/3229
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July 19, 2012, 09:44:34 PM
 #46

Why don't you summarize it for me instead?

1) Read the link.
2) Reread my posts.
3) You're welcome.

A link to the definition of communism is rather tiresome. It indicates your level of thinking has attained a high school level of political maturity. Thank you for proving my point.
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July 19, 2012, 09:53:28 PM
 #47

Why don't you summarize it for me instead?

1) Read the link.
2) Reread my posts.
3) You're welcome.

A link to the definition of communism is rather tiresome. It indicates your level of thinking has attained a high school level of political maturity. Thank you for proving my point.

Congratulations! You clicked a link! Good job!

Do you need some ice for that finger?

Now... click on that Mises one, and this time, try actually reading more than the title.

Maybe you'll even get a cookie!

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Explodicle
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July 19, 2012, 10:13:27 PM
 #48

Disclaimer: I'm not an AnCap myself and what follows is still science fiction.

The OP describes an externality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality
Oil spills are no different, they could be handled with Coasian bargaining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coase_Theorem

This requires strong property rights, rational actors, and very low transaction costs. Strong property and low transaction costs are already in the works: for example, Namecoin has strong property rights, and a digital cash server with an open API (like Open Transactions) could be automated for very low transaction costs. Rational actors are beyond science fiction and in the realm of fantasy, but large groups (like oil spill victims) approach rational behavior when viewed collectively.

I'm of the opinion that the only reason the world hasn't advanced to anarchy is because we haven't built all the necessary tools yet. But we're close.
CoinDiver
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July 19, 2012, 10:14:07 PM
 #49

A link to the definition of communism is rather tiresome.

But it's so complicated! You can jerk your mind off all incessantly and it still wont work.

Read the Hayek speech, then we'll talk. It's was the link I was referring to.

http://mises.org/daily/3229
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FirstAscent
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July 19, 2012, 10:16:22 PM
 #50

A link to the definition of communism is rather tiresome.

But it's so complicated! You can jerk your mind off all incessantly and it still wont work.

So? Who wants communism?
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July 19, 2012, 10:20:00 PM
 #51

A link to the definition of communism is rather tiresome.

But it's so complicated! You can jerk your mind off all incessantly and it still wont work.

So? Who wants communism?

FirstAscent want's something to mentally masterbate to. Ancap ain't it. That's the point he is missing. READ THE HAYEK!

http://mises.org/daily/3229
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FirstAscent
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July 20, 2012, 05:50:28 AM
 #52

Ignorance and agendas unique to an individual or entity will generally ensure that full property rights are not a long term solution (nor a short term solution) to resources which undergo transformation when processed for consumption, or resources which receive collateral damage due to other processes.
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July 20, 2012, 06:35:24 AM
 #53

(I'm the oil company)

Fuck you and your fish. I'm not paying jack shit. I'm going to continue raping mother earth because it makes me filthy fucking rich. You want me to fix everything and pay those bleeding-heart fag-loving commy hippies on the beach, wiping off the black, slimy, baby seagulls with baby wipes and a motherly touch? Sorry. That doesn't make me money.

What's that? you don't like it? You are paying a private agency to attack my offshore rigs with guns and boats? I'm filthy fucking rich. My guns are louder, dick longer, boats bigger.

What's that? You want to start your own rigs and run me out of business because consumers hate me and would rather buy your hippie fair-trade certified oil? Too bad, because the entry is too damn expensive. No, you know what? I'll let you waste millions to get your kickstarter funded rig up and running. Then I'll lower prices, because I can, because I paid off these rigs 20 years ago. I will drive you into the dirt.
/devilsadvocate

This is anarcho-capitalism.

So what happens next? millions of people form a consensus that this is evil, and form an alliance to overthrow the oilmongers. (this is what we call democracy). Government is a meaningless label. Power exists and always will. Whether it's a company, a cartel, a king, or a consensus; people will be "governed" regardless.

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July 20, 2012, 06:39:26 AM
 #54

These "Protection agencies" would, for all intents and purposes, become governing bodies. They would have to decide on sets of "rules" for members to be bound by in arbitration... which would effectively become laws. You would pay these "Protection agencies" a "membership fee", which would effectively be a tax. They would fulfill all the useful roles of government, without out all the bloat. The most significant difference is we would all have a choice. Protection Agency A, Protection Agency B, Protection Agency z, no protection agency, etc....

The most honest answer to any of these "How does ancap deal with..." questions is "I don't know, and it doesn't matter". The point is not how we can force everyone to live a "better" life, but how naturally we can't force anyone to do anything. The government is an evil corporate monopoly, and should be put down.

Except that the defining factor of a tax is that it is compulsory. The modern tax system, as well, is designed so that it's nearly impossible for the individual to figure out how much, if anything, they owe. So the fees which one would pay to a protection agency, which are completely voluntary, and necessarily quite simple to understand, are nothing like taxes.

I can't agree. I know exactly what I owe and it's not hard to understand what is going on.

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myrkul
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July 20, 2012, 06:58:03 AM
 #55

(I'm the oil company)

Fuck you and your fish. I'm not paying jack shit. I'm going to continue raping the earth because it makes me filthy fucking rich. You want me to fix everything and pay those bleeding-heart fag-loving commy hippies on the beach, wiping off the black, slimy, baby seagulls with baby wipes and a motherly touch? Sorry. That doesn't make me money.
Fuck you and your oil. I'll drive electric.
What's that? you don't like it? You are paying a private agency to attack my offshore rigs with guns and boats? I'm filthy fucking rich. My guns are louder, dick longer, boats bigger.
Hmm... No, your dick is not bigger than my aerial bombardment. We can climb this tree, if you want, or we can negotiate peacefully. Your choice.
What's that? You want to start your own rigs and run me out of business because consumers hate me and would rather buy your hippie fair-trade certified oil? Too bad, because the entry is too damn expensive. No, you know what? I'll let you waste millions to get your kickstarter funded rig up and running. Then I'll lower prices, because I can, because I paid off these rigs 20 years ago. I will drive you into the dirt.
/devilsadvocate
Hey, sure. But my hippy-friendly oil rig is paid off, and my payroll account is good for a year, because the people really fucking hate you. My kickstarter campaign tripled my goal. Free gas for everyone! How long can you keep that up, and the defense of your rig(s)?

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July 20, 2012, 07:16:07 AM
 #56

(I'm the oil company)

Fuck you and your fish. I'm not paying jack shit. I'm going to continue raping the earth because it makes me filthy fucking rich. You want me to fix everything and pay those bleeding-heart fag-loving commy hippies on the beach, wiping off the black, slimy, baby seagulls with baby wipes and a motherly touch? Sorry. That doesn't make me money.
Fuck you and your oil. I'll drive electric.
What's that? you don't like it? You are paying a private agency to attack my offshore rigs with guns and boats? I'm filthy fucking rich. My guns are louder, dick longer, boats bigger.
Hmm... No, your dick is not bigger than my aerial bombardment. We can climb this tree, if you want, or we can negotiate peacefully. Your choice.
What's that? You want to start your own rigs and run me out of business because consumers hate me and would rather buy your hippie fair-trade certified oil? Too bad, because the entry is too damn expensive. No, you know what? I'll let you waste millions to get your kickstarter funded rig up and running. Then I'll lower prices, because I can, because I paid off these rigs 20 years ago. I will drive you into the dirt.
/devilsadvocate
Hey, sure. But my hippy-friendly oil rig is paid off, and my payroll account is good for a year, because the people really fucking hate you. My kickstarter campaign tripled my goal. Free gas for everyone! How long can you keep that up, and the defense of your rig(s)?

Lol! Good points here.
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July 20, 2012, 03:12:45 PM
 #57

(I'm the oil company)

Fuck you and your fish. I'm not paying jack shit. I'm going to continue raping the earth because it makes me filthy fucking rich. You want me to fix everything and pay those bleeding-heart fag-loving commy hippies on the beach, wiping off the black, slimy, baby seagulls with baby wipes and a motherly touch? Sorry. That doesn't make me money.
Fuck you and your oil. I'll drive electric.

Why aren't we all doing that right now? What stopped Mr. AnCap, the entrepreneur, from already making that happen?

Quote
What's that? you don't like it? You are paying a private agency to attack my offshore rigs with guns and boats? I'm filthy fucking rich. My guns are louder, dick longer, boats bigger.
Hmm... No, your dick is not bigger than my aerial bombardment. We can climb this tree, if you want, or we can negotiate peacefully. Your choice.

That's real good for the environment when the well head starts gushing. Not a solution, Mr. AnCap dreamer.
mcorlett
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July 20, 2012, 03:17:09 PM
 #58

(I'm the oil company)

Fuck you and your fish. I'm not paying jack shit. I'm going to continue raping the earth because it makes me filthy fucking rich. You want me to fix everything and pay those bleeding-heart fag-loving commy hippies on the beach, wiping off the black, slimy, baby seagulls with baby wipes and a motherly touch? Sorry. That doesn't make me money.
Fuck you and your oil. I'll drive electric.

Why aren't we all doing that right now? What stopped Mr. AnCap, the entrepreneur, from already making that happen?
Isn't the answer to this obvious? The government!

FirstAscent
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July 20, 2012, 03:35:03 PM
 #59

(I'm the oil company)

Fuck you and your fish. I'm not paying jack shit. I'm going to continue raping the earth because it makes me filthy fucking rich. You want me to fix everything and pay those bleeding-heart fag-loving commy hippies on the beach, wiping off the black, slimy, baby seagulls with baby wipes and a motherly touch? Sorry. That doesn't make me money.
Fuck you and your oil. I'll drive electric.

Why aren't we all doing that right now? What stopped Mr. AnCap, the entrepreneur, from already making that happen?
Isn't the answer to this obvious? The government!

Really? You're an idiot. The government is giving money to Tesla Motors and others. Sorry, you libertarian clown (and I mean that collectively), as usual, your one line retorts are neither indicative of thought, knowledge or research, but as usual, knee jerk reactions.
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July 20, 2012, 03:46:24 PM
 #60

Isn't the answer to this obvious? The government!
Really? You're an idiot. The government is giving money to Tesla Motors and others. Sorry, you libertarian clown (and I mean that collectively), as usual, your one line retorts are neither indicative of thought, knowledge or research, but as usual, knee jerk reactions.
Character assassination? I would expect nothing less!

Here's some information I was able to find within a few minutes (do note that I have not actively researched this area):
http://rense.com/general72/oinvent.htm
http://www.broandrew.com/suppression.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfj1O45qZ5U

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