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Author Topic: Payment Not Delivered by "R-" for Work Rendered  (Read 9645 times)
Mushroomized
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July 23, 2012, 05:44:28 AM
 #1

A while back R- agreed to pay me between 33-53 bitcoin for creating an info graphic, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78931.0).

I've been paid 4 btc of the 40 he's agreed to pay me via pm so far, (https://blockchain.info/address/15XUdj8CdWTNQjq4g3y5JhbGpiAFrHqQyj), however I have yet to receive the remaining 36 bitcoin.

R claims that the remainder of the money is stuck in Intersango, I have not yet received the agreed payment.

With long delays between excuses, and vague feedback, confusing criticism it's taken a roughly eight hours of work and nearly two months with the constant revisions to complete the project.

Although R is claiming to be unable to retrieve his Bitcoins in order to pay for what he agreed to, he is still clearly looking to spend those nonexistant Bitcoins.
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82719.msg1031622#msg1031622)

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stochastic
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July 23, 2012, 06:07:23 AM
 #2

A while back R- agreed to pay me between 33-53 bitcoin for creating an info graphic, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78931.0).

I've been paid 4 btc of the 40 he's agreed to pay me via pm so far, (https://blockchain.info/address/15XUdj8CdWTNQjq4g3y5JhbGpiAFrHqQyj), however I have yet to receive the remaining 36 bitcoin.

R claims that the remainder of the money is stuck in Intersango, I have not yet received the agreed payment.

With long delays between excuses, and vague feedback, confusing criticism it's taken a roughly eight hours of work and nearly two months with the constant revisions to complete the project.

Although R is claiming to be unable to retrieve his Bitcoins in order to pay for what he agreed to, he is still clearly looking to spend those nonexistant Bitcoins.
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82719.msg1031622#msg1031622)

This wasn't spec work was it?

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
Mushroomized
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July 23, 2012, 02:43:19 PM
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This wasn't spec work was it?

Not really, it was agreed that there would be a payment before the finished product. However, It's been completed, and have yet to receive it.

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Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza
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July 23, 2012, 09:37:57 PM
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For what it's worth, I can say that I honestly believe Mushroomized is telling the truth, and not just some scammer looking for money. I've been working with him for a long time, and have found him to be very trustworthy. I remember when he told me about the job he got with this guy. From what I can remember, R- was very demanding, and always found something wrong with Mushroomized's work, and repeatedly insisted that it be redone. Mushroomized worked very hard to meet R-'s demands, and I would hate to see all his work go for only 4 BTC.
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July 23, 2012, 10:17:40 PM
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This wasn't spec work was it?

Not really, it was agreed that there would be a payment before the finished product. However, It's been completed, and have yet to receive it.

I'm sorry to hear this, hope you get paid dude.

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stochastic
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July 24, 2012, 01:07:48 AM
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As I am sure you know this is very common with this business.  None designers think they can ask for revision after revision.  I am anti spec work and require payment up front or some kind of escrow before I accept a job.  Get what they want in writing to show to the escrow in case there is a dispute.  I really like vworker for this when dealing with new clients.

You should add the client to the shit list

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
BrightAnarchist
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July 24, 2012, 01:48:46 AM
 #7

I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-
BrightAnarchist
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July 24, 2012, 02:18:53 AM
 #8

I wish I had saved more of our convos... but this is all I have.

Okay I am funded!!
How much do I owe you mate.

8 BTC, just send 'em here:

[address removed]

Thanks!
BA

Hey man, please send my coins over. It has been over a month now since I sent you PPUSD.

Thanks,
BA

Hi Bright,
 I am in the process of waiting for a Gox deposit. I hope to get your coins to you soon. I apologize for the delays. Truly.

Sincerely,
R

Still no coins though.
stochastic
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July 24, 2012, 02:21:41 AM
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I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
BrightAnarchist
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July 24, 2012, 02:28:29 AM
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I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference.
stochastic
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July 24, 2012, 02:33:04 AM
 #11

I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference.

Great, a credit card is even easier.  Just call your credit card company and tell them to reverse the charges.  R- has perpetrated fraud and you can reverse charges in the case of fraud.  Don't bother with contacting Paypal as they don't want to reverse charges.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
BrightAnarchist
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July 24, 2012, 02:51:34 AM
 #12

I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference.

Great, a credit card is even easier.  Just call your credit card company and tell them to reverse the charges.  R- has perpetrated fraud and you can reverse charges in the case of fraud.  Don't bother with contacting Paypal as they don't want to reverse charges.

Huh, ok so I opened up a case of unauthorized transaction, which appears to be the only way to reverse a gift on paypal. If that doesn't go through then I guess I can call my credit card company next.

Technically speaking, I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only received 4.5 BTC with a promise that he'd send the remaining 8 BTC "ASAP". Since $70 is now roughly the cost of 8 BTC, I believe I am fully justified in refunding the full dollar amount ( which I would use to buy the 8 BTC I am owed, or as close to that amount as possible. )
Mushroomized
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July 24, 2012, 06:15:07 PM
 #13

That really stinks that you got screwed over too, I hope maybe we can still work through this, I hope we can at least get some form of response from R-.

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CoinCidental
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July 25, 2012, 05:44:23 AM
 #14

I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference.

Great, a credit card is even easier.  Just call your credit card company and tell them to reverse the charges.  R- has perpetrated fraud and you can reverse charges in the case of fraud.  Don't bother with contacting Paypal as they don't want to reverse charges.

Huh, ok so I opened up a case of unauthorized transaction, which appears to be the only way to reverse a gift on paypal. If that doesn't go through then I guess I can call my credit card company next.

Technically speaking, I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only received 4.5 BTC with a promise that he'd send the remaining 8 BTC "ASAP". Since $70 is now roughly the cost of 8 BTC, I believe I am fully justified in refunding the full dollar amount ( which I would use to buy the 8 BTC I am owed, or as close to that amount as possible. )

you believe he should pay you 70 usd back and you will return the 4.5 btc and the transaction will have never happened ..............or ........you would like to keep BOTH since the bitcoin /USD  value has changed and you feel he owes you more than 70 usd ? Smiley
BrightAnarchist
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July 25, 2012, 02:16:57 PM
 #15

I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference.

Great, a credit card is even easier.  Just call your credit card company and tell them to reverse the charges.  R- has perpetrated fraud and you can reverse charges in the case of fraud.  Don't bother with contacting Paypal as they don't want to reverse charges.

Huh, ok so I opened up a case of unauthorized transaction, which appears to be the only way to reverse a gift on paypal. If that doesn't go through then I guess I can call my credit card company next.

Technically speaking, I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only received 4.5 BTC with a promise that he'd send the remaining 8 BTC "ASAP". Since $70 is now roughly the cost of 8 BTC, I believe I am fully justified in refunding the full dollar amount ( which I would use to buy the 8 BTC I am owed, or as close to that amount as possible. )

you believe he should pay you 70 usd back and you will return the 4.5 btc and the transaction will have never happened ..............or ........you would like to keep BOTH since the bitcoin /USD  value has changed and you feel he owes you more than 70 usd ? Smiley

He owes me 8 BTC, that is all.
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July 25, 2012, 02:23:14 PM
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I bought 8 BTC for PPUSD from R- two months ago, and he still hasn't sent me the coins. I can't dispute it via paypal because I marked it "as a gift." He keeps telling me that he's "just transferring the money now..." but never seems to be able to do it. Pretty much the same story as the OP, he just keeps stringing me along.

I haven't mentioned it until now because I was believing him, and not thinking I got scammed, but now I'm depressed after reading the OP Sad and guessing that I probably won't get my money back.

I think it's time for a scammer tag for R-

2 months?!?!

But you can reverse the charges.  If it was funded by a bank account then it is reversible.  Although the amount of time you waited might make it hard to reverse.

I tried to, but paypal wouldn't let me because it was marked as a gift. I funded my PP with a credit card though, not sure if this makes a difference.

Great, a credit card is even easier.  Just call your credit card company and tell them to reverse the charges.  R- has perpetrated fraud and you can reverse charges in the case of fraud.  Don't bother with contacting Paypal as they don't want to reverse charges.

Huh, ok so I opened up a case of unauthorized transaction, which appears to be the only way to reverse a gift on paypal. If that doesn't go through then I guess I can call my credit card company next.

Technically speaking, I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only received 4.5 BTC with a promise that he'd send the remaining 8 BTC "ASAP". Since $70 is now roughly the cost of 8 BTC, I believe I am fully justified in refunding the full dollar amount ( which I would use to buy the 8 BTC I am owed, or as close to that amount as possible. )

Not to freak you out, but that was not the right move.  You've committed fraud with PayPal by lying to them for monetary gain.  My recommendation is that you set the record straight when they make contact to get details.  It may mitigate your mistake when you tell them R- told you to mark it as a gift (if that is the case).

You're probably going to lose your PayPal account anyway, or at least have it severely restricted.  You definitely will take a hit when you do a chargeback with your credit card company, but PayPal has left few options.  Unfortunately for everyone who does it, the practice of using "gifts" to buy BTC is not even a grey area, so it's as good as gone.  Everyone who does it knows they're taking advantage of a loophole in the system, so there's little room to complain regarding PayPal.

That doesn't mean that you should write off the 8btc, but just be ready for a little drama from the people in the middle.



*Sigh* This whole thing isn't worth the trouble or risk for just 8 BTC, so I just cancelled the dispute.

Lesson learned: don't use the gift feature if you're sending first. Or even better: don't ever send first unless it's someone you already trust.
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July 25, 2012, 06:18:57 PM
 #17



[/quote]

*Sigh* This whole thing isn't worth the trouble or risk for just 8 BTC, so I just cancelled the dispute.

Lesson learned: don't use the gift feature if you're sending first. Or even better: don't ever send first unless it's someone you already trust.
[/quote]

I'm sorry about your experience, I wish I could help some how, or we could at least get some form of response out of R.

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July 25, 2012, 06:22:25 PM
 #18

I thought if you told PayPal "bitc-" they'd hit the reverse button and lock down his account?
A credit card chargeback should be really simple though (I've only done it a few times). I just call the company and say "there's been a fraud, can you reverse payment XYZ?" They ask you a few questions and then you're done.

As for him owing you $70, that's not really correct. If you charge back the whole $70 (which I would do), then you basically got 4 free bitcoins. The payment owed is owed at the time of the transaction agreement.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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July 25, 2012, 06:29:23 PM
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As for him owing you $70, that's not really correct. If you charge back the whole $70 (which I would do), then you basically got 4 free bitcoins. The payment owed is owed at the time of the transaction agreement.

Nothing is being charged back. I bought 12.5 BTC for $70, but only recieved 4.5 BTC. Therefore I am owed 8 BTC. He does not owe me any USD at all.

I'm fine with just giving R- a scammer tag and leaving it at that, unless he wants to send the 8 BTC to me and also the 36 BTC owed to OP. However, I think that outcome is unlikely.
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July 25, 2012, 06:36:16 PM
 #20

It seems as though someones using my work as their own.. http://www.btcwallet.org/2012/07/03/info-graphic-bitcoin/

See other postings here - http://tinyurl.com/bsokoou

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