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Author Topic: Can You Kidnap Your Own Kid?  (Read 1687 times)
jaysabi (OP)
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February 06, 2015, 05:53:00 PM
 #1

The full article is below, but here's the TL;DR:

Kid's mother and grandmother agree to a plan by kid's aunt to "kidnap" him to teach him the concept of stranger danger because he was "too nice to people." Aunt asks a coworker to "kidnap" him. Guy does, in the process telling him some pretty horrible things and brandishing a gun, tying his hands and feet together, and leaving him in a basement for four hours. Mother was charged with kidnapping and abuse/neglect of a child. Grandmother, aunt, and coworker were all charged with kidnapping, felonious restraint, and abuse/neglect of a child.

I fully agree with the charges of felonious restraint and abuse/neglect of a child. And all these people sound like wretched, horrible people. But the charge that I found interesting was kidnapping, since I guess I always assumed the definition of kidnapping was the taking of child from his parents without consent. There was consent here by the kid's guardians. Can you kidnap your own kid, or are the authorities just adding that charge because none of the other charges really capture the extent of this crime?


Police: Family plots to teach child a lesson with fake kidnapping

TROY, MO (KTVI) – Family members plotted to have a six-year-old boy kidnapped to teach him a lesson on stranger danger because he was “too nice” to people, the Lincoln County Sheriff’s Office said Thursday.

According to the sheriff’s office, deputies learned of a kidnapping in Troy on February 4.

Investigators learned that sometime before February 2, 38-year-old Denise Kroutil approached a co-worker, 23-year-old Nathan Firoved, and asked him to kidnap her nephew to “scare” him. The victim’s mother, 25-year-old Elizabeth Hupp, and grandmother, 58-year-old Rose Brewer, agreed with the plan to kidnap the young boy to teach him a lesson.

The boy’s mother and grandmother did not know Nathan’s last name, only Kroutil.

On Monday, February 2, authorities said Firoved parked his pickup truck by the boy’s bus stop and waited for him to be dropped off after school. Firoved lured the six-year-old into his truck and drove off.

Firoved told the frightened young boy he would never see his mother again and that he would be “nailed to the wall of a shed.”

The young boy began crying, at which point Firoved pulled out a handgun and threatened to harm the child if he didn’t stop crying.

Investigators said Firovfed bound the boy’s hands and feet with plastic bags, then covered the child’s face with a jacket. Firoved drove the boy to his own home, carried the child into the basement, and left him there.

Kroutil, the boy’s aunt, walked down into the basement, pulled the victim’s pants down, and began shouting that he could be sold into sex slavery. She also allegedly chastised the child for not trying to resist her or Firoved.

The boy was kept in the basement for some time longer before he was finally unbound and allowed to go upstairs, at which time his family lectured him about stranger danger.

Family members and Firoved kept in contact via cell phone during the whole ordeal, which lasted about four hours.

The victim told school authorities on Wednesday, who then contacted the Missouri Division of Family Services. The sheriff’s office was called to the home and the child placed into protective custody.

The family members told investigators their intent was to educate the child and felt they had done nothing wrong.

Firoved, Brewer, and Kroutil were charged with kidnapping, felonious restraint, and abuse/neglect of a child. They remain in custody at Lincoln County Jail on $250,000 bond. The boy’s mother, Hupp, was charged with kidnapping and abuse/neglect of a child. She remains jailed on a $250,000 cash-only bond.

Lethn
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February 06, 2015, 05:57:09 PM
 #2

Quote
The family members told investigators their intent was to educate the child and felt they had done nothing wrong.

*Sits back with popcorn and waits for the Christians*
michaeladair
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February 06, 2015, 06:01:33 PM
 #3

When you can't find enough bad in the world around you to show your son, you must take matters into your own hands.

Lethn
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February 06, 2015, 06:02:29 PM
 #4

Wow! That was fast!  Grin
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February 06, 2015, 06:08:20 PM
 #5

There must be a better way to teach him the same lesson.
Also, how about police abuse videos? Are they also 'educating' him to stay away from police?

Nemo1024
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February 06, 2015, 06:12:15 PM
 #6

Apparently you can, if the state (CPS) take your kids from you first and you try to take them back:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg10369459#msg10369459

But the scenario in the OP is pretty... twisted.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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February 06, 2015, 06:33:48 PM
 #7

That's how George Bluth Sr. teach important lessons to his kids in Arrested Development. Cheesy

rosh
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February 06, 2015, 07:52:13 PM
 #8

Answer to the question - yes.
If custody is given to one parent, who is separated from the other, and the other parent takes away the kid - it can be construed as kidnapping.

However, the incident given above is truly crazy.  Tongue
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February 06, 2015, 09:25:15 PM
 #9

When you can't find enough bad in the world around you to show your son, you must take matters into your own hands.
This comment made me laugh.

I find this story quite appalling. Although I don't consider this case to be an actual kidnapping, there's plenty enough wrong with it. The only thing this kid learned for certain, is that (some of) his family are real disgusting assholes.

Lethn
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February 07, 2015, 07:11:03 AM
 #10

yeah it wasn't 'actual' kidnapping, I don't dispute that, but it was child abuse enough, what kind of shit heads do that to a perfectly nice kid? Especially when you consider how on this very forum people were bitching about what assholes children are.

I really don't see how anyone unless they are total lunatics can justify that kind of treatment.
rosh
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February 07, 2015, 09:46:33 AM
 #11

yeah it wasn't 'actual' kidnapping, I don't dispute that, but it was child abuse enough, what kind of shit heads do that to a perfectly nice kid? Especially when you consider how on this very forum people were bitching about what assholes children are.

I really don't see how anyone unless they are total lunatics can justify that kind of treatment.

There are all sorts of lunatics out there.
And some of them go on to become parents as well.  Sad
TrianglePythagoras
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February 07, 2015, 09:50:48 AM
 #12

That's straight up child abuse to me. Leaving the kid tied up in the basement for FOUR hours is way too far.
Lethn
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February 07, 2015, 09:54:47 AM
 #13

That's straight up child abuse to me. Leaving the kid tied up in the basement for FOUR hours is way too far.

Seriously, you're going to argue the semantics of how long they were tied up their rather than the actual act itself?
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February 07, 2015, 09:56:13 AM
 #14

There was actually a movie, where someone did for Insurance movie.
Man of Fire I think.

Lethn
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February 07, 2015, 09:57:57 AM
 #15

There was actually a movie, where someone did for Insurance movie.
Man of Fire I think.

There was actually a recent case here in the UK where there was a kidnapping of a child and it turned out that the child's own mother was in on it, I should probably dig that one up.

Got it! Knew I remembered right!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7733586.stm

basic summary of what happened:

Quote
The court heard the pair plotted to claim the £50,000 reward money put up by the press for the youngster's return. 
enryk
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February 07, 2015, 10:00:37 AM
 #16

There was actually a movie, where someone did for Insurance movie.
Man of Fire I think.

There was actually a recent case here in the UK where there was a kidnapping of a child and it turned out that the child's own mother was in on it, I should probably dig that one up.

Got it! Knew I remembered right!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7733586.stm

Hmm..Thats bad.
Seems people don't do it for harming anyone , but only for the money.

Lethn
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February 07, 2015, 10:02:23 AM
 #17

Money or Obedience, that's all people who attack their own children care about.
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February 07, 2015, 10:51:36 AM
Last edit: February 07, 2015, 11:05:14 AM by Elwar
 #18

I would say it was unlawful restraint as opposed to kidnapping.

Here is a definition (Texas) of kidnapping:
KIDNAPPING. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly abducts another person.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the abduction was not coupled with intent to use or to threaten to use deadly force;

(2) the actor was a relative of the person abducted; and

(3) the actor's sole intent was to assume lawful control of the victim.



When I was in high school there was a knock on the door, my mom said it was for me so I go to the door. Two big guys from my high school grab me and drag me to a van and throw me in. All while my mom and sisters watched. I get in the van and see another girl from our church. It was a kidnapping church retreat for the day. They told her in advance so she knew what was coming and made sure I was home at that time. That was an abduction by someone who was not a family member. But their sole intent was not to assume lawful control over me. And I didn't really fight back since I knew the guys from church and my mom was just watching like everything was ok.

I also remember seeing an old episode of Gidget where her friends kidnapped her and took her to a kidnapping party.

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February 07, 2015, 10:55:24 AM
 #19

Quote
the actor's sole intent was to assume lawful control of the victim.

Well going by this definition I would say that was kidnapping because they were not going to let the child get away and they certainly wouldn't let him fight back.
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February 07, 2015, 11:25:23 AM
 #20

Wow, this is a terrible way to teach your child a lesson. I don't think psychologically scaring him for life is the right way to go. As for the whether this is kidnapping or not doesn't really matter. It's still fucked up and abuse.
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