Nubits vs Bitshares vs Bitbay

[altcoinUK]

Nubits, Bitshares and Bitbay all try to address the volatility issue of crypto currencies. What do you think, which one is the better concept/technics/method to tackle the volatility problem and why?

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[tokeweed]

is bitbay pegged to the USD?  also i heard there was something scammy going on behind it.  is this true?

[altcoinUK]

is bitbay pegged to the USD?  also i heard there was something scammy going on behind it.  is this true?

I think that's David Zimbeck's plan, to peg Bitbay to the USD.

And yes, Bitbay was the biggest scam of 2014 (and we witnessed a few) as we discussing that lengthy in this thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857457.0, but David's idea of pegging the coin could be one way to address the volatility problem, though I am not sure if it possible to address it at all.

[matt608]

From the founder for BitShares - http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/

View the collateral for the various BitShares market pegged assets:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

Also Bitshares doesn't just peg against the USD, it has Gold, Silver, Euros, Yuan to name a few.

[Piston Honda]

all crap

[newuser01]

all crap

This

pegs never work

[altcoinUK]

From the founder for BitShares - http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/

View the collateral for the various BitShares market pegged assets:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

Also Bitshares doesn't just peg against the USD, it has Gold, Silver, Euros, Yuan to name a few.

Yeah, but Daniel "bytemaster" Larimer admitted as well that Bitshares won't be able to do anything against the "Black swan events" and it seems to me the Bitshares pegging is unable to provide stability, i.e. if the Bitshares would have fall by 67% which is quite likely scenario then the whole Bitshares pegging would collapse (if I understood correctly).

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other one, I am just trying to figure out if that pegging concept could work at all.

[altcoinUK]

all crap

LoL

That's the short description what I was wondering that could be very well the case -  without understanding too much about their economics (if there is any).

Though, it would be great if the pegging could work.

[matt608]

From the founder for BitShares - http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/

View the collateral for the various BitShares market pegged assets:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

Also Bitshares doesn't just peg against the USD, it has Gold, Silver, Euros, Yuan to name a few.

Yeah, but Daniel "bytemaster" Larimer admitted as well that Bitshares won't be able to do anything against the "Black swan events" and it seems to me the Bitshares pegging is unable to provide stability, i.e. if the Bitshares would have fall by 67% which is quite likely scenario then the whole Bitshares pegging would collapse (if I understood correctly).

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other one, I am just trying to figure out if that pegging concept could work at all.

The BitShares price has already fallen from a high of almost 5 cents to 1 cent, that's an 80% decrease and the peg works fine.  The price has to crash massively in in the space of day or two, and crash worse than bitcoin has ever crashed, for the market pegged assets to become under-collateralised.  You can view the deviation from the price feed here:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/feeds?asset=USD

The peg will get tighter and tighter as liquidity increases and it already works well.

[altcoinUK]

From the founder for BitShares - http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/

View the collateral for the various BitShares market pegged assets:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

Also Bitshares doesn't just peg against the USD, it has Gold, Silver, Euros, Yuan to name a few.

Yeah, but Daniel "bytemaster" Larimer admitted as well that Bitshares won't be able to do anything against the "Black swan events" and it seems to me the Bitshares pegging is unable to provide stability, i.e. if the Bitshares would have fall by 67% which is quite likely scenario then the whole Bitshares pegging would collapse (if I understood correctly).

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other one, I am just trying to figure out if that pegging concept could work at all.

The BitShares price has already fallen from a high of almost 5 cents to 1 cent, that's an 80% decrease and the peg works fine.  The price has to crash massively in in the space of day or two, and crash worse than bitcoin has ever crashed, for the market pegged assets to become under-collateralised.  You can view the deviation from the price feed here:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/feeds?asset=USD

The peg will get tighter and tighter as liquidity increases and it already works well.

Thanks! That's what I needed that someone who understand the concept would give some info and then I will do more reading. Where are some white paper and tech info are available on bitshares? Their website talks about some exchange and it is hard to find there any tech info.

[chryspano]

Yeah, but Daniel "bytemaster" Larimer admitted as well that Bitshares won't be able to do anything against the "Black swan events" and it seems to me the Bitshares pegging is unable to provide stability, i.e. if the Bitshares would have fall by 67% which is quite likely scenario then the whole Bitshares pegging would collapse (if I understood correctly).

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other one, I am just trying to figure out if that pegging concept could work at all.

Are you refering to this? http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/27/BitAssets-and-Black-Swan-Events/
Here is a quote from the above link....

The Highly Improbable

By Wall Street standards, BitShares is extremely conservative in its ‘lending’ policies by only allowing users to borrow up to 33% of the value of their collateral. Most banks consider lending 80% the value of collateral to be conservative and often go almost to 100%. The loan is secure so long as the value of the collateral is greater than the amount borrowed.

In the case of BitShares we assumed the collateral (BTS) could easily be as volatile as Bitcoin on its worst days. On some days Bitcoin has lost 25% or more of its value. Recently Bitcoin lost 42% of its value over just 7 days and along with it so did almost all alt-coins. This level of movement is within the design tolerance of BitAssets, but did result in many short positions being margin called.

In order to break BitUSD the value of BitShares would have to fall by 67% in a market where no one was willing to sell enough BitUSD to allow all existing shorts to cover. For all practical purposes this fall would have to occur over just a few days, in thin markets, with no expectation for a rebound in value.

btw 

[StanLarimer]

And even in the case of such an improbable black swan, BitShares coverage degrades gracefully.  If the peg breaks, collateral is still divided fairly among holders.

So, as a financial instrument, BitAssets cover a whole lot of volatility.  Covering all volatility would be better, but you can't even do that if your collateral is a mortgage on a house.

The point is that an incorruptible block chain is enforcing the rules, not some crafty bankster who can get politicians to let them gamble with your money.

We are about at the maturity of the aerospace industry during the days of the Sopwith Camel.  

And there are still those who insist that man will never fly.

[matt608]

From the founder for BitShares - http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/

View the collateral for the various BitShares market pegged assets:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

Also Bitshares doesn't just peg against the USD, it has Gold, Silver, Euros, Yuan to name a few.

Yeah, but Daniel "bytemaster" Larimer admitted as well that Bitshares won't be able to do anything against the "Black swan events" and it seems to me the Bitshares pegging is unable to provide stability, i.e. if the Bitshares would have fall by 67% which is quite likely scenario then the whole Bitshares pegging would collapse (if I understood correctly).

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other one, I am just trying to figure out if that pegging concept could work at all.

The BitShares price has already fallen from a high of almost 5 cents to 1 cent, that's an 80% decrease and the peg works fine.  The price has to crash massively in in the space of day or two, and crash worse than bitcoin has ever crashed, for the market pegged assets to become under-collateralised.  You can view the deviation from the price feed here:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/feeds?asset=USD

The peg will get tighter and tighter as liquidity increases and it already works well.

Thanks! That's what I needed that someone who understand the concept would give some info and then I will do more reading. Where are some white paper and tech info are available on bitshares? Their website talks about some exchange and it is hard to find there any tech info.

From the website, there's the white paper:
http://docs.bitshares.org/

https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares - code

There's the bitshares 101 book, I'd imagine you could skip a lot of it though as it includes an introduction about bitcoin.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QUIWHR0/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00QUIWHR0&linkCode=as2&tag=succecounc-20&linkId=MIFK4YEQ5YUWI3Q3%22%3EBitShares

[altcoinUK]

OK, that sounds good and interesting. I thought probably the BitShares concept is the most sensible and it seems from the above posts that BitShares has the most following.

Let me read and understand what BitShares is all about.

[WhalingWhales]

I heard bitshares was managed like crypto communism, and i do not see it pegged to anything losing 700sat in a few days, Nubits whatever people say works and has held its ground. Bitbay will work imo from what i have read. At the moment the chicken dinner is awarded to the only pegged coin Nubits

[Este Nuno]

From the founder for BitShares - http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/

View the collateral for the various BitShares market pegged assets:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

Also Bitshares doesn't just peg against the USD, it has Gold, Silver, Euros, Yuan to name a few.

Yeah, but Daniel "bytemaster" Larimer admitted as well that Bitshares won't be able to do anything against the "Black swan events" and it seems to me the Bitshares pegging is unable to provide stability, i.e. if the Bitshares would have fall by 67% which is quite likely scenario then the whole Bitshares pegging would collapse (if I understood correctly).

Again, I am not saying one is better than the other one, I am just trying to figure out if that pegging concept could work at all.

The BitShares price has already fallen from a high of almost 5 cents to 1 cent, that's an 80% decrease and the peg works fine.  The price has to crash massively in in the space of day or two, and crash worse than bitcoin has ever crashed, for the market pegged assets to become under-collateralised.  You can view the deviation from the price feed here:
http://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/feeds?asset=USD

The peg will get tighter and tighter as liquidity increases and it already works well.

Does it work in a way that if BTS starts to crash, people holding bitUSD would be incentivized to buy BTS to prevent a margin call/liquidation event? And conversely, are there any incentives for people to dump their BTS during this time to somehow take advantage of that event? People shorting BTS only maybe? 

[altcoinUK]

I heard bitshares was managed like crypto communism, and i do not see it pegged to anything losing 700sat in a few days, Nubits whatever people say works and has held its ground. Bitbay will work imo from what i have read. At the moment the chicken dinner is awarded to the only pegged coin Nubits

I can't claim too much expertise in BitShares after 10 minutes reading, but it seems to me from what I have read that you are mixing bitUSD with BitShares. bitUSD is pedged to the USD. It is pedged by shorting it against BitShares, so BitShares could be volatile, but bitUSD value remains stable - which is quite stable, it has been indeed very close to the 1 USD price.

[StanLarimer]

Bytemaster covered these questions in pretty good detail here:

BitAssets and Black Swan Events

Bottom line:  BitShares are volatile like Bitcoin and generally follow its ups and downs.  BitAssets damp out most of this volatility, and depending on the depth of the market can track their pegs within a percent or so.  Pegs will tighten as the market grows.

[StanLarimer]

I heard bitshares was managed like crypto communism, and i do not see it pegged to anything losing 700sat in a few days, Nubits whatever people say works and has held its ground. Bitbay will work imo from what i have read. At the moment the chicken dinner is awarded to the only pegged coin Nubits

BitShares is managed like a company.
Stakeholders elect 101 members of the "board of directors" (delegates) to run it.
They get one vote per share, not one vote per shareholder.

This is about as capitalist as you can get.

So, unless you think that your ordinary standard company form of government is communist, you can see how silly that claim is.

Apparently the individual who has been making that claim has his definitional wires crossed.  He believes you have to have one vote per shareholder not one vote per share to avoid being "communist".

Clearly that won't work for a company.  What investor is going to put in, say, $50 million to fund the company if a bunch of other people can invest 5 cents each and get a bigger say in how it's run?

Company control must be proportional to stake at risk or no investors would ever agree to participate.

[StanLarimer]

all crap

LoL

That's the short description what I was wondering that could be very well the case -  without understanding too much about their economics (if there is any).

Though, it would be great if the pegging could work.

What are Market Pegged Assets?

How To Short and Cover a BitAsset