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Author Topic: About Bitcoin paper notes  (Read 3103 times)
rastapool
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July 19, 2012, 01:36:06 AM
 #1

I think a bit about this, and I invent a method of using bitcoin notes in close to usual banknotes way.
You need 3-th side in this, say paperbitcoins.com
You need to create an account on paperbitcoins.com and preload it with some bitcoins on you'r main wallet.
Next you need to create a bills what you need. Say 500 mBTC, 1 BTC, 1 BTC, 2 BTC, 2 BTC, 5 BTC, 10 BTC.
Then you got the barcodes, related to this bills. It's not bitcoin keys, it's paperbitcoins.com-inside codes.
Then you need to print the notes like this

in my example it will be 7 notes with nominals 0.5, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5 and 10 BTC. Probably you need to use a different colors for different face value for usability reasons, but it's not matter. You need you'r barcodes on that notes. Actually paperbitcoins.com can automatically generate for you 7 svg files with you'r notes.
Then you need a RSA SecurID token, connected to you account on paperbitcoins.com.
You also need the public key from your main wallet for your change. You can paint it on your RSA token for example.

Say, you need to pay 2,9 BTC.
You find 1 BTC and 2 BTC notes in your wallet and give it, with your RSA token, to the seller.
Then the seller scan codes from your notes, enter the authentication code from your RSA token (in software from paperbitcoins.com), and got 3 BTC from you. Then the seller scan public key from the main wallet and charge you 0.1 BTC back. You can't control you charge back, but if you care, you can print a many small notes, like 50 mBTC and pay without a charge.
Then the seller gives you back your notes and RSA token. This is a reusable notes.
When the authentication code on the RSA token will change, or after any amount of time, you choose, more than this, paperbitcoins.com automatically will reload your notes from the main wallet. And now you can use it again.

This is a way more secure than a notes with bitcoin public keys on it. You do not need to hide and bother about your notes.
And my grandma still can use it. I can print a notes for her, give her a token, and tell how to use it.
This is similar to common money, but you need to take it back after you use it.
If you loose it, no one can stole your money, without your token. If you forgot to take you notes back, don't worry, your money is not be lost, you can go to paperbitcoins.com, destroy that notes, take money from them on you main wallet and create new notes.

BTW, I don't know if this is usable, but what do you think?

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July 19, 2012, 01:52:08 AM
 #2

Looks like a peso note sorta Smiley
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July 19, 2012, 01:54:06 AM
 #3

How is this different from banking with a debit card?  Except that if the site gets hacked you are SOL?

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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July 19, 2012, 01:56:46 AM
 #4

Sounds do able. The more electronic you make the paper note, the more it begs for a fully electronic implementation.  Apple wants to basically do this same idea with the new passbook program in iOS 6. For example, why not let your phone present a partial private key and your rsa fob the other part?

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rastapool
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July 19, 2012, 02:03:03 AM
 #5

When you banking with a debit card, you have two options:
1. rollback payments, and headache for issuer, and increased fees as result, and this is not Bitcoin.
2. non rollback payments. And anyone who have or had access to you debit card can stole your money.

Quote
why not let your phone present a partial private key and your rsa fob the other part?
My grandma can't do that.
Many people (in Africa, or India for example) don't have a mobile phone, or have a phone that can't do that job.
But if you can, obviously you can use your phone instead of hardware RSA token.

The parasite hates three things: free markets, free will, and free men.
Napster is down - this is the END of illegal file sharing!
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July 19, 2012, 02:12:54 AM
 #6

Sounds do able. The more electronic you make the paper note, the more it begs for a fully electronic implementation.  Apple wants to basically do this same idea with the new passbook program in iOS 6. For example, why not let your phone present a partial private key and your rsa fob the other part?

Because your RSA fob puts out a 6 digit number, all combinations of which can be brute forced in seconds on a CPU nevermind a GPU.  It cannot be used to secure a crypto key.  The only way a SecurID works is with a centralized service that would lock you out rather than let you take enough attempts to exhaust the entire 6-digit number space.  If a centralized service is required to grant you access to your money, it's pretty much a bank, you may as well just use a debit card with PIN.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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July 19, 2012, 02:19:59 AM
 #7

When you banking with a debit card, you have two options:
1. rollback payments, and headache for issuer, and increased fees as result, and this is not Bitcoin.
2. non rollback payments. And anyone who have or has access to you debit card can stole your money.

Quote
why not let your phone present a partial private key and your rsa fob the other part?
My grandma can't do that.
Many people (in Africa, or India for example) don't have a mobile phone, or have a phone that can't do that job.
But if you can, obviously you can use your phone instead of hardware RSA token.

This can be an effective way to send Bitcoin by postal mail to a trusted person for example a grandma.

1) Cut the note in half
2) Send the private key.
3) Verify receipt
4) Send the public key

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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July 19, 2012, 02:25:10 AM
 #8


This can be an effective way to send Bitcoin by postal mail to a trusted person for example a grandma.

1) Cut the note in half
2) Send the private key.
3) Verify receipt
4) Send the public key


The public key can be calculated from the private key and isn't needed to spend the funds.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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July 19, 2012, 02:56:01 AM
 #9


This can be an effective way to send Bitcoin by postal mail to a trusted person for example a grandma.

1) Cut the note in half
2) Send the private key.
3) Verify receipt
4) Send the public key


The public key can be calculated from the private key and isn't needed to spend the funds.

You all are trying to turn Bitcoin into something that it is not. This is just my opinon. Perhaps it is the puritan in me talking but this is getting dangerous now.

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unclemantis
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July 19, 2012, 03:29:15 AM
 #10

I think a bit about this, and I invent a method of using bitcoin notes in close to usual banknotes way.
You need 3-th side in this, say paperbitcoins.com
You need to create an account on paperbitcoins.com and preload it with some bitcoins on you'r main wallet.
Next you need to create a bills what you need. Say 500 mBTC, 1 BTC, 1 BTC, 2 BTC, 2 BTC, 5 BTC, 10 BTC.
Then you got the barcodes, related to this bills. It's not bitcoin keys, it's paperbitcoins.com-inside codes.
Then you need to print the notes like this

in my example it will be 7 notes with nominals 0.5, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5 and 10 BTC. Probably you need to use a different colors for different face value for usability reasons, but it's not matter. You need you'r barcodes on that notes. Actually paperbitcoins.com can automatically generate for you 7 svg files with you'r notes.
Then you need a RSA SecurID token, connected to you account on paperbitcoins.com.
You also need the public key from your main wallet for your change. You can paint it on your RSA token for example.

Say, you need to pay 2,9 BTC.
You find 1 BTC and 2 BTC notes in your wallet and give it, with your RSA token, to the seller.
Then the seller scan codes from your notes, enter the authentication code from your RSA token (in software from paperbitcoins.com), and got 3 BTC from you. Then the seller scan public key from the main wallet and charge you 0.1 BTC back. You can't control you charge back, but if you care, you can print a many small notes, like 50 mBTC and pay without a charge.
Then the seller gives you back your notes and RSA token. This is a reusable notes.
When the authentication code on the RSA token will change, or after any amount of time, you choose, more than this, paperbitcoins.com automatically will reload your notes from the main wallet. And now you can use it again.

This is a way more secure than a notes with bitcoin public keys on it. You do not need to hide and bother about your notes.
And my grandma still can use it. I can print a notes for her, give her a token, and tell how to use it.
This is similar to common money, but you need to take it back after you use it.
If you loose it, no one can stole your money, without your token. If you forgot to take you notes back, don't worry, your money is not be lost, you can go to paperbitcoins.com, destroy that notes, take money from them on you main wallet and create new notes.

BTW, I don't know if this is usable, but what do you think?

I am reading this over and over and it reads like a smartphone app but without the smartphone.

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July 19, 2012, 04:19:27 AM
 #11



this is a very attractive looking bitcoin banknote

did you make it your self?

if i was you I'd enter it into casascius banknote contest

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=92969.msg1040031#msg1040031

rastapool
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July 19, 2012, 04:24:56 AM
 #12

No, it's from casascius banknote thread. This note was made by psy.

Quote
like a smartphone app but without the smartphone
I think it's pretty successful analogy.

The parasite hates three things: free markets, free will, and free men.
Napster is down - this is the END of illegal file sharing!
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July 19, 2012, 04:40:35 AM
 #13

No, it's from casascius banknote thread. This note was made by psy.

Quote
like a smartphone app but without the smartphone
I think it's pretty successful analogy.
Wow psy good job!!!

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            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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finkleshnorts
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July 19, 2012, 05:16:46 AM
 #14


This can be an effective way to send Bitcoin by postal mail to a trusted person for example a grandma.

1) Cut the note in half
2) Send the private key.
3) Verify receipt
4) Send the public key


The public key can be calculated from the private key and isn't needed to spend the funds.

You all are trying to turn Bitcoin into something that it is not. This is just my opinon. Perhaps it is the puritan in me talking but this is getting dangerous now.

+1

unless you can hand someone a bill and forget all about it, im not sure what this accomplishes.

Cool idea though! interested to see where this goes.
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