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Author Topic: Mining server room (cooling development help)  (Read 21407 times)
w128
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May 24, 2011, 04:13:52 PM
 #21

I do like the partition idea and hadn't even considered that that will certainly go into the design model if we opt exhaust over AC

I don't follow.

Partitioning would be a benefit regardless. It's not a solution in itself, it's something that makes whatever else you're doing more efficient.

$3200 isn't bad. That would cover a single rack for 2 months or less at a typical colo.
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warweed
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May 24, 2011, 04:16:21 PM
 #22

This is currenty a very rough model ATM everything is to scale ATM including down to the mono's and the lumber we are certainly very open to suggestions and would be willing to provide dimensions to anyone interested in suggesting cheap and efficient and expandable design ideas (there is a upper limit) but that is to be detirmined by what we can get for power

Another possible issue is fire suppression but that will be a diffrent topic

Keep in mind with the current difficulty increasing there will be a point where mining will not be finically possible but that said we just wish to pay hardware and expenses and shall be happy

The room will be used for other projects in the future and possible leased for projects

-J


We just hadn't considered a partition and it will go into the model for sure
w128
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May 24, 2011, 04:26:58 PM
 #23

Seems as good a place as any to say this...

Most of the setups I've seen are using standard cases and populating the motherboards directly. I wonder if anyone has experimented with using a PCIE splitter/extender to run 4x as many cards off a single motherboard? The benefit would be removing the overhead of motherboard/cpu/ram and adding flexibility to place the GPUs away from the mobo.
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May 24, 2011, 04:31:35 PM
 #24

Get an AC unit that is rated for the heat removal at least equal to the heat produced by the setup. Or start with a smaller installation if you have not enough knowledge.

Does anybody have any sort of numbers on heat produced by, say 2x 5870?

Any ballpark numbers on per-rig heat produced?

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May 24, 2011, 04:32:40 PM
 #25

Seems as good a place as any to say this...

Most of the setups I've seen are using standard cases and populating the motherboards directly. I wonder if anyone has experimented with using a PCIE splitter/extender to run 4x as many cards off a single motherboard? The benefit would be removing the overhead of motherboard/cpu/ram and adding flexibility to place the GPUs away from the mobo.

You'll have a power problem, as the PCI-e bus is rated for up to 75W and the GPUs use this power as well as the separate connectors.

You can use single extenders though:
http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42
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May 24, 2011, 04:34:04 PM
 #26

Get an AC unit that is rated for the heat removal at least equal to the heat produced by the setup. Or start with a smaller installation if you have not enough knowledge.

Does anybody have any sort of numbers on heat produced by, say 2x 5870?

Any ballpark numbers on per-rig heat produced?



For electrical devices, wattage to power the item is effectively the heat output, as there is no mechanical loss, so 190 Watts per 5870 approx.
w128
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May 24, 2011, 04:43:26 PM
 #27

Seems as good a place as any to say this...

Most of the setups I've seen are using standard cases and populating the motherboards directly. I wonder if anyone has experimented with using a PCIE splitter/extender to run 4x as many cards off a single motherboard? The benefit would be removing the overhead of motherboard/cpu/ram and adding flexibility to place the GPUs away from the mobo.

You'll have a power problem, as the PCI-e bus is rated for up to 75W and the GPUs use this power as well as the separate connectors.

You can use single extenders though:
http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42

Interesting, I was under the impression that with the advent of hungrier cards the whole draw had been relocated to the 6/8-pin connectors, not that it was being divided with the mobo slot.
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May 24, 2011, 04:48:50 PM
 #28

Get an AC unit that is rated for the heat removal at least equal to the heat produced by the setup. Or start with a smaller installation if you have not enough knowledge.

Does anybody have any sort of numbers on heat produced by, say 2x 5870?

Any ballpark numbers on per-rig heat produced?



For electrical devices, wattage to power the item is effectively the heat output, as there is no mechanical loss, so 190 Watts per 5870 approx.

is that 190W an actual measured consumption or the design max from a data sheet ??
keybaud
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May 24, 2011, 04:55:43 PM
 #29

Get an AC unit that is rated for the heat removal at least equal to the heat produced by the setup. Or start with a smaller installation if you have not enough knowledge.

Does anybody have any sort of numbers on heat produced by, say 2x 5870?

Any ballpark numbers on per-rig heat produced?



For electrical devices, wattage to power the item is effectively the heat output, as there is no mechanical loss, so 190 Watts per 5870 approx.

is that 190W an actual measured consumption or the design max from a data sheet ??

Manufacturer is 188W, but that is about what they draw at 100% load as I have 3 of them. My rig (exc monitor) draws 690 Watts at the plug for 3 HD5870 (at 950/300).  

You'll be much more efficient with directed cooling, as you need to increase the air flow to the GPU fan, not just reduce the temperature. As an example, taking my case off and having a cold wind blow onto the rig, the GPUs reached 100 degrees (as they are close together). Putting the case on and adding 2 fans that blow the air directly onto the GPUs dropped the temperature to 76 degrees. You may not have this issue if you have lots of space, but it may help with cost effective cooling, by reducing the volume of air you need to cool.
bobR
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May 24, 2011, 05:11:25 PM
 #30


is that 190W an actual measured consumption or the design max from a data sheet ??

Manufacturer is 188W, but that is about what they draw at 100% load as I have 3 of them. My rig (exc monitor) draws 690 Watts at the plug for 3 HD5870 (at 950/300). 

You'll be much more efficient with directed cooling, as you need to increase the air flow to the GPU fan, not just reduce the temperature. As an example, taking my case off and having a cold wind blow onto the rig, the GPUs reached 100 degrees (as they are close together). Putting the case on and adding 2 fans that blow the air directly onto the GPUs dropped the temperature to 76 degrees. You may not have this issue if you have lots of space, but it may help with cost effective cooling, by reducing the volume of air you need to cool.

Just wondered .. was doing btu conversion

you rig is about 2356 btu/hr of heat
bobR
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May 24, 2011, 05:48:59 PM
 #31

Consider fans/forced air only work if the ambient air is cooler than what you want to cool
If its 100 degrees outside its most likely warmer inside and forcing 100+ degree air on gpu's ain't gonna cool much

also from past experience if its not an air tight enclosure its better to exhaust hot air than blow in cooler air
sealing makes the difference 
Basiley
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May 24, 2011, 06:02:32 PM
 #32

starter:
dont put it that way. or you need something like 2x3400mm "fan" just ensure. for consistent airflow[let alone exhaust].
instead:
1. put/mount in in standard[19''] rack, close it and attach to air conditioner.
2 or use usual office/from-the-shelf midi-tower PC-cases and attack 120mm pvc/composite tubes for hot exhaust, backed by external fans. at each step.
bobR
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May 24, 2011, 06:15:04 PM
 #33

starter:
dont put it that way. or you need something like 2x3400mm "fan" just ensure. for consistent airflow[let alone exhaust].
instead:
1. put/mount in in standard[19''] rack, close it and attach to air conditioner.
2 or use usual office/from-the-shelf midi-tower PC-cases and attack 120mm pvc/composite tubes for hot exhaust, backed by external fans. at each step.

Just what were you trying to say Huh
your options may not be reasonable...cost effective
It's not like I'm getting paid for designing a system
w128
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May 24, 2011, 06:31:22 PM
 #34

starter:
dont put it that way. or you need something like 2x3400mm "fan" just ensure. for consistent airflow[let alone exhaust].
instead:
1. put/mount in in standard[19''] rack, close it and attach to air conditioner.
2 or use usual office/from-the-shelf midi-tower PC-cases and attack 120mm pvc/composite tubes for hot exhaust, backed by external fans. at each step.

I like the mid-tower case option. You can get pretty decent (for this purpose) cases for $35 each. It wouldn't add a huge amount to the overall cost but it would make arranging the units much easier and provide a mount for exhaust tubes.

It's a shame the Supermicro GPU-centric server cases are to expensive and geared towards Tesla.  I imagine some old Dell 6X50 cases could be turned into a nice GPU rackmount with a little effort.
bobR
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May 24, 2011, 06:47:51 PM
 #35

starter:
dont put it that way. or you need something like 2x3400mm "fan" just ensure. for consistent airflow[let alone exhaust].
instead:
1. put/mount in in standard[19''] rack, close it and attach to air conditioner.
2 or use usual office/from-the-shelf midi-tower PC-cases and attack 120mm pvc/composite tubes for hot exhaust, backed by external fans. at each step.

I like the mid-tower case option. You can get pretty decent (for this purpose) cases for $35 each. It wouldn't add a huge amount to the overall cost but it would make arranging the units much easier and provide a mount for exhaust tubes.

It's a shame the Supermicro GPU-centric server cases are to expensive and geared towards Tesla.  I imagine some old Dell 6X50 cases could be turned into a nice GPU rackmount with a little effort.

it all depends on how many - how much power
will a dozen cased systems with dryer hose out the window do the job
all year Huh  What works in New York is a bust is California
We can hardly guess if the person that asked for help cant provide any details
warweed
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May 24, 2011, 06:51:20 PM
 #36

Open board is the way we would like to keep it cases are not a option we have found the making small intake fans with cowling to provide a steady air intake to the cards open air cools more efficiently then a case would and we like the open air concept both for space and the modular ease of replacing dead hardware I think that by increaseing the air movement in the given room we can keep a mean ambient average and keep hot spots minimal again AC is certainly a option but I think we can effectively cool at this point with a intake exhaust system I like the partition idea simply because we can keep better control of the temperature due to segmentation I shall talk with my partner tonight and will do some more 3d modeling while we wait for the extra hardware to arrive as there is a bunch more to include in the design aspect of things


To the last person who posted please see original post in Edmonton Alberta Canada temp swings from +30 c in summer to -30c in winter so hard Wink so not super easy to design for

36 5850s clocked to 900 and 13 5870s at 950 at the present moment awaiting to run

The current "rack" dimensions will support up to 3 rigs per shelf for a total of  72 machines I think the idea thou is to stay under 50 depending one the power our provider will give us because at I think it is 48 machines the calculated load average was 98 amps ? I think I'm going off my memory from my partner
Basiley
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May 24, 2011, 07:05:59 PM
 #37

i mean using open stand is no-go situation: not cooling benefits, no management benefits, except visual state control, not dust/bio-proof&etc and less energy efficient[to cool it down].
bobR
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May 24, 2011, 07:17:55 PM
 #38

Open board is the way we would like to keep it cases are not a option we have found the making small intake fans with cowling to provide a steady air intake to the cards open air cools more efficiently then a case would and we like the open air concept both for space and the modular ease of replacing dead hardware I think that by increaseing the air movement in the given room we can keep a mean ambient average and keep hot spots minimal again AC is certainly a option but I think we can effectively cool at this point with a intake exhaust system I like the partition idea simply because we can keep better control of the temperature due to segmentation I shall talk with my partner tonight and will do some more 3d modeling while we wait for the extra hardware to arrive as there is a bunch more to include in the design aspect of things


To the last person who posted please see original post in Edmonton Alberta Canada temp swings from +30 c in summer to -30c in winter so hard Wink so not super easy to design for

36 5850s clocked to 900 and 13 5870s at 950 at the present moment awaiting to run

The current "rack" dimensions will support up to 3 rigs per shelf for a total of  72 machines I think the idea thou is to stay under 50 depending one the power our provider will give us because at I think it is 48 machines the calculated load average was 98 amps ? I think I'm going off my memory from my partner

Sounds like a plan to me
consider filters/cover the intake side.. you don't need any dust
in the winter exhaust back into the room you need the heat
in summer exhaust it outside
smooth
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May 24, 2011, 07:24:06 PM
 #39

in the winter exhaust back into the room you need the heat

Just reduce the flow rate.  Get a thermostat (and a relay) for the fans.
warweed
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May 24, 2011, 07:33:48 PM
 #40

in the winter exhaust back into the room you need the heat

Just reduce the flow rate.  Get a thermostat (and a relay) for the fans.


Arduino that takes temp readings across multiple probes and adjust the fan speed based on a set base temp Smiley
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