Petition to get rid of or fix the default trust system

[BG4]

This is a piece of wood on Tecshares file server....... Is this a match??   to woodcollector and  Essimo


Tecshare           http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tecshare.com%2Fimg%2Fwoodback.JPG
Tecshare           http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cashink.com%2Ftecshare%2Fimg%2Fdaleks.JPG
Essimo             http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhqpYcT6.jpg
Woodcollector    http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fiuj4u3G.jpg
WC from /reddit  http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwXo1n30.jpg

Random internet Photo for comparison
                       http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inklingsnews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2Fdog2.jpg

OMG, you proved it! You proved we both use one of the most popular Canon cameras ever! Clearly 2 separate people could never use the same model camera!

So .. you are confirming... out of the 4 names.. there is actually 2 people behind them.....

[1715344559]

1715344559

[1715344559]

1715344559

[1715344559]

1715344559

[alani123]

I'll have to point out that the exif dumps of those pictures share astonishing similarities. The fact that the same software was used to edit them makes things even worse.

[FFrankie]

I really like the trust system, without it, I probably would have been scammed 99% of the time that I did transactions. Sure there are some flaws, but nothing is perfect.  But after reading, I did not see anything you suggest to replace this "failed" system in your mind.

[hilariousandco]

I really like the trust system, without it, I probably would have been scammed 99% of the time that I did transactions. Sure there are some flaws, but nothing is perfect.  But after reading, I did not see anything you suggest to replace this "failed" system in your mind.

It's not perfect but it's good enough and it usually only "fails" scammers when they get caught out, they then whinge about how broken it is when it's actually proven to work pretty well in their cases.

[WoodCollector]

Thanks CITM for todays daily update.

UPDATE 2: CITM tries to argue that there is no problem with the default trust system by demonstrating he too can abuse the default trust system by leaving me a negative feedback rating for 1,000BTC when i have never done a single transaction with him.

You guys are making this too easy. 

[Jookly]

Imagine...

An artist so prolific and skilled everyone should be able to recognize him immediately, yet he is afraid to say who he is... 

A man who runs a wood carving business that makes lots of money and doesn't have time to waste, yet spends hours on the computer every day defending his reputation on a forum completely irrelevant to his trade. 

I think YOU are the one that makes it too easy.

by the way those videos were fucking hilariously bad, you look like a child using a chisel for the first time.  I think you know exactly how shitty they were and I think that was part of the point.  I think you like to point out that it doesn't matter how obvious or stupid your scam is.  You are going to keep doing it no matter what and there is always going to be someone dumb enough to buy it.  It sucks that people like you exist but in the end it doesn't matter because the only people you are able to trick with your "art" are people that have deep pockets and no knowledge that they are getting ripped off.  Honestly anyone that bought that garbage deserved it.

this is really entertaining though so please continue.

[WoodCollector]

Imagine...

An artist so prolific and skilled everyone should be able to recognize him immediately, yet he is afraid to say who he is... 

A man who runs a wood carving business that makes lots of money and doesn't have time to waste, yet spends hours on the computer every day defending his reputation on a forum completely irrelevant to his trade. 

I think YOU are the one that makes it too easy.

by the way those videos were fucking hilariously bad, you look like a child using a chisel for the first time.  I think you know exactly how shitty they were and I think that was part of the point.  I think you like to point out that it doesn't matter how obvious or stupid your scam is.  You are going to keep doing it no matter what and there is always going to be someone dumb enough to buy it.  It sucks that people like you exist but in the end it doesn't matter because the only people you are able to trick with your "art" are people that have deep pockets and no knowledge that they are getting ripped off.  Honestly anyone that bought that garbage deserved it.

this is really entertaining though so please continue.

Imagine......

There is no fear of saying who i am, it is just simply that i choose not to associate my RL identity with my bitcoin one. Which is now for pretty obvious reasons.

In the weeks since the charade of Nubbins and Co. started i have spent less than a dozen hours online.

Lastly, your opinions of some videos really hold no weight as far as i am concerned, i would be willing to bet that although you will probably try and argue it, you have never picked up a mallet and chisel in your entire life and tried to carve on a piece of birch. Therefore you have no idea what it should "look like"

Closing, this thread is not about me, although it seems i am quite famous now, and appreciate all the free marketing. This thread is about the faults in the default trust system. greatly demonstrated by CITM with his false 1,000BTC feedback, and nubbins by his lack of better judgment, and well by just about everyone else on the list. 

[ElectricMucus]

This is a piece of wood on Tecshares file server....... Is this a match??   to woodcollector and  Essimo


Tecshare           http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tecshare.com%2Fimg%2Fwoodback.JPG
Tecshare           http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cashink.com%2Ftecshare%2Fimg%2Fdaleks.JPG
Essimo             http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FhqpYcT6.jpg
Woodcollector    http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fiuj4u3G.jpg
WC from /reddit  http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwXo1n30.jpg

Random internet Photo for comparison
                       http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inklingsnews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2Fdog2.jpg




http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LDcSSRC_KOwJ:www.cashink.com/tecshare/img/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


LETS toss Soda Wars into the Sock Drawer

http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIiBZfWB.jpg
http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fu2D1jPn.jpg
http://metapicz.com/#landing?imgsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F37qAyOZ.jpg

Try this, you can prove within a high amount of certainty that it actually the same camera.
The more images you have the less statistical margin for error.

http://33bits.org/2011/09/19/digital-camera-fingerprinting/

[Jookly]

Imagine...

An artist so prolific and skilled everyone should be able to recognize him immediately, yet he is afraid to say who he is... 

A man who runs a wood carving business that makes lots of money and doesn't have time to waste, yet spends hours on the computer every day defending his reputation on a forum completely irrelevant to his trade. 

I think YOU are the one that makes it too easy.

by the way those videos were fucking hilariously bad, you look like a child using a chisel for the first time.  I think you know exactly how shitty they were and I think that was part of the point.  I think you like to point out that it doesn't matter how obvious or stupid your scam is.  You are going to keep doing it no matter what and there is always going to be someone dumb enough to buy it.  It sucks that people like you exist but in the end it doesn't matter because the only people you are able to trick with your "art" are people that have deep pockets and no knowledge that they are getting ripped off.  Honestly anyone that bought that garbage deserved it.

this is really entertaining though so please continue.

Imagine......

There is no fear of saying who i am, it is just simply that i choose not to associate my RL identity with my bitcoin one. Which is now for pretty obvious reasons.

In the weeks since the charade of Nubbins and Co. started i have spent less than a dozen hours online.

Lastly, your opinions of some videos really hold no weight as far as i am concerned, i would be willing to bet that although you will probably try and argue it, you have never picked up a mallet and chisel in your entire life and tried to carve on a piece of birch. Therefore you have no idea what it should "look like"

Closing, this thread is not about me, although it seems i am quite famous now, and appreciate all the free marketing. This thread is about the faults in the default trust system. greatly demonstrated by CITM with his false 1,000BTC feedback, and nubbins by his lack of better judgment, and well by just about everyone else on the list. 

lol. No.

[smoothie]

Imagine...

An artist so prolific and skilled everyone should be able to recognize him immediately, yet he is afraid to say who he is...  

A man who runs a wood carving business that makes lots of money and doesn't have time to waste, yet spends hours on the computer every day defending his reputation on a forum completely irrelevant to his trade.  

I think YOU are the one that makes it too easy.

by the way those videos were fucking hilariously bad, you look like a child using a chisel for the first time.  I think you know exactly how shitty they were and I think that was part of the point.  I think you like to point out that it doesn't matter how obvious or stupid your scam is.  You are going to keep doing it no matter what and there is always going to be someone dumb enough to buy it.  It sucks that people like you exist but in the end it doesn't matter because the only people you are able to trick with your "art" are people that have deep pockets and no knowledge that they are getting ripped off.  Honestly anyone that bought that garbage deserved it.

this is really entertaining though so please continue.

Imagine......

There is no fear of saying who i am, it is just simply that i choose not to associate my RL identity with my bitcoin one. Which is now for pretty obvious reasons.

In the weeks since the charade of Nubbins and Co. started i have spent less than a dozen hours online.

Lastly, your opinions of some videos really hold no weight as far as i am concerned, i would be willing to bet that although you will probably try and argue it, you have never picked up a mallet and chisel in your entire life and tried to carve on a piece of birch. Therefore you have no idea what it should "look like"

Closing, this thread is not about me, although it seems i am quite famous now, and appreciate all the free marketing. This thread is about the faults in the default trust system. greatly demonstrated by CITM with his false 1,000BTC feedback, and nubbins by his lack of better judgment, and well by just about everyone else on the list.  

Sorry sir but you are a coward and a chicken.

You should have no problem associating your personal identity if your work is so well known/respected and you are what and who you say you are as a master wood carver.

So funny to see you run away from that challenge.

Look my personal identity is know on these forums so I can call you out on this.

Please put up or just stfu. Thanks!

[WoodCollector]

http://33bits.org/2011/09/19/digital-camera-fingerprinting/

Lord, i almost have to feel sorry for all of you, its so pathetic. You spend hundreds, some of you thousands of hours fighting for your virtual popularity. Seeking the approval of other virtual persons and all it takes is one man, willing to poke the hornets nest, to call you all on your antics, the pathetic campaign for virtual approval and every single one of you has to rise up to try and defend your positions. You have to spend even more hundreds of hours trying to defend your points. All the while really only proving that most everything that i, the guy poking the hornets nest have said is completely true.

Lets recap.

I point out an obvious but not often discussed problem. The default trust system is faulted in several ways. Took me less than an hour to do that.

then, the people threatened by losing their virtual popularity start another smear campaign. Not actually arguing the fact that the default trust system is broken, because they really cant. But instead trying to use the byproduct of their past smear campaign as the basis for what i stated, which is obvious fact as to attest to the faults in the system further starting another smear campaign to distract from the facts.

Then, Canary In The Mine goes and PROVES BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the system is seriously flawed by abusing the system to leave negative feedback for 1,000BTC which is a transaction i never had with him.


Then, Nubbins, CITM, Smoothie, BG4, Hillariousandco, and pretty much every one else who stands to lose their virtual popularity points that they have gamed so hard to get make further attempts at trying to discredit the person, not the facts that the system is broken. further proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the system is broken.

Then, as time progresses, and i poke the hornets nest even more, these predictable little kids will further prove the faults in the system in their attempt at retaliation as such they have already done with TecShare and UKcrypto and pretty much anyone else who dared to stand up to them and call a dog a dog when it barks like a dog.


Please to all of you children, continue as you have. i know that you are so naive that you think you are actually making a case in your favor and i am perfectly ok with your disillusion. All it is doing for the rest of us is helping to build the case against your lifeblood and beloved "look at us we have cool green numbers next to our name" crowd. You can argue the semantics of your last escapade all you want, until CITM and a few of you misfits wanted to compile onto the list, after your last escapade my trust went from -618 down to -4 after people realized what idiots you were. i am rather assured that even though most dont want to get involved because they dont want those little red comments from the kid brigade that you are so willing to give if they publicly tell you what idiots you are, they are still behind me as i get told in the PM's almost every day and from the few who are brave enough to leave feedback. 

You may now carry on. please dont let me stop you, i'll be back to poke the hornets nest a little later again to see what else i can shake out of you to further prove my case.

[TECSHARE]

I'll have to point out that the exif dumps of those pictures share astonishing similarities. The fact that the same software was used to edit them makes things even worse.

Or it could just be that Adobe CS3 is also very popular. So now we have proof that 2 users had the same extremely popular camera and also used extremely popular photo editing software. ROCK SOLID!

[ElectricMucus]

Lord, i almost have to feel sorry for all of you, its so pathetic. You spend hundreds, some of you thousands of hours fighting for your virtual popularity. Seeking the approval of other virtual persons and all it takes is one man, willing to poke the hornets nest, to call you all on your antics, the pathetic campaign for virtual approval and every single one of you has to rise up to try and defend your positions. You have to spend even more hundreds of hours trying to defend your points. All the while really only proving that most everything that i, the guy poking the hornets nest have said is completely true.

...

tl;dr

I'm not really interested in what you are raving about, I'm mainly here to laugh at you.
But let me tell you this: The reason not to do "business" here is not the lackluster reputation system but the toxic "community" here. This is because the melange of political delusion and Internet tough guy attitude. And you are a prime example.

[Jookly]

I don't give a shit about the trust system or this forum for that matter. I just think it's funny to watch you try to defend your little operation.  It's hilarious.

[iglasses]

WC it doesn't matter anymore if you buy your stuff off the shelf at Walmart or carve it with your teeth like a fucking beaver...you are a total fucking nutbar.

[SaltySpitoon]

So I did read your wall of text, and let me respond with my own.

Well, first off. If Bitcointalk has a major sway on Bitcoin itself, then there is a more serious issue here than default trust. If a peer to peer decentralized currency depends on the existance of a privately owned forum, then it would be best for Bitcoin to die now, rather than later when there is more money involved.

I found a few issues, your first major issue seems to be that you aren't seperating the economy sections from the rest of the forum. Your trust rating doesn't follow you around everywhere, just where its relevant. There have been plenty of longterm scammers who have stuck around and continued to use the knowledgebase. As long as they stayed out of the marketplace sections, it doesn't matter that much. If you wanted to argue the point, its that buying/selling things has become a video game. But if you go into any of the general sections, no one cares about your trust. My point being, that the social gathering side is seperate from the financial side of the site. You by your own admission haven't been here very long. A good portion of us have been here since the old scammer tag system. It was so heavily asked for that there be a feedback system, that the current system we have today was created. The whole point of default trust isn't to create a popularity or leverage system, its to create a system where people who give accurate feedback can be noted so that newbies take their feedback a little bit more serious than someone's sockpuppet empire. The way it was designed was to protect newbies, not the gullible or stupid. People were supposed to create their own trust lists after figuring out how things worked around here, and the default trust list was to help people not used to Bitcoin's nature not get scammed in their first 10 minutes here.

That said, this and the 50 other threads asking for someone to be removed is proof that the system works. If someone leaves unfair feedback, they are either removed from the default trust list, or if they are left on, people just begin to disregard their feedback. By natural order, that person is then eventually removed anyway. You think that Nubbin's feedback of you is unfair, and if it is, those that added Nubbin's to their trustlist who put him on default trust will make the decision to remove him if his feedback is no longer accurate enough to remain on default trust. If they don't, then people begin to disregard their opinon of who is trustworth to leave others feedback, and an entire branch of the trust system is pruned.

Until we can change the nature of anonymous nonrefundable transactions, some sort of feedback system has to be in place. It has to be resistant against people with multiple accounts, and it has to be able to evolve constantly to warn people of new threats. Is the default trust system perfect, nope. But Theymos has demonstrated time and time again that he is all ears if you have any suggestions, just keep my other points in mind when you are proposing fixes. That said, from my perspective, you are a scammer. I don't know where the 1000 BTC risked came from in your negative feedback, which I suppose is the only questional aspect of it all, but all that means to me is that if we were to ever trade, I'd insist on using escrow. While it would be lovely for you to resolve your pending disputes, I don't really have any judgements.

Good luck with your new forums.

[cshelswell]

Very well said. I think it works great. People can look at a users feedback and decide whether they still want to do business with them. The red flag is really helpful to that as well.

[hilariousandco]

Then, Nubbins, CITM, Smoothie, BG4, Hillariousandco, and pretty much every one else who stands to lose their virtual popularity points that they have gamed so hard to get make further attempts at trying to discredit the person, not the facts that the system is broken. further proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the system is broken.

Then, as time progresses, and i poke the hornets nest even more, these predictable little kids will further prove the faults in the system in their attempt at retaliation as such they have already done with TecShare and UKcrypto and pretty much anyone else who dared to stand up to them and call a dog a dog when it barks like a dog.

You've been listening to Techshare's bullshit rhetoric for too long and have taken exactly the same route as him. Funny how the feedback system is perfectly fine whilst it suits you and you're happily collecting those nice green virtual popularity points and we don't hear a peep from you about it, but the moment someone scams or abuses it or is revealed as a fraud, well, you cry hysterically and make it your life goal to try bring it down whilst inventing conspiracy and lies to suit your agenda. I don't think most of us would even care if the feedback system was removed completely. The only thing I care about though is then there will be no system in place for calling out scammers like you to stop newbies from being robbed blind. You're nothing but a childish amateur woodworker fantasist and it's mind blowing that you're trying to keep up this facade of lies which nobody but a fool would buy. You're either a troll or an idiot if you think people will buy your bullshit here. Just leave or shut up because you're not going to achieve anything apart from joining the ranks of crazies like tecshare who nobody has an ounce of respect for anymore.

[fonenumba]

Then, Nubbins, CITM, Smoothie, BG4, Hillariousandco, and pretty much every one else who stands to lose their virtual popularity points that they have gamed so hard to get make further attempts at trying to discredit the person, not the facts that the system is broken. further proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the system is broken.

Then, as time progresses, and i poke the hornets nest even more, these predictable little kids will further prove the faults in the system in their attempt at retaliation as such they have already done with TecShare and UKcrypto and pretty much anyone else who dared to stand up to them and call a dog a dog when it barks like a dog.

You've been listening to Techshare's bullshit rhetoric for too long and have taken exactly the same route as him. Funny how the feedback system is perfectly fine whilst it suits you and you're happily collecting those nice green virtual popularity points and we don't hear a peep from you about it, but the moment someone scams or abuses it or is revealed as a fraud, well, you cry hysterically and make it your life goal to try bring it down whilst inventing conspiracy and lies to suit your agenda. I don't think most of us would even care if the feedback system was removed completely. The only thing I care about though is then there will be no system in place for calling out scammers like you to stop newbies from being robbed blind. You're nothing but a childish amateur woodworker fantasist and it's mind blowing that you're trying to keep up this facade of lies which nobody but a fool would buy. You're either a troll or an idiot if you think people will buy your bullshit here. Just leave or shut up because you're not going to achieve anything apart from joining the ranks of crazies like tecshare who nobody has an ounce of respect for anymore.

The writing style as well as rationale sound very much like Techshare so I would infer that there is a possibility that Techshare purchased this account to push his agenda

[hilariousandco]

The writing style as well as rationale sound very much like Techshare so I would infer that there is a possibility that Techshare purchased this account to push his agenda

I'm sceptical of that but I don't doubt they're now collaborating behind the scenes to try 'take down the system'  . Though they have become more alike in style and argument. Tecshare also was suspicioulsy absent yesterday morn whilst WoodCollector was doing his babbling. I really hope they do create their own forum though. Having them two as admins would certainly be interesting, but I suspect this fantasy forum is yet more lies from WC.