How 999dice.com is stealing your coins, and exactly why you won't believe me

[Astargath]

The thread is too long to read, so does whatever OP says still hold true? or was it disproved (that seems unlikely)?

Nothing seems to have changed and it still requires a click to see the hash, and everything is vague.
I anyway, tried it with a small deposit and lost it, tho that doesn't mean anything..

IMO, 999dice is highly suspicious, and doesn't seem to be provably fair.

Well all his accusations have strong evidence behind them, unfortunately its impossible to prove if they are indeed cheating, more or less like dadice case where they didnt want to show the cold wallet and now people is calling them scammers.

If so, then 999dice is not provably fair.
Provably fair requires guarantee that the fairness is provable. Not provable (even in a single scenario) = Not provably fair.

Whenever I tried 999dice before or after this, I had always ended up losing my funds. Though it doesn't actually mean anything, I am not going to deposit there whatever happens.
I usually don't end up losing the entire deposit like that unless I am chasing something. https://www.moneypot.com/users/ndnhc

Da Dice is provably fair. No one has complained about not honoring withdrawals or anything. All that is there is (in the words of the those who suspect so ), there is no assurance that Da Dice has the funds they claim. It is approx. 500 to 600BTC before kelly.
I am personally positive that they have the funds. The campaign budget (proposed to me while making decisions) was big enough that such amount is only expected. Claiming it a scam for not providing the signed message is absurd though some like QS do, and is not right and is only a speculation on the part.

999dice does look really suspicious just by how it looks but i personally have won there and ended up on profit, i stopped playing dice and i saw this thread after playing there, maybe they only scam big amounts and let the others win so it looks more legit

[snapcall]

I won small amount too there like .05 BTC, I think they scam you on the big rolls like 95% with several coins. As long as you click that provably fair tab every bet you are probably getting a fair bet, I wouldnt make any without it, and won't be depositing anymore there. I thought I was extremely unlucky, what added up to 1 in 2 million, so I got suspicious and found these threads. That's where they got me I do a few big bets at 90-95% and can lose 2 or 3, sometimes 4 in a row, but they will make sure you lose any bigger amount of bitcoin you deposit.

[remon78eg]

Bet Number

1.Server Seed + Client Seed (->byte[4]) + Bet Number (->byte[4])
===============================================

      var res = DiceWebAPI.PlaceBet(Session, decimal.Parse("-0.00000001"), 0, 499499, 333, Currency);
      if (!res.Success) { return; }
      var s = res.Secret;
      for (int n = 0; n < 1000000; n++) {
              int i = DiceWebAPI.GenerateBetResult(res.ServerSeed, 333, n);
              if (i == s) { MessageBox.Show("betnumber="+ n.ToString());break; }
       }
================================================
from this test

i found that betNumber=0 always


------------
Update:
Bet Number Used To Verify Bets In Auto Bets It will Be 0,1,2,3,4,...

[remon78eg]

/*
I Think, To Get 100% Fair Bets, Do That Test With Every Bet
Note That ServerSeedHash Is The Same For All (BTC,DOGE,LTC)
So If You Run More Than One Bot You Have To Do Some Complex Programming To Know The Next ServerSeedHash Because May Be It Taken By Other Bot And The Server Create New One.
*/

using System.Security.Cryptography;
using System.Globalization;

//==========================================================================================
        static bool VerifyBetResult(string serverSeed, int clientSeed, int betNumber,
                            long betResult, string serverSeedHash = null)
        {
            Func<string, byte[]> strtobytes = s => Enumerable
                .Range(0, s.Length / 2)
                .Select(x => byte.Parse(s.Substring(x * 2, 2), NumberStyles.HexNumber))
                .ToArray();
            byte[] server = strtobytes(serverSeed);
            byte[] client = BitConverter.GetBytes(clientSeed).Reverse().ToArray();
            byte[] num = BitConverter.GetBytes(betNumber).Reverse().ToArray();
            byte[] serverhash = serverSeedHash == null ? null : strtobytes(serverSeedHash);
            byte[] data = server.Concat(client).Concat(num).ToArray();
            using (SHA512 sha512 = new SHA512Managed())
            {
                if (serverhash != null)
                    using (SHA256 sha256 = new SHA256Managed())
                        if (!sha256.ComputeHash(server).SequenceEqual(serverhash))
                            throw new Exception("Server seed hash does not match server seed");

                byte[] hash = sha512.ComputeHash(sha512.ComputeHash(data));
                while (true)
                {
                    for (int x = 0; x <= 61; x += 3)
                    {
                        long result = (hash[ x ] << 16 ) | (hash[x + 1] << 8 ) | hash[x + 2];
                        if (result < 16000000)
                            return result % 1000000 == betResult;
                    }
                    hash = sha512.ComputeHash(hash);
                }
            }
        }

//==========================================================================================

            var ServerSeedHash = DiceWebAPI.GetServerSeedHash(Session).ServerSeedHash;
            int clientSeed = 333;//any number
            int BetNumber = 0;//must be 0

            var res = DiceWebAPI.PlaceBet(Session, decimal.Parse("-0.00000001"), 0, 499499, clientSeed, Currency);
            if (!res.Success) { return; }
            var it = VerifyBetResult(res.ServerSeed, clientSeed, BetNumber, res.Secret, ServerSeedHash);
            if (!it) MessageBox.Show("Something wrong!!");


//==========================================================================================

[remon78eg]

// c# code to verify every bet in the multi bet results


using System.Security.Cryptography;
using System.Globalization;
//==========================================================================================
        static bool VerifyBetResult(string serverSeed, int clientSeed, int betNumber,
                            long betResult, string serverSeedHash = null)
        {
            Func<string, byte[]> strtobytes = s => Enumerable
                .Range(0, s.Length / 2)
                .Select(x => byte.Parse(s.Substring(x * 2, 2), NumberStyles.HexNumber))
                .ToArray();
            byte[] server = strtobytes(serverSeed);
            byte[] client = BitConverter.GetBytes(clientSeed).Reverse().ToArray();
            byte[] num = BitConverter.GetBytes(betNumber).Reverse().ToArray();
            byte[] serverhash = serverSeedHash == null ? null : strtobytes(serverSeedHash);
            byte[] data = server.Concat(client).Concat(num).ToArray();
            using (SHA512 sha512 = new SHA512Managed())
            {
                if (serverhash != null)
                    using (SHA256 sha256 = new SHA256Managed())
                        if (!sha256.ComputeHash(server).SequenceEqual(serverhash))
                            throw new Exception("Server seed hash does not match server seed");

                byte[] hash = sha512.ComputeHash(sha512.ComputeHash(data));
                while (true)
                {
                    for (int x = 0; x <= 61; x += 3)
                    {
                        long result = (hash[ x ] << 16 ) | (hash[x + 1] << 8 ) | hash[x + 2];
                        if (result < 16000000)
                            return result % 1000000 == betResult;
                    }
                    hash = sha512.ComputeHash(hash);
                }
            }
        }

//==========================================================================================


                var seed = rnd.Next(rnd.Next(0, 111111), rnd.Next(222222, 999999));
                var settings = new AutomatedBetsSettings
                {
                    BasePayIn = baseBet,
                    GuessLow = guessLow,
                    GuessHigh = guessHigh,
                    MaxBets = betCount > Session.MaxBetBatchSize ? Session.MaxBetBatchSize : betCount,
                    ResetOnWin = resetOnWin,
                    ResetOnLose = resetOnLoss,
                    IncreaseOnWinPercent = increaseOnWin,
                    IncreaseOnLosePercent = increaseOnLoss,
                    MaxAllowedPayIn = maxBet,
                    ResetOnLoseMaxBet = resetOnMaxLoss,
                    StopOnLoseMaxBet = stopOnMaxLoss,
                    StopMaxBalance = stopMaxBalance,
                    ClientSeed = seed,//rnd.Next(),
                    Currency = Currency
                };

                var ServerSeedHash = DiceWebAPI.GetServerSeedHash(Session).ServerSeedHash;

                var result = DiceWebAPI.PlaceAutomatedBets(Session, settings);
                if (!result.Success || result.BetCount == 0)
                {
                       return;
                }

                //verify result
                bool it = false;
                for (int i = 0; i < result.BetCount; i++){
                    it = VerifyBetResult(result.ServerSeed, seed, i, result.Secrets, ServerSeedHash);
                    if (!it) { MessageBox.Show("Verify Fail: Something wrong!!"); }
                }

[remon78eg]

important notice
using this: Session[Currency].Balance , after: (DiceWebAPI.PlaceBet)
to get the new balance
gives wrong result
because it delayed until updated leading to errors in processing results

[moooonu]

thanks for letting us know about this side of jake. I was betting on the site too. Down -7 btc since i joined the website.

[alani123]

I do not agree at all that 999dice is not fair.

I have played aprox 5 mill hand the last two day (using dicebot) and everything seems to be according to basic statistic. I have a decent revenue due to my system (which I off course know I can loose on the next hand, due to basic statistic)

hence I can definately recommend this site due to the house edge of only 0.1 %

feel free to use my referral link if you want
https://www.999dice.com/?[lol]

You know, the fact that people create new accounts to come and post in the one post from someone that cared enough to look into why 999dice.com scams people by deceiving them into believing that their betting is fair is beyond me. You won't change anyone's opinion with your lies and referral link... 

[chrille55]

1) I trust the site as I have done millions of rolls, and all rolls seems to fit into common statistic. The three screendumps below sums up tp 3 mill rolls done i the last couple of day and this is what I base my opinion on.
  http://elbrandt.com/account1.jpg
  http://elbrandt.com/account2.jpg
  http://elbrandt.com/account3.jpg
2) as I think the site is 100% fair, I off course recommend the site to other users and then it would be stupid not to include my referral link in the post ( even though the referral commission are peanuts)

[actmyname]

1) I trust the site as I have done millions of rolls, and all rolls seems to fit into common statistic. The three screendumps below sums up tp 3 mill rolls done i the last couple of day and this is what I base my opinion on.
  http://elbrandt.com/account1.jpg
  http://elbrandt.com/account2.jpg
  http://elbrandt.com/account3.jpg
2) as I think the site is 100% fair, I off course recommend the site to other users and then it would be stupid not to include my referral link in the post ( even though the referral commission are peanuts)

They won't scam you for 0.01 DOGE. They'll scam you for way, way more than that. Already addressed this in your thread.

If you begin to bet with hundreds or thousands of dollars rather than fractions of pennies then maybe you'll see a very noticeable gap in ev.

[remon78eg]

why we lose (even if the site is 100% fair)?
the answer is very simple
we can't create more power from nothing
how?
say that we have the chance of 100% win at the end
if the site takes his edge (say 0.2%) every roll
then the 100% will not still 100% it will decreased till be 0% and we lose all the money at the end

in another words:
say you have 100$
and every play, the site takes 0.2$
every time you play 100 rolls, the site takes 20$, so how you can win at the end ??
if your normal chance was 100, now you have a chance of 80 to win instead of 100

in another words:
say the bet amount is 100$
say the bet chance is 5%
now if we win we will take 1898$
5% means that every 100 rolls i will win only 5 times and lose 95 times
my win=5*1898=9490
my loss=95*100=9500
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what do i need to win???
say we play 50% chance and the edge was 0 (no edge)
and we play martingales
how many loss in row we will take ?
if we play 1024 rolls we can take 11 loss in row
if we play 2048 rolls we can take 12 loss in row
if we play 2147483648  we can take 32 loss in row
if we play infinite we can take infinite loss in row

so we must lose at the end
because our money is limited
and if we have unlimited money, the max bet amount is limited.
and the edge will cut from our chance to win and forward us directly to the loss.

[actmyname]

why we lose (even if the site is 100% fair)?
the answer is very simple -snip-

Yeah. That's how house edge works.

But even if there is a statistical loss, gamblers like to take the chance to win. After all, life is full of unfair risks—gambling is no different. In relation to zero house edge, you are expected to approach your original bankroll as you gamble more. If you want this to happen then you would simply bet the minimum at the highest chance and continue betting for eternity. Think of it like betting on black & red at Roulette without any 0's.

But this is all irrelevant because the site isn't fair and they cheat players.

[chrille55]

1) I trust the site as I have done millions of rolls, and all rolls seems to fit into common statistic. The three screendumps below sums up tp 3 mill rolls done i the last couple of day and this is what I base my opinion on.
  http://elbrandt.com/account1.jpg
  http://elbrandt.com/account2.jpg
  http://elbrandt.com/account3.jpg
2) as I think the site is 100% fair, I off course recommend the site to other users and then it would be stupid not to include my referral link in the post ( even though the referral commission are peanuts)

They won't scam you for 0.01 DOGE. They'll scam you for way, way more than that. Already addressed this in your thread.

If you begin to bet with hundreds or thousands of dollars rather than fractions of pennies then maybe you'll see a very noticeable gap in ev.

If I make higher bets i'm not able to make millions of bets and then statistical variance kicks in. Betting a couple of thousand high bets where you have huge losses does not mean the site is a scam. It is most likely just bad luck. The system I use makes my bot bet several huge bets and sometimes I loose and sometimes I win. But my records shows the losses are according to basic statistical math.

Unless you show a log with millions of bets where you can show the bets are rigged you cannot acuse the site of being fraudulent.

[actmyname]

Unless you show a log with millions of bets where you can show the bets are rigged you cannot acuse the site of being fraudulent.

Have you read the OP of this very thread you're posting on? If you have then you would realize that the site is a scam and that all of your anecdotal evidence should be taken with a very large grain of salt.

The site is NOT provably fair. It's selectively provably fair. Meaning that your bets can and will be rigged... if it's profitable to do so. It wouldn't make sense to exit scam for $40. But for $40,000... sure.

[MICRO]

why we lose (even if the site is 100% fair)?
the answer is very simple
we can't create more power from nothing
how?
say that we have the chance of 100% win at the end
if the site takes his edge (say 0.2%) every roll
then the 100% will not still 100% it will decreased till be 0% and we lose all the money at the end

in another words:
say you have 100$
and every play, the site takes 0.2$
every time you play 100 rolls, the site takes 20$, so how you can win at the end ??
if your normal chance was 100, now you have a chance of 80 to win instead of 100

in another words:
say the bet amount is 100$
say the bet chance is 5%
now if we win we will take 1898$
5% means that every 100 rolls i will win only 5 times and lose 95 times
my win=5*1898=9490
my loss=95*100=9500
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what do i need to win???
say we play 50% chance and the edge was 0 (no edge)
and we play martingales
how many loss in row we will take ?
if we play 1024 rolls we can take 11 loss in row
if we play 2048 rolls we can take 12 loss in row
if we play 2147483648  we can take 32 loss in row
if we play infinite we can take infinite loss in row

so we must lose at the end
because our money is limited
and if we have unlimited money, the max bet amount is limited.
and the edge will cut from our chance to win and forward us directly to the loss.

That is not how house edge works.

But you are right you will always lose in the long run because of the house edge.

[amGigolo]

I've received requests from people in the past to look into 999dice's provably fair system but I never got around to doing so. I'm sorry now that I didn't.

Withholding the server seed hash until it is explicitly requested is dubious behaviour. It allows the site to cheat on all rolls except those for which the server seed hash has been requested, which will be almost all of them.

Changing the server seed for each individual roll in itself is bad enough, since it requires the user to keep extensive records and also to change their client seed every roll to be sure that they aren't being cheated. Add the hiding of the server seed hash on top of that and you really do have to wonder what's going on. Why would anyone go to such lengths to hamper their provable fairness?

is it possible  they can  reverse code it once you click that button to be sure its "fair" once they know you checked?

like ok we know the roll = "49.50"  and his client seed =  "jhoitybihiopyiye"

so to get to  49.50  could they do something like this to get the  correct  sever seed?

49.50(roll) / jhoitybihiopyiye(client seed)  = server seed

just taking a stab at it cause i know another site does the same practice

[pozmu]

If you know site that's cheating you should post it in scam accusation.

I don't know if 999dice is cheating this way, but I think even if they would you could avoid by setting client seed after viewing server seed's hash.

And for some time you don't need to click a button every time to see server seed hash, it's enough to open provably fair tab once.

[actmyname]

If you know site that's cheating you should post it in scam accusation.

What do you think this thread is? Did you just read the title and not bother looking at the post?

I don't know if 999dice is cheating this way, but I think even if they would you could avoid by setting client seed after viewing server seed's hash.

And for some time you don't need to click a button every time to see server seed hash, it's enough to open provably fair tab once.

You clearly did not read the thread. The server seed changes every time.

[mitch1212]

TL;DR: 999dice is not provably fair at all, but they hide is so well, you'd never actually know it.

Stupid-long version:

I'd like to start with some background. I'm involved in the crypto community, have been mining and trading bitcoin for a very long time. (Well, very long being a relative term.) I'm a programmer, I enjoy math, and few things give me more joy than figuring out a math/programming puzzle. I've also dabbled with gambling my entire adult life. Not addicted to it by any stretch of the imagination. Losing is frustrating and ruins the joy of it. The joy I get from it is figuring out how it works, and making it work to my advantage. Card counting? Sure, sometimes. That's a bit boring however. Let it Ride is my favorite game to play for fun. Being able to increase your bet (or reduce your losses) depending on how your hand plays out? Oh, that’s fun. (Yes, I'm aware the house edge is about 3.5% or so on Let it Ride, and card counting doesn't do much good, but at a table in a casino, when the other players realize there's an advantage to sharing their hands with each other, that changes the odds a little).

Anyway - I wrote the above just to give a little background on where I'm coming from. Naturally, being a lover of all things crypto, I eventually gravitated towards sites like primedice and satoshidice and not too long ago, 999dice.com caught my attention. .1% house edge? Wow. That’s not bad. And since it's based on cryptography, you can't accuse them of cheating, like I'm sure all the online casinos engage in.

So I sta
Decide for yourselves, but don't be stupid and blatantly trust a site that hides the hash, makes you tell them you're looking, and provides deceptive information for calculating the hash yourself.

Was your name "Lyco" on 999dice? I remember seeing your bets.
And you might have been one of my referrals... Is this your stats?

#224234985   Lyco   

14.54834995         ETH
1118.09577106     BTC
114326.41837954 Doge

[nowwhat2020]

it is so shocking to see this.
I used to play there and i thought it was my bad luck.
This site changed my life.

i will tell my story when I have time.

can someone verify that owner of 999dice is also known as Jake.  (Noah Matisoff)