How many of you still believe bitcoin will free you from paying tax one day?

[bitkilo]

I have never belived bitcoin will stop me paying tax.
Does anyone really think that the US government will let things like ETF to start business if they know there not going to get any tax at the end of the day.

[oblivi]

I never thought it would ever free me from taxes.

Only 3 things for sure in life; Birth, Death, and Taxes

Taxes dont apply for the super really rich elite, they always find a way to scam the goverment.

And no you'll be paying taxes, unless you never withdraw your btc in fiat.
There will be no way to inspect every single computer for bitcoin lol.

[bitkilo]

Even if you never cash out to fiat, correct me if im wrong but i think he US government requires you to pay tax on you earnings.
If you buy BTC at say $100 then at end of financial year there worth $1000 u still have to pay capital gains tax on your profits.
I may be way off, i don't know a lot about US BTC tax laws.

[Fat Ronaldo]

IMO the problem with people complaining about paying taxes is that taxes pay for vital services that government provides. Yes I think taxes are too high, and yes I think that government spends money on a lot that they should not spend it on however without everyone paying taxes I would overall be less safe and overall be worse off

For me, the sad thing is in how common this point of view is.  Many people assume that these vital services can only be adequately supplied by the government.  Few people ever try to justify this assumption and, in my experience, none have truly succeeded.  Indeed, I believe that without taxes we would be overall more safe and better off.

Arguing that those complaining about taxation are unaware of its function is akin to accusing the Bitcoin developers and early adopters of being unaware that banks and the government need control over our money to help fight crime and manage the economy.  There are plenty of people here that not only understand this but are poised ready to tear such a comment apart.

Granted, there exist plenty of taxation's critics that don't know what they're talking about and could even be won over by your trite observation but it's beyond insulting to assume that all critics have spent fewer than 60 seconds considering their position.

I don't think, we would be safer, when police and courts would be replaced by private firms.
You got raped? We don't care, since you can't afford our service.

Yep. There's two sides to the whole government debate, but I definitely don't like the idea of private police policing certain areas where people can afford to pay for them. People who can't afford vital services arte shit out of luck otherwise.

[thebitcoinquiz.com]

I never wanted to be free from taxes. Taxes are necessary for a country to run. And as I never wanted to be free from taxes I never thought of bitcoin making me free from taxes.
And for all those who think like that, most probably its possible that government will start to put tax on bitcoins. Pay your taxes in bitcoins and live happily.
P.S : You cannot evade taxes.

[Skeksis]

I never wanted to be free from taxes. Taxes are necessary for a country to run. And as I never wanted to be free from taxes I never thought of bitcoin making me free from taxes.
And for all those who think like that, most probably its possible that government will start to put tax on bitcoins. Pay your taxes in bitcoins and live happily.
P.S : You cannot evade taxes.

You're wrong. There are other alternatives to taxes or not paying taxes at all, though I'm not arguing that they're better. I'm only a fan of taxes when they're spent properly and not paid to tyrants. Sadly this is usually the case.

[bitkilo]

That is why we vote, how the government spends our tax money often depends on them retaining office for another term.

[desired_username]

That is why we vote, how the government spends our tax money often depends on them retaining office for another term.

Hahahahahha. That was a good one.

[thebitcoinquiz.com]

I never wanted to be free from taxes. Taxes are necessary for a country to run. And as I never wanted to be free from taxes I never thought of bitcoin making me free from taxes.
And for all those who think like that, most probably its possible that government will start to put tax on bitcoins. Pay your taxes in bitcoins and live happily.
P.S : You cannot evade taxes.

You're wrong. There are other alternatives to taxes or not paying taxes at all, though I'm not arguing that they're better. I'm only a fan of taxes when they're spent properly and not paid to tyrants. Sadly this is usually the case.

Only way of paying absolutely no tax is stealing. You have to pay tax when you buy a candy. You have to pay tax when you go to toilet and use toilet paper. You pay tax on everything. Paying no tax isn't an alternative.

[inBitweTrust]

Only way of paying absolutely no tax is stealing. You have to pay tax when you buy a candy. You have to pay tax when you go to toilet and use toilet paper. You pay tax on everything. Paying no tax isn't an alternative.

False. Sales tax is difficult to avoid but can be done without stealing. People can use bitcoin, barter, and even grow their own food to avoid sales tax.

[Daniel91]

I never wanted to be free from taxes. Taxes are necessary for a country to run. And as I never wanted to be free from taxes I never thought of bitcoin making me free from taxes.
And for all those who think like that, most probably its possible that government will start to put tax on bitcoins. Pay your taxes in bitcoins and live happily.
P.S : You cannot evade taxes.

You're wrong. There are other alternatives to taxes or not paying taxes at all, though I'm not arguing that they're better. I'm only a fan of taxes when they're spent properly and not paid to tyrants. Sadly this is usually the case.

Only way of paying absolutely no tax is stealing. You have to pay tax when you buy a candy. You have to pay tax when you go to toilet and use toilet paper. You pay tax on everything. Paying no tax isn't an alternative.

If you pay for digital staff online with virtual currency like bitcoin, you will not pay tax.
Can you explain me how will I pay tax for buying and downloading some software online and paying in bitcoin?
No way.

[BitCoinNutJob]

Is this dream even still alive?

Not with the current technology available but yes i believe some time in the next 10-20 years we will be able to avoid paying tax if needed.

[inBitweTrust]

Is this dream even still alive?

Not with the current technology available but yes i believe some time in the next 10-20 years we will be able to avoid paying tax if needed.

It's not an either/or proposition as bitcoin is already succeeding at reducing peoples tax burden.

[leopard2]

reasonable taxes are fine but the fact that I am paying rent which is 100 times higher than what I would pay if I could get fiat money from our central bank, is nothing short of slavery

central bank: 0.05%
bank mortgage: 1%
rental yield: 4-6%

That system is nothing short of slavery. It is almost impossble to escape because prices rise faster than anyone can save. If money was based on silver or whatever, people could rent for 10-20 years, save some silver, and then buy their own place. Prices would not increase exponentially but be mostly flat.

Almost everything (factories, land etc) are subject to the same effect, so there is a huge slavery tax on all goods and services. This is why people learn and work more and more, even though technology becomes more effective every day (e.g. 1 farmer feeding 300 people)

FIAT MONEY = SLAVERY

[BitNerd]

reasonable taxes are fine but the fact that I am paying rent which is 100 times higher than what I would pay if I could get fiat money from our central bank, is nothing short of slavery

central bank: 0.05%
bank mortgage: 1%
rental yield: 4-6%

That system is nothing short of slavery. It is almost impossble to escape because prices rise faster than anyone can save. If money was based on silver or whatever, people could rent for 10-20 years, save some silver, and then buy their own place. Prices would not increase exponentially but be mostly flat.

Almost everything (factories, land etc) are subject to the same effect, so there is a huge slavery tax on all goods and services. This is why people learn and work more and more, even though technology becomes more effective every day (e.g. 1 farmer feeding 300 people)

FIAT MONEY = SLAVERY

+1

[Searing]

Is this dream even still alive?

regulated exchanges are popping up..

mining is increasingly becoming centralized!

every idea that created bitcoin  seems to fade away.

back the dream was in  a world where you could buy or hire anything in bitcoin , the government will never be able to prove your wealth you own in bitcoin and thereby you need not pay  taxes or pay them little and keep all your wealth yourself!

Thereby, the hard to earn wealth that you earned with hard work is all yours!

But if this was true by now, some few millions from the trillions kept in Swiss banks should have flown into bitcoins market cap!

it does not happen till now because  bitcoin is not anonymous and only projects like dark wallet may be the the final spice to add to complete the recipe!

But are you losing hope? you still think bitcoin will free you one day from paying tax?

see, I am not explicitly saying that  bitcoin was created for tax evasion, but rather implying that crypto currencies will eventually result in people to be in control of their wealth and that eventually will be disruptive to the state

er nope my bank made a 90k error on my $10.131.80 knc money order.....did not bother to check if they made error called the SEC
(i was a dangerous man for a week ...felt like a drug lord)....went to bank but took the PRECAUTION of filing under USA 2013 guidelines
for alt currencies on bitcoin profits etc.....showed them the bank error with my paper work at the bank while SEC guy was on phone
and of course being paranoid having taxes paid and legit biz paid off..... first words out of banker's mouth was not sorry or never mind was
something along the line to cover their butt (as i suspected it would go) and again this was around jan/2014 ordered miner nov 2013
us bitcon types were in 'desperado' mode in the news/press..anyway banker pointed out I was not a business no taxes that
was also a SEC/IRS matter etc ...so then i plop'd my legal by a cpa tax forms down cutting the asshole off at the knees and i could overhear the
SEC guy yelling on phone why was the bank wasting his time! I then boggied out of the bank and changed banks!

Later went to CPA and was fairly certain I'd have to pay 4k in taxes..i paid zip (equip deductions new biz all that) this year i made zip ...will
make more on equip deductions etc may pay 1k to 1.5k not sure yet (may pay zip again) the cpa takes care of it...considering the SEC
involvement and the over 10k sent overseas and all the forms i signed on the miner in 2013 (one of which stated i was NOT hiding assets)
I'll take that as a close shave with finance death!

but considering the alternative.....with the bank i shudder to think if i'd have walked in and not been a business with a cpa tax
form filed at that time

anyway the good news is I'm so squeaky clean i sound like i need oil when i walk or talk bitcoin.......when bitcoin hits 10k I
can spend lavishly and whatever and IRS or FED's show up ..they can eat my shorts ..I'm clean as a whistle......when I get that
speedboat and/or sports car lol (dare to dream) only  would have to pay capital gains at that time.....(as hopefully btc goes to the moon!)

anyway 2013 paid no taxes.....and 2014 the biz part will prob make me more $$$ then I lost mining.....next year more modest with
www.coinbase.com and buying as my friend...(maybe i should send the banker ass*ole that he is a fruit basket..I may have
been better off this year and last with equip deductions..and being legal...yeah way better off) anyway this year sucked

if NEXT year sucks i will sell my 2013 coin they taxed me mining at 1200 usd then for 200 usd or below say if that is the
case this year..and take a 'capital loss' if btc goes beanie baby will go bankrupt and also get some tax relief in the future
my cpa says the IRS can't have it both ways if you invest in equip and the IRS taxes revenue stream then you get certain
protections ..in fact the IRS imho was BULLISH on BTC they treated it as 'land' (ie farmer) and I think they expected it
to stay around $1k in value ....thus the 2013 IRS alt coin guidelines..heh who'd a thunk it....

if BTC goes back to 1000 usd next year ...i won't sweat the small stuff this year with IRS payments (if any)

(yep prob should send the damn banker a fruit basket)

anyway my situation or I'd be like you guys just a mining and figure the tax stuff out later when the powers that be
do get around to doing so..but yeah...they are fully aware of bitcoin/alts and the IRS is NEVER EVER gonna let you
mine $$$ out of thin air and not tax you on it...they MAY give you equip depreciation like a farmer for the risk etc
because in the long run the IRS always wants your business to do well (so with state and local taxes they can get 25%
off said income)

well IRS this year the crops died .....so looks pretty much like under 2013 guidllines i be a farmer don't ya know lol
we both are gonna have to deal with it ..you with less revenue (or none) me with acting like a whiny farmer on
my equip deductions!

bitcoin/alts never a dull moment!

[countryfree]

Taxes is how the government does everything, the government system wouldn't surivve without taxes.

This is precisely, why so many people don't want to pay tax any longer. BTC isn't enough to achieve that goal, but it can certainly help.

But people don't understand that EVERYTHING they do is covered by taxes. Drive a car to the store and buy fuel, that fuel is brought to you by the government. Drive on the road, that'2s covered by taxes.

I suggest you travel around the world. There are countries without any kind of income tax, and they have roads and gas stations. From my experience, the best countries in the world, with the best equipment and the nicest people, are the countries with the lowest taxes.

Who said BTC has been designed with tax evasion in mind? Those who are successful in this game do not need BTC, even if it makes many things easier, but regular folks with 9to5 jobs will pay tax forever, and BTC won't change anything for them.

BTC makes it easier to start an undocumented, unregistered business, but few businesses and even fewer people can take advantage of that.
 

So the rich dont have to pay taxes! is tax only for the middle class and poor

No, not the rich in a general sense. It's the adventurous don't have to pay tax.

adventurious means? those who do sky diving and scuba diving?

No, that's only a few minutes of adventure.

Real adventure means choosing not to have any fixed income, nor a fixed address.
That's my way. I don't know yet in which country I'll be living this April (well, I'm hesitating between Italy and Ethiopia).

[Q7]

Having an optional currency not controlled by the government doesn't mean that i don't need to pay taxes to the government. By itself it still need taxes to run and operate and they will levy that to the citizen so we can't run away from that.

[hashman]

Having an optional currency not controlled by the government doesn't mean that i don't need to pay taxes to the government. By itself it still need taxes to run and operate and they will levy that to the citizen so we can't run away from that.

What exactly do you mean by "the government"?  I pay taxes at my restaurant directly to the waiter, and I do so with bitcoin.  The governing structure there is mostly run by the manager, with approval of a group of two owners.     

[picolo]

Having an optional currency not controlled by the government doesn't mean that i don't need to pay taxes to the government. By itself it still need taxes to run and operate and they will levy that to the citizen so we can't run away from that.

What exactly do you mean by "the government"?  I pay taxes at my restaurant directly to the waiter, and I do so with bitcoin.  The governing structure there is mostly run by the manager, with approval of a group of two owners.     

You can avoid paying most taxes by being registered somewhere you don't have to pay much.