Collecting BTC equivalent to collecting Real Coins of Historic Value?

[CIYAM]

Here is a suggestion as to how one might be able to artificially create "collectable" coins (well addresses actually) that could have their BTC value (well most of it in order to preserve the address from being pruned I guess) transferred and yet allow the receiving address to become even more valuable.

How would such a thing be possible?

Step 1) Create a vanity address that starts with 12coo1 (for example).

Step 2) For a premium over an agreed amount then owner of the "original" l12coo1 address will send the agreed amount to yours (making sure a small amount is retained in the original address to prevent it later being pruned).

Although your 12coo1 address is not the original it could be now considered "cooler" as it was the first 12coo1 address to receive coins from the original 12coo1 address (of course verifiable via the blockchain).

So now another user generates a 12coo1 address and (for a premium of course) you send coins from your 12coo1 address to theirs. Now the 3rd persons coins can be considered even more valuable as they are the 3rd in an unbroken chain of "cool" transactions to unique "cool" addresses (tracing back to the original usage of a 12coo1 address).

 

(P.S. I really do own the first and so far only used 12coo1 address - added another 0.02 BTC to show it - so am now waiting for offers from other 12coo1 creators)

[unclemantis]

Here is a suggestion as to how one might be able to artificially create "collectable" coins (well addresses actually) that could have their BTC value (well most of it in order to preserve the address from being pruned I guess) transferred and yet allow the receiving address to become even more valuable.

How would such a thing be possible?

Step 1) Create a vanity address that starts with 12coo1 (for example).

Step 2) For a premium over an agreed amount then owner of the "original" l12coo1 address will send the agreed amount to yours (making sure a small amount is retained in the original address to prevent it later being pruned).

Although your 12coo1 address is not the original it could be now considered "cooler" as it was the first 12coo1 address to receive coins from the original 12coo1 address (of course verifiable via the blockchain).

So now another user generates a 12coo1 address and (for a premium of course) you send coins from your 12coo1 address to theirs. Now the 3rd persons coins can be considered even more valuable as they are the 3rd in an unbroken chain of "cool" transactions to unique "cool" addresses (tracing back to the original usage of a 12coo1 address).

 

(P.S. I really do own the first and so far only used 12coo1 address - added another 0.02 BTC to show it - so am now waiting for offers from other 12coo1 creators)

Does having a deposit from a non 12coo1 address tarnish the pedigree in any way?

[unclemantis]

That vanitygen only took a few minutes on a CPU to generate.

So what is to prevent someone from INFLATING the collect-ability of the chain?

I could very well let my computer run all day long and I would probably have hundreds of 12coo1 addresses which I could just continue to fund over and over for a few days and end up at the end with a nice long chain.

Would the difficulty level of creating the vanity addresses need to be a part in the collect-ability of it to? The uniqueness of the IP address? Etc?

[ripper234]

Related thread: Want to buy - the world's first 25 BTC block

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

Also, thread from 2011 discussing value of special "pizza" coins and such:

Certain Bitcoins worth more than others?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36020.0

[unclemantis]

Related thread: Want to buy - the world's first 25 BTC block

Things could get very interesting.

Ripper234 As you can see there are a few people interested in the collectibility of Bitcoin. You game to help figure out how to make them collectable?

[unclemantis]

OMG are you freaking kidding me!?

http://www.bitcoincollector.com/ IS TAKEN!!!!!

I do hope it is a Bitcoin person and not some namesquater!

[unclemantis]

AND THEY ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WITH IT AND HAVE HAD IT SINCE LAST YEAR!

Registration Service Provider:
      Hostopia.com Inc, d/b/a Aplus.net
      +1.8772758763
     

   Registrant:
      bitcoincollector.com
      Bitcoin Collector
      123 General Delivery
      Victoria, BC A9A 9A9
      CA
      Phone: +250.0000000
      Email:

   Domain Name: bitcoincollector.com

   Administrative Contact:
      bitcoincollector.com
      Bitcoin Collector
      123 General Delivery
      Victoria, BC A9A 9A9
      CA
      Phone: +250.0000000
      Email:

   Technical  Contact:
      bitcoincollector.com
      Bitcoin Collector
      123 General Delivery
      Victoria, BC A9A 9A9
      CA
      Phone: +250.0000000
      Email:

   Registrar of Record:
      Hostopia.com Inc. d/b/a Aplus.net, www.aplus.net
      Record last updated on 2012-06-16
      Record expires on 2013-06-12
      Record created on 2011-06-12
 
   Domain servers in listed order:
      ns2.renewyourname.aplus.net
      ns1.renewyourname.aplus.net

Register your domain name at http://www.aplus.net

[unclemantis]

http://www.aplus.net/ not found!

OK. Now I am really pissed off

[ripper234]

Related thread: Want to buy - the world's first 25 BTC block

Things could get very interesting.

Ripper234 As you can see there are a few people interested in the collectibility of Bitcoin. You game to help figure out how to make them collectable?

I thought about it ... I think a site like BlockExplorer / My Wallet would be fitted to conducting this collection & auction.
Not sure if there are enough collectibles to warrant coding for this, don't have time for it anyway

[Phinnaeus Gage]

http://www.aplus.net/ not found!

OK. Now I am really pissed off

Never fear! Bruno's here. I sent you a PM, giving you a domain name idea.

~Bruno~

[bg002h]

Untainted coins a probably worth a little more.  Virgin coins fresh from mining are worth more.

In order to have a mint coin you need to have been a miner that solved the block.

Would all 50 coins need to be sold in order for them to stay in tact to the next owner? I am guessing 50 coins is worth a lot more than 49.99999999 coins?

I long ago spent/sold/mixed my few 50-coin blocks unfortunately

Apparently though - the Eligius pool pays out in a special transaction type so that you can get fractional 'virginal' coins.
I don't really understand how that works - but in the armory client at least, the eligius payouts show up with a 'pick' icon to indicate this.

...Luke-jr is a pretty smart dude.

[unclemantis]

Looks like I got a little fan club started

[sc00bysnax]

If I were to answer whether "Collecting BTC equivalent to collecting Real Coins of Historic Value?" I would say no.

Reason being real coins are considered antiques because time is a variable that effects real coins and not a bitcoin.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin and although some might have been around longer making them older it doesnt change any property of the bitcoin. Physical coins get new mints and what not, they change, different just about every year, thus making the ones that are less in or even out of circulation more valuable to a collector.

I mean I guess in theory you could have a bitcoin collector but what are you paying for? Say you could put two bitcoins in your hand, one old and one brand new. There wouldnt be a single difference because every bit coin old or new is exactly same as each bitcoin.

Its part of what makes a digital currency a digital currency right?

EDIT: I also thought that something that depends on the collectible-ness of something is its condition. The condition of a physical coin can change where as a bitcoins can not. Without that factor you could even say that bitcoins cant be considered collectible. I mean, even if you collect 100 pennies that were made from the exact same mint in the exact same year they wouldnt all be the same because there condition would almost always be different from one another even if it be the slightest nick or chip not visible by the human eye. You collect 100 bitcoins and there all exactly the same. Really the age of the coin is just like a historical record saying the coin is older but doesnt make the coin any different. Your not really collecting, just paying to say you have an older coin.

[aq]

A 50BTC casascius coin that was mined and not "loaded" could probably count as collectible.

[unclemantis]

If I were to answer whether "Collecting BTC equivalent to collecting Real Coins of Historic Value?" I would say no.

Reason being real coins are considered antiques because time is a variable that effects real coins and not a bitcoin.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin and although some might have been around longer making them older it doesnt change any property of the bitcoin. Physical coins get new mints and what not, they change, different just about every year, thus making the ones that are less in or even out of circulation more valuable to a collector.

I mean I guess in theory you could have a bitcoin collector but what are you paying for? Say you could put two bitcoins in your hand, one old and one brand new. There wouldnt be a single difference because every bit coin old or new is exactly same as each bitcoin.

Its part of what makes a digital currency a digital currency right?

Maybe we could assign value to the bitcoin based on a few factors.

Say you have a factory and it makes t-shirts. Lots and lots of t-shirts.

The value of each t-shirt is worth 1btc

Now say Elvis wears a t-shirt and gives it to a fan. It is still a 1btc t-shirt but.... it was worn by ELVIS! I will give you 5btc for that t-shirt!

Same thing as bitcoin. A btc is a btc. But, maybe they HISTORY associated with that bitcoin or that TRANSACTION is of significance. Or perhaps a private address that was funded by another address where you KNOW that address is linked to, say Satoshi. That would mean a lot of value to.

Thoughts?

[sc00bysnax]

If I were to answer whether "Collecting BTC equivalent to collecting Real Coins of Historic Value?" I would say no.

Reason being real coins are considered antiques because time is a variable that effects real coins and not a bitcoin.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin and although some might have been around longer making them older it doesnt change any property of the bitcoin. Physical coins get new mints and what not, they change, different just about every year, thus making the ones that are less in or even out of circulation more valuable to a collector.

I mean I guess in theory you could have a bitcoin collector but what are you paying for? Say you could put two bitcoins in your hand, one old and one brand new. There wouldnt be a single difference because every bit coin old or new is exactly same as each bitcoin.

Its part of what makes a digital currency a digital currency right?

Maybe we could assign value to the bitcoin based on a few factors.

Say you have a factory and it makes t-shirts. Lots and lots of t-shirts.

The value of each t-shirt is worth 1btc

Now say Elvis wears a t-shirt and gives it to a fan. It is still a 1btc t-shirt but.... it was worn by ELVIS! I will give you 5btc for that t-shirt!

Same thing as bitcoin. A btc is a btc. But, maybe they HISTORY associated with that bitcoin or that TRANSACTION is of significance. Or perhaps a private address that was funded by another address where you KNOW that address is linked to, say Satoshi. That would mean a lot of value to.

Thoughts?

But how do you assign factors like that to such an anonymous currency? And to prove you elvis did give you his bitcoin then you would have to make the currency not so anonymous anymore kinda defeating the purpose of bitcoin right? But hey, I guess you could do it!  

EDIT: now that I start to think about it more, you would have to go to alot of trouble too apply certain factors like the one you mentioned to bitcoins. I mean, how can you associate somebody buying a bitcoin? With elvis wearing you t shirt its provable. Take a picture of him wearing it, hell, if you can get him to wear it get him to sign it. How do you plan on getting someone to sign your bitcoin?

[unclemantis]

If I were to answer whether "Collecting BTC equivalent to collecting Real Coins of Historic Value?" I would say no.

Reason being real coins are considered antiques because time is a variable that effects real coins and not a bitcoin.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin and although some might have been around longer making them older it doesnt change any property of the bitcoin. Physical coins get new mints and what not, they change, different just about every year, thus making the ones that are less in or even out of circulation more valuable to a collector.

I mean I guess in theory you could have a bitcoin collector but what are you paying for? Say you could put two bitcoins in your hand, one old and one brand new. There wouldnt be a single difference because every bit coin old or new is exactly same as each bitcoin.

Its part of what makes a digital currency a digital currency right?

Maybe we could assign value to the bitcoin based on a few factors.

Say you have a factory and it makes t-shirts. Lots and lots of t-shirts.

The value of each t-shirt is worth 1btc

Now say Elvis wears a t-shirt and gives it to a fan. It is still a 1btc t-shirt but.... it was worn by ELVIS! I will give you 5btc for that t-shirt!

Same thing as bitcoin. A btc is a btc. But, maybe they HISTORY associated with that bitcoin or that TRANSACTION is of significance. Or perhaps a private address that was funded by another address where you KNOW that address is linked to, say Satoshi. That would mean a lot of value to.

Thoughts?

But how do you assign factors like that to such an anonymous currency? And to prove you elvis did give you his bitcoin then you would have to make the currency not so anonymous anymore kinda defeating the purpose of bitcoin right? But hey, I guess you could do it! 

Anonymity only goes so far. The anonymous nature of a bitcoin goes out the window once it is traded.

Take the market places for example. Joe Shmoe wants to trade some bitcoin. Well then! All he needs to do is send btc to a mtgox address linked to HIS account and then place an order. Well now we know that these coins that mtgox has in their hot little hands belong to Joe Shmoe. Well now someone wants to buy bitcoin and the system fullfils it. Sends this new guy some coins that Joe has deposited. Now if you want to look at any coin that you have gotten from MtGox you can trace back the transactions to beyond MtGox and then you can use that as a starting point to see what other addresses funded that origional address before it was sent off to MtGox.

It could take a little time and effort but I betcha you could end up linking the coin you have with a real person.

Bitcoin is anonymous. The people that are attached to the transactions are NOT.

Sure someone could use a disposable address and only use it once, but give it time and someone will mess up. It is all public knowledge.

[sc00bysnax]

If I were to answer whether "Collecting BTC equivalent to collecting Real Coins of Historic Value?" I would say no.

Reason being real coins are considered antiques because time is a variable that effects real coins and not a bitcoin.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin and although some might have been around longer making them older it doesnt change any property of the bitcoin. Physical coins get new mints and what not, they change, different just about every year, thus making the ones that are less in or even out of circulation more valuable to a collector.

I mean I guess in theory you could have a bitcoin collector but what are you paying for? Say you could put two bitcoins in your hand, one old and one brand new. There wouldnt be a single difference because every bit coin old or new is exactly same as each bitcoin.

Its part of what makes a digital currency a digital currency right?

Maybe we could assign value to the bitcoin based on a few factors.

Say you have a factory and it makes t-shirts. Lots and lots of t-shirts.

The value of each t-shirt is worth 1btc

Now say Elvis wears a t-shirt and gives it to a fan. It is still a 1btc t-shirt but.... it was worn by ELVIS! I will give you 5btc for that t-shirt!

Same thing as bitcoin. A btc is a btc. But, maybe they HISTORY associated with that bitcoin or that TRANSACTION is of significance. Or perhaps a private address that was funded by another address where you KNOW that address is linked to, say Satoshi. That would mean a lot of value to.

Thoughts?

But how do you assign factors like that to such an anonymous currency? And to prove you elvis did give you his bitcoin then you would have to make the currency not so anonymous anymore kinda defeating the purpose of bitcoin right? But hey, I guess you could do it!  

Anonymity only goes so far. The anonymous nature of a bitcoin goes out the window once it is traded.

Take the market places for example. Joe Shmoe wants to trade some bitcoin. Well then! All he needs to do is send btc to a mtgox address linked to HIS account and then place an order. Well now we know that these coins that mtgox has in their hot little hands belong to Joe Shmoe. Well now someone wants to buy bitcoin and the system fullfils it. Sends this new guy some coins that Joe has deposited. Now if you want to look at any coin that you have gotten from MtGox you can trace back the transactions to beyond MtGox and then you can use that as a starting point to see what other addresses funded that origional address before it was sent off to MtGox.

It could take a little time and effort but I betcha you could end up linking the coin you have with a real person.

Bitcoin is anonymous. The people that are attached to the transactions are NOT.

Sure someone could use a disposable address and only use it once, but give it time and someone will mess up. It is all public knowledge.

Okay, well then the only factor you can apply to a coin is what address it comes from and is sent too? And unless you witness him doing it or have proof that he actually did it than you cant be sure. You can authenticate a written signature, you cant really authenticate a mouse click.  

Edit: I mean, as I see it your paying for the right to say I have "special bitcoin" because it was made special by "insert reason" but does that make it collecting? Every penny changes the exact same as any other penny over time. A penny from 1805 would be worth the same as any other penny in 1805 in close to the same condition. The bitcoin was only worth what it was because it had something done too it too make it different but that doesnt change the bitcoin itself, just the value it holds to certain people. Since something like that is considered a sentimental you cant put a price on it so you cant really have a market for it then can you? I mean I guess if a bunch of important well known people started using bitcoin you could try and get all the coins theyve used but when you try and calculate the worth of what your collection is valued at you cant because its not the same to the guy next to you. So bitcoins collectable? I dont really see it.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

If I were to answer whether "Collecting BTC equivalent to collecting Real Coins of Historic Value?" I would say no.

Reason being real coins are considered antiques because time is a variable that effects real coins and not a bitcoin.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin and although some might have been around longer making them older it doesnt change any property of the bitcoin. Physical coins get new mints and what not, they change, different just about every year, thus making the ones that are less in or even out of circulation more valuable to a collector.

I mean I guess in theory you could have a bitcoin collector but what are you paying for? Say you could put two bitcoins in your hand, one old and one brand new. There wouldnt be a single difference because every bit coin old or new is exactly same as each bitcoin.

Its part of what makes a digital currency a digital currency right?

Maybe we could assign value to the bitcoin based on a few factors.

Say you have a factory and it makes t-shirts. Lots and lots of t-shirts.

The value of each t-shirt is worth 1btc

Now say Elvis wears a t-shirt and gives it to a fan. It is still a 1btc t-shirt but.... it was worn by ELVIS! I will give you 5btc for that t-shirt!

Same thing as bitcoin. A btc is a btc. But, maybe they HISTORY associated with that bitcoin or that TRANSACTION is of significance. Or perhaps a private address that was funded by another address where you KNOW that address is linked to, say Satoshi. That would mean a lot of value to.

Thoughts?

But how do you assign factors like that to such an anonymous currency? And to prove you elvis did give you his bitcoin then you would have to make the currency not so anonymous anymore kinda defeating the purpose of bitcoin right? But hey, I guess you could do it!  

Anonymity only goes so far. The anonymous nature of a bitcoin goes out the window once it is traded.

Take the market places for example. Joe Shmoe wants to trade some bitcoin. Well then! All he needs to do is send btc to a mtgox address linked to HIS account and then place an order. Well now we know that these coins that mtgox has in their hot little hands belong to Joe Shmoe. Well now someone wants to buy bitcoin and the system fullfils it. Sends this new guy some coins that Joe has deposited. Now if you want to look at any coin that you have gotten from MtGox you can trace back the transactions to beyond MtGox and then you can use that as a starting point to see what other addresses funded that origional address before it was sent off to MtGox.

It could take a little time and effort but I betcha you could end up linking the coin you have with a real person.

Bitcoin is anonymous. The people that are attached to the transactions are NOT.

Sure someone could use a disposable address and only use it once, but give it time and someone will mess up. It is all public knowledge.

Okay, well then the only factor you can apply to a coin is what address it comes from and is sent too? And unless you witness him doing it or have proof that he actually did it than you cant be sure. You can authenticate a written signature, you cant really authenticate a mouse click.  

Edit: I mean, as I see it your paying for the right to say I have "special bitcoin" because it was made special by "insert reason" but does that make it collecting? Every penny changes the exact same as any other penny over time. A penny from 1805 would be worth the same as any other penny in 1805 in close to the same condition. The bitcoin was only worth what it was because it had something done too it too make it different but that doesnt change the bitcoin itself, just the value it holds to certain people. Since something like that is considered a sentimental you cant put a price on it so you cant really have a market for it then can you? I mean I guess if a bunch of important well known people started using bitcoin you could try and get all the coins theyve used but when you try and calculate the worth of what your collection is valued at you cant because its not the same to the guy next to you. So bitcoins collectable? I dont really see it.

Time to don our thinking caps.

Quick aside: I came across this quote from the page I gleaned the following image: http://scottbarrykaufman.com/allan-snyder/

“We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will.” ― Chuck Palahniuk

Firstly, consider the following.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numismatics

Numismatics is the study or collection of currency, including coins, tokens, paper money, and related objects. While numismatists are often characterized as students or collectors of coins, the discipline also includes the broader study of money and other payment media used to resolve debts and the exchange of goods. Early money used by people is referred to as "Odd and Curious", but the use of other goods in barter exchange is excluded, even where used as a circulating currency (e.g., cigarettes in prison). The Kyrgyz people used horses as the principal currency unit and gave small change in lambskins.[1] The lambskins may be suitable for numismatic study, but the horse is not. Many objects have been used for centuries, such as cowry shells, precious metals and gems.

We may need to consider first coining   a new word for this hobby (for lack of a better word). Cryptomatics (cryptomathics) being my first attempt. Others are welcomed and encouraged.

I feel we are very close on one aspect of this endeavor: Valuing one coin (address) more than another, although their true value remains the same. The Elvis t-shirt example above drives that point home nicely. I was going to pen a similar post using book signing events as an example.


http://www.booksigningcentral.com/2011/04/13/mika-brzezinski-book-signing-tour-knowing-your-value/

Note the website of which the image above came from. http://www.booksigningcentral.com/  An entire website dedicated to bringing to its readers the various upcoming book signing events. For what? For a fan to go to a bookstore and pay, probably, full price for a book, then have it signed by its author. What a bunch of fruitcakes! I wouldn't be surprise to learn these same people pay for their purchases with money printed out of thin air (think about that for a second--I'm sure you'll get it).

Caution: Another Justin Bieber analogy from yours truly (sorry 'bout that, but it's the best example known to boykind).

Referring you again to this page http://www.looktothestars.org/celebrity/2052-justin-bieber, I will use Children's Miracle Network Hospitals for example purposes.

Let's say that some young fan of JB had only so long to live (something like this did happen recently). That kid just so happens to be in a Children's Miracle Network Hospital. The story somehow touches JB or, as the case sometimes is, the other way around--the crisis is sought after, and he announces to his fan base that he has a special offer for them to help raise funds for CMNH, thus helping Timmy (made it up). The special offer will only cost $5.00 and it will go a long way in helping this fan of his when mulitplied by the tens of thousand Beliebers.

For only $5.00 USD (or Canadian via MintChip), a JB fan will receive .01 BTC from the personal BVA (Bitcoin Bieber Vanity Address) 1Bieber........... to your personal BCA (Bitcoin Collector Address) where it can be screenshot, printed out, and placed in their physical scrapbook. (example below)



I believe there are online scrapbooks as well where the image could be stored for the world to see.

No matter how JB (or his handlers) opt to accept the $5.00 USD, it's safe to say that way over $4.00 USD will go to CMNH via this promotion of sorts. And his fans would have a token of appreciation from none other than Justin Bieber. They would know 100% that the 1Bieber...... address belongs to JB. And that crazed fan will show his/her unique memento to other crazed fans and friends.

This idea is not that far-fetched, if you think about it and, of course, a sleek looking website with a proper marketing campaign is in place. And it would work in conjunction with the other ideas outlined in this thread on the same site, for sure.

~Bruno~