I am becoming skeptic about the crowdfunded crypto 2.0 projects!

[cuddaloreappu]

Some Computer geeks have found a new way to become millionaires

Announce a new crypto2.0 project and have a site built very beautiful..

create virtual tokens which are premined and conduct a crowdsale to collect bitcoin in exchange for the virtual tokens of the project assuring that their project and their tokens will be of huge value on launch..

people send their bitcoins and wait, while the group slowly dump the collected bitcoins into the markets by claiming this and that expense for the project while silently making millions and at the same time causing bitcoin to crash..

I believe it is almost time people have become immune to the pre mine altcoin scams by middle of 2014 but may be this  crypto 2.0 crowdfund projects could be the new pre mine scams of 2015...

Of course there are good and honest crypto 2.0 projects in this space, but how to find them..

Becoming increasingly skeptic....

[LiteCoinGuy]

yep, they will bite the dust. no Mastercoin or anything like that will gain meaningful traction. the money is gone. nice concepts. and Ether will be the same  

most people dont understand the network effect. build something with bitcoin or you lose.

[Daedelus]

At least two new Core devs have joined Nxt (Roberto, Yudi and team). That takes us to 11+ now 
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/(core)-dev-team-increase/

Who is paying these guys, and how much money are they making? 

Read the thread.

The devs are implementing the features needed to run their business, DeBuNe. The business, they hope, will make money.

Many guys approach Nxt, wanting to use it for thier business. Here is another who plans to be making 10,000 Txs a second, using Nxt as the backbone of their network: https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/maximum-block-size-is-too-restrictive/


Roberto and Yudi happen to want to build in core features they need, rather use ones that already exist. And more power to them 

[StanLarimer]

We reached a similar conclusion about crowd-funding after our experience with BitShares AGS:

Stop the Crowd Sales - Long Live Crowd Funding!

But as to how to find good 2.0 - you have to do your homework.  

How available are the developers to the public?
Do you know their real names and where they live?
How big is their team?  Do you know their names too?
How much has been published about their work?
Do they publish frequently?
How extensively have they been interviewed?
Have you checked out their Github Stats?
How many Bitcoin conference keynote addresses have they presented?
How much has their work been vetted in public forum discussions?

Do they carry on respectful public discussions with other 2.0 leaders?

Key links to these answers for BitShares

[Daedelus]

Style over substance still, I see Stan.

[EvilDave]

@bitcoinjesus2.0:
Taking your points one at a time, the purple bits are mine.....


the world is beginning to wake up and realize that the only fair distribution method is the old school bitcoin POW launch.
The launch method where the earliest adopter gets all the coins ?
Look at the early BTC distribution, even today the BTC distribution could never be called 'fair'. And lets not even get started on fiat distribution........

For it is the launch method that makes a coin a Bitcoin2.0.
IPO coins cannot be called Bitcoin2.0 by definition.
I'd prefer to define Bitcoin 2.0 as being systems that allow extra functionality within crypto-currency, above the simple store/transfer functionality that BTC offers.
The launch method has very little to do with this definition. I'd prefer to use the term 2nd generation cryptocurrency, instead of the almost meaningless Bitcoin 2.0 tag.

XCP & NXT are awesome, I just don't see where they are going to get the money to grow their company to the size of bitcoin.  
See, NXT is not a company. Not corporate at all. NXT is open source software which provides a platform for crypto applications.

I can't tell who the main forgers are, or what they are spending their money on.
The main forgers will be spending their forging revenues on coffee at Starbucks. Forging is not a way to get rich off the back of the network, it's a way to support the network and cover your costs for running a node.

I prefer the fiscal transparency of BitShares where all paid delegates are communicating to the public exactly who they are, and what they are doing with their mined coins. If NXT told me who the top 100 miners of their coins were and what they were spending their paycheck on, then I'd increase my NXT stake 10x.
Again, you assume BitShares level of income from running a NXT forging node. Forging is not designed to bring in a serious income.
Some of the big forging nodes, btw, are community funded and their revenue goes into NXT community funds. Dont assume that because you see a big account, that this account is a single entity belonging to a single NXT whale.

Who is paying these guys, and how much are they making?  How much of the IPO money is left in the company safe?  
Our best paid devs are getting 50,000 NXT per month from NXT community funds. There is no IPO money, because the massive sum of 21 BTC that was raised for the initial IPO of NXT....welll, it didn't go very far. NXT is currently funded by donations from stakeholders, and by the community fund (which consists of the unclaimed shares of NXT left after after the initial distribution)

The lack of transparency keeps investors away.  Wall Street craves transparency.  Wall Street likes quarterly reports that most companies hate to file and give.  But BitShares gives continuous financial reports!  So I know exactly how much money is coming in and who gets it, and what they are working on.  And if I think that they are making too much money, then I fire them!
Again, NXT is not a corporate business. No-one can get fired. We don't have quarterly reports.
If a business or government wishes to use NXT, they can get all the transparency they need by just asking.  

[BitcoiNaked]

O look a bitcoin bag holder being scared of crypto 2.0, well not if the funds are locked in multisig and only gets release by reputable members on a milestone basis, meaning devs getting paid per development. Some Crypto 2.0 projects are in contrary to the scammy copy paste 1.0 coins legit.

[TaunSew]

Ripple?     Not holding my breath for something older than Bitcoin to somehow go viral..   
Ripple Labs (and their Stellar department) own like 95%+ of their coins and that allows them to manipulate and scam until the cows come home.

[jertsy]

I'm not against crypto 2.0 projects but there have been some big let downs. Crypti raised a massive amount of bitcoins during its IPO and now it's worth peanuts.

[TaunSew]

I'm not against crypto 2.0 projects but there have been some big let downs. Crypti raised a massive amount of bitcoins during its IPO and now it's worth peanuts.

Skeptical Hippo is skeptical.  The trend nowadays is for coin creators to invest into their own IPO and getting free coins and their BTC back.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Of course there are good and honest crypto 2.0 projects in this space, but how to find them..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942352.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.0


found.

I seriously hope you are joking.  NEM is a pathetic joke started by a known liar and a scammer.  What a bunch of hypocritical NEMwits.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Of course there are good and honest crypto 2.0 projects in this space, but how to find them..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942352.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.0


found.

I seriously hope you are joking.  NEM is a pathetic joke started by a known liar and a scammer.  What a bunch of hypocritical NEMwits.

that "pathetic joke" just released the first ever blockchain based fully decentralised multisig implementation. State of the art harveting(forging) technology which allows users to connect to a remote instance of the software and harvest using a cold storage account with out ever sending a private key or any sensitive data over the network, even the operator of the instance (of NIS) could be a known thief and the account you harvest on it with can not be compromised. combine this with multisig and you can lock down your coins in a cold storage multisig account and use that account to harvest on a thiefs NIS and your coins will be safe all while using them to harvest. and in the same way you can harvest safely on a thief's nis, you can also do transactions safely.

the proof is in the beta.

troll harder dude.

I'm not "trolling".  It's the TRUTH.  All you NEMwits are a bunch of goddamn hypocritical lying bastards.

I can guarantee you that UtopianFuture (and all his sockpuppets) have tons of illegitimate stakes.  Do you honestly expect people to believe that all of UtopianFuture's sockpuppet stakes have been taken away from him.  You NEMwits did that completely bogus "investigation" to uncover his stakes, but the TRUTH is that you have absolutely NO way of knowing how many stakes anyone has.

Initially, NEM was going to give away all the stakes for free, but then it was decided to start selling stakes.  That is BS because some people got MULTIPLE stakes for free and others bought them under the assumption that NEM had a "fair distribution".  What a joke.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Of course there are good and honest crypto 2.0 projects in this space, but how to find them..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942352.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.0


found.

I seriously hope you are joking.  NEM is a pathetic joke started by a known liar and a scammer.  What a bunch of hypocritical NEMwits.

that "pathetic joke" just released the first ever blockchain based fully decentralised multisig implementation. State of the art harveting(forging) technology which allows users to connect to a remote instance of the software and harvest using a cold storage account with out ever sending a private key or any sensitive data over the network, even the operator of the instance (of NIS) could be a known thief and the account you harvest on it with can not be compromised. combine this with multisig and you can lock down your coins in a cold storage multisig account and use that account to harvest on a thiefs NIS and your coins will be safe all while using them to harvest. and in the same way you can harvest safely on a thief's nis, you can also do transactions safely.

the proof is in the beta.

troll harder dude.

I'm not "trolling".  It's the TRUTH.  All you NEMwits are a bunch of goddamn hypocritical lying bastards.

I can guarantee you that UtopianFuture (and all his sockpuppets) have tons of illegitimate stakes.  Do you honestly expect people to believe that all of UtopianFuture's sockpuppet stakes have been taken away from him.  You NEMwits did that completely bogus "investigation" to uncover his stakes, but the TRUTH is that you have absolutely NO way of knowing how many stakes anyone has.

Initially, NEM was going to give away all the stakes for free, but then it was decided to start selling stakes.  That is BS because some people got MULTIPLE stakes for free and others bought them under the assumption that NEM had a "fair distribution".  What a joke.

yes he admitted to having socks. but the chances of him being able to claim them are slim to none due to the methods used for catching sock masters. inthe second round of sock removal, IP addresses and browser finger prints were logged (and then hashed or something for privacy) and then the devs looked for matching IPs or fingerprints. even if one was evaded the other would have caught them. there is no way he could have known of the methods that would be used as he was long gone by the time the second sock hunting phase was implemented. so even if he had tried to redeem numerous sock stakes, he would have been caught. that i can say with confidence. even the marketing team did not know that there would be a second round of sock hunting.

You are aware there's virtualization and TOR, right?

it wasnt just "decided" to start charging for stakes at the start. the rules for claiming a stake were laid out from day one and were not changed. the first 2 pages worth of comments got a free stake, and a trivial fee was charged from then on, incrementally growing every ten pages or so. it was also allowed that users acquire two stakes. one for them selves, and one for a family member so yes users did get multiple stakes, but only if rules were abided by.

It was just "DECIDED".  I saw NEM develop from the very beginning.  UtopianFuture changed the rules.

The excuse that Utopian "cheated" his way into stakes, even if was true, is a ridiculous notion because even if he did, he would have deserved them. he could just as easily have stuck around and gotten a lot more for running nem(he wasnt a coder). but he did the right thing by stepping down and we havnt seen him since.

He would have "DESERVED THEM" for cheating and lying to everybody?  Are you F(*#ING KIDDING ME?  DO YOU HAVE ANY GODDAMN MORALS?

Yeah, I'm TOTALLY SURE UtopianFuture has stepped down and isn't involved in NEM anymore.  Go tell that to some sucker who will believe it.  Do you really think you're fooling anyone?

frankly if that is the only FUD you can come up with, its a testament to how well nem has done.

also, if you are going to make accusations that Utopian has tons of illegitimate stakes, the onus of proof is on you. the only thing you can prove is that he had a few sock accounts. how ever there is no way possible for you to prove with any certainty that he was able to redeem them by jumping the gauntlet that was the sock removal phase.

The "onus of proof" is on ME?  Why should I believe anyone who supports liars and cheaters?  I'm sorry UtopianFuture took advantage of you and the ENTIRE NEM community, but when he decided to lie and cheat he destroyed all your investments and any credibility NEM ever had.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Of course there are good and honest crypto 2.0 projects in this space, but how to find them..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=942352.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.0


found.

I seriously hope you are joking.  NEM is a pathetic joke started by a known liar and a scammer.  What a bunch of hypocritical NEMwits.

that "pathetic joke" just released the first ever blockchain based fully decentralised multisig implementation. State of the art harveting(forging) technology which allows users to connect to a remote instance of the software and harvest using a cold storage account with out ever sending a private key or any sensitive data over the network, even the operator of the instance (of NIS) could be a known thief and the account you harvest on it with can not be compromised. combine this with multisig and you can lock down your coins in a cold storage multisig account and use that account to harvest on a thiefs NIS and your coins will be safe all while using them to harvest. and in the same way you can harvest safely on a thief's nis, you can also do transactions safely.

the proof is in the beta.

troll harder dude.

I'm not "trolling".  It's the TRUTH.  All you NEMwits are a bunch of goddamn hypocritical lying bastards.

I can guarantee you that UtopianFuture (and all his sockpuppets) have tons of illegitimate stakes.  Do you honestly expect people to believe that all of UtopianFuture's sockpuppet stakes have been taken away from him.  You NEMwits did that completely bogus "investigation" to uncover his stakes, but the TRUTH is that you have absolutely NO way of knowing how many stakes anyone has.

Initially, NEM was going to give away all the stakes for free, but then it was decided to start selling stakes.  That is BS because some people got MULTIPLE stakes for free and others bought them under the assumption that NEM had a "fair distribution".  What a joke.

yes he admitted to having socks. but the chances of him being able to claim them are slim to none due to the methods used for catching sock masters. inthe second round of sock removal, IP addresses and browser finger prints were logged (and then hashed or something for privacy) and then the devs looked for matching IPs or fingerprints. even if one was evaded the other would have caught them. there is no way he could have known of the methods that would be used as he was long gone by the time the second sock hunting phase was implemented. so even if he had tried to redeem numerous sock stakes, he would have been caught. that i can say with confidence. even the marketing team did not know that there would be a second round of sock hunting.

You are aware there's virtualization and TOR, right?

it wasnt just "decided" to start charging for stakes at the start. the rules for claiming a stake were laid out from day one and were not changed. the first 2 pages worth of comments got a free stake, and a trivial fee was charged from then on, incrementally growing every ten pages or so. it was also allowed that users acquire two stakes. one for them selves, and one for a family member so yes users did get multiple stakes, but only if rules were abided by.

It was just "DECIDED".  I saw NEM develop from the very beginning.  UtopianFuture changed the rules.

The excuse that Utopian "cheated" his way into stakes, even if was true, is a ridiculous notion because even if he did, he would have deserved them. he could just as easily have stuck around and gotten a lot more for running nem(he wasnt a coder). but he did the right thing by stepping down and we havnt seen him since.

He would have "DESERVED THEM" for cheating and lying to everybody?  Are you F(*#ING KIDDING ME?  DO YOU HAVE ANY GODDAMN MORALS?

Yeah, I'm TOTALLY SURE UtopianFuture has stepped down and isn't involved in NEM anymore.  Go tell that to some sucker who will believe it.  Do you really think you're fooling anyone?

frankly if that is the only FUD you can come up with, its a testament to how well nem has done.

also, if you are going to make accusations that Utopian has tons of illegitimate stakes, the onus of proof is on you. the only thing you can prove is that he had a few sock accounts. how ever there is no way possible for you to prove with any certainty that he was able to redeem them by jumping the gauntlet that was the sock removal phase.

The "onus of proof" is on ME?  Why should I believe anyone who supports liars and cheaters?  I'm sorry UtopianFuture took advantage of you and the ENTIRE NEM community, but when he decided to lie and cheat he destroyed all your investments and any credibility NEM ever had.

what i meant by "deserve them" is that if he hadnt of had sock accounts, and had not left, then for sure he would deserve many stakes for being the organizer of nem. of course i wouldnt not support funding someone who broke rules. he did far from destroy peoples investments. nem is now stronger than it was and is doing brilliantly well as can be seen by the beta client.

I wont discuss this anymore with an obvious troll. The market will decide who was right post-launch.

Why would he deserve multiple stakes just for founding NEM?  The WHOLE IDEA behind NEM was ONE PERSON, ONE STAKE.  PERIOD.

By supporting NEM, you are supporting a system that scammed the honest people who invested believing that NEM's distribution was based on ONE PERSON, ONE STAKE.  If you remember, the reason NEM started selling stakes was to fund development.  How is it fair that numerous individuals (not just UtopianFuture) claimed multiple stakes for free while others bought one stake believing UtopianFuture's lie?

He absolutely did destroy everyones' investment.  I AM A NEM STAKEHOLDER AND HE DESTROYED MY INVESTMENT.  I claimed my stake in the very beginning for free.  I'm ashamed to be a part of this ridiculous "New Economic Movement" charade.  Some of us still believe in being honest and fair.  I'd rather see my NEM investment go to ZERO than make money off lying to others.

[Zer0Sum]

Ripple?    Not holding my breath for something older than Bitcoin to somehow go viral..    
Ripple Labs (and their Stellar department) own like 95%+ of their coins and that allows them to manipulate and scam until the cows come home.

Yeah, I don't buy ANY Ripple volume numbers  
There are all kinds of people that can trade for free and rack up fake volume.

I spent a month trading on the Ripple platform in 2014... and paid no fees.

Beyond manipulated numbers...
Ripple is the most OPAQUE Gen 2.0 platform and will be bought out by a BANK.

NXT is by far the most open...
And the only ones trying to do something philosophically pure like Satoshi... to their financial detriment.

BTS is just trying to make money, anyway, anyhow, anywhere... JUST GIVE ME THE FUCKING MONEY, baby.

NuShares is trying to pawn off a Virtual Central Bank as an "innovation" (you can't make this up)...
And also totally manipulating volume... while steadily transferring wealth from "investors" to the principals.

And NEM does not belong in this conversation...
They forked a brilliantly designed and easily expandable NXT one year ago...
And have nothing to show for it except a primitive alpha client that could be done in one week or two.