The Basic Stupidity of the Idea of Evolution

[BADecker]

The Basic Stupidity of the Idea of Evolution

I was prompted to write this topic by all the stupid, silly evolution posts written in the "Scientific proof that God exists?" thread.

Don't take me wrong here. I am not picking on any person's thinking ability. All of us have blind spots in our thinking. All of us miss things. None of us retains memory of everything we have seen and known, with absolute, recall perfection. So, without further rhetoric, let me get right into it.

Pick a person, any person, anywhere in the world. For our purposes, let's focus on a guy named Pete, who lives in Chicago.

It is Pete's birthday today. Pete is 30-years-old today. Pete was born on February 22, 1985. His parents and many other relatives are still alive, and will attest to his birth and birthday if necessary. His birth certificate bears the signature of a doctor, and has a valid date-stamp on it. PETE REALLY IS 30-YEARS-OLD TODAY.

Did Pete exist on February 22, 1984? Did any portion of Pete exist then? Did the pattern for Pete exist then? No! None of the stuff of Pete existed on February 22, 1984. If any of the things that are part of Pete now, existed back then, they had absolutely nothing to do with Pete then. Pete did not exist then, at all.

Evolution did not take hundreds of thousands or millions of years. In the case of Pete, from February 22, 1985, to February 22, 2015, it has taken only 30 years, plus an additional approximately 9 months of his gestation period.

So what is it that might take the hundreds of thousands or millions of years? It might take scientists that long to figure out how the human body works, especially if they keep on focusing on stupid things like evolution.

What do you think?

[protokol]

I think you don't understand evolution, what you described is not evolution - rather it is the change of a single organism throughout its life, based on the information present in its DNA (and environmental factors). While its DNA may have mutated slightly over its life, it has not evolved in the accepted sense of the word.

However, small mutations in the DNA could drastically change the species/type of organism over multiple generations. Environmental changes could accelerate this process. This is what people mean when they talk about evolution.

[BADecker]

Absolutely no reason to call it evolution. There is this gigantic, miraculous change in some material. The material was rather inert before. Suddenly there is a change that produces a human being. The human being is far greater than the combined sum of its parts. This is miracle. There is so little to it that might be considered evolution, that you might as well say that there is no evolution at all.

[protokol]

Just because you consider both a single organism maturing, and a whole species changing as "miraculous", doesn't mean they are the same thing. That's why evolutionary scientists have made a different word for the latter. It's just semantics, whether you believe in it or not.

Does your main argument against evolution consist of claiming that a single organism maturing is exactly the same as a group of organisms changing over generations (due to mutations and environmental changes)? If so then you need to first understand the concept of evolution before saying it's wrong.

[Snipe85]

The Earth is so old that there could have been different worlds before the one we know. Our history reaches only a couple thousand years back and dates like 6000 BC (ancient Egypt) seem to be difficult to comprehend. An analysis of some of the oldest minerals dated them at almost 4 billion years, so there could be hundreds of evolutions in Earth's life. Civilisations were created, fell and turned to dust and from the dust came new animals that took thousands of years to evolve. Who knows, maybe our ancestors left Earth a million years ago and are now living in another galaxy. That "god" you are talking about could be an alien being that created us long ago and that "miracle" just a scientific experiment.

[bored]

I do find it more realistic than a creator who demanded everyone to worship him, killed a ton of them, then sent his self to kill him self to save us from himself.

Mutations happen at every birth. Enough of these mutations, environmental factors and distribution, things tend to change drastically.

[BADecker]

Just because you consider both a single organism maturing, and a whole species changing as "miraculous", doesn't mean they are the same thing. That's why evolutionary scientists have made a different word for the latter. It's just semantics, whether you believe in it or not.

Does your main argument against evolution consist of claiming that a single organism maturing is exactly the same as a group of organisms changing over generations (due to mutations and environmental changes)? If so then you need to first understand the concept of evolution before saying it's wrong.

Let me say it another way. Evolution suggests that hundreds of thousands, or millions of years ago, there was no life. Then some chemicals came together sort of accidentally, and accidentally formed life. Rather than dying, this life expanded into what we see nowadays: thousands of species of lots of different kinds of life all over the place.

All I am saying is, in my example man, Pete (and every living thing that exists), there was a time that the chemicals that are constituents of his body were not life. The time that they became life was 30 years ago, plus 9 months. Those chemicals went from something else to Pete. No multitudes of eras involved.

In addition, all the food that he eats is not Pete until it becomes Pete. This doesn't take long periods of time. It takes only moments.

No evolution. Certainly not in the form we know it.

[BADecker]

The Earth is so old that there could have been different worlds before the one we know. Our history reaches only a couple thousand years back and dates like 6000 BC (ancient Egypt) seem to be difficult to comprehend. An analysis of some of the oldest minerals dated them at almost 4 billion years, so there could be hundreds of evolutions in Earth's life. Civilisations were created, fell and turned to dust and from the dust came new animals that took thousands of years to evolve. Who knows, maybe our ancestors left Earth a million years ago and are now living in another galaxy. That "god" you are talking about could be an alien being that created us long ago and that "miracle" just a scientific experiment.

"The earth and universe haven't come into existence, yet. They and we are all a figment of our own imagination." How do you know this isn't true?

There isn't any proof that the earth is older than 6,000 years. There is only interpretation of a geological record that can be interpreted many ways. There are also a bunch of unknown factors that could change how we interpret all the things that we interpret.

The best that we have is the record of Moses, who was in a position as an adopted grandson of a Pharaoh, where he could read all the ancient writings from the beginning, that had been stored up in the various libraries of Egypt, at the time that Egypt was the dominant kingdom on the earth. He writes both what the records say, and the things that people handed down by word of mouth as tradition. And he writes in the form that God wants him to write.

Moses' words in the first 5 books of the Bible are what happened on earth as recorded by the eye witness who where there when the things happened. Believe the records of the witnesses, not your faulty interpretations of the geological record.

[BADecker]

I do find it more realistic than a creator who demanded everyone to worship him, killed a ton of them, then sent his self to kill him self to save us from himself.

Mutations happen at every birth. Enough of these mutations, environmental factors and distribution, things tend to change drastically.

Did you ever take a metalworking class in school? If you did, the teacher might have required you to make a screwdriver. A screwdriver is really made for one thing - to turn screws. Sometimes we use screwdrivers for things other than turning screws... like chiseling, or prying.

God made people to worship Him. Not only this, but He made them in the best way so that they could offer the best kind of worship... free will worship.

If a screwdriver doesn't work, you have your choice: fix it or throw it away. God chose to attempt to fix broken people. But it seems that the people broken by mutations into thinking that it was evolution that made people, are some of the screwdrivers that God just may not be able to fix, but will wind up throwing away.

[Snipe85]

The Earth is so old that there could have been different worlds before the one we know. Our history reaches only a couple thousand years back and dates like 6000 BC (ancient Egypt) seem to be difficult to comprehend. An analysis of some of the oldest minerals dated them at almost 4 billion years, so there could be hundreds of evolutions in Earth's life. Civilisations were created, fell and turned to dust and from the dust came new animals that took thousands of years to evolve. Who knows, maybe our ancestors left Earth a million years ago and are now living in another galaxy. That "god" you are talking about could be an alien being that created us long ago and that "miracle" just a scientific experiment.

"The earth and universe haven't come into existence, yet. They and we are all a figment of our own imagination." How do you know this isn't true?

There isn't any proof that the earth is older than 6,000 years. There is only interpretation of a geological record that can be interpreted many ways. There are also a bunch of unknown factors that could change how we interpret all the things that we interpret.

The best that we have is the record of Moses, who was in a position as an adopted grandson of a Pharaoh, where he could read all the ancient writings from the beginning, that had been stored up in the various libraries of Egypt, at the time that Egypt was the dominant kingdom on the earth. He writes both what the records say, and the things that people handed down by word of mouth as tradition. And he writes in the form that God wants him to write.

Moses' words in the first 5 books of the Bible are what happened on earth as recorded by the eye witness who where there when the things happened. Believe the records of the witnesses, not your faulty interpretations of the geological record.

Actually there is. For example this temple was built over 9000 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

What about dinosaurs? You want us to believe they lived less than 6000 years ago?

[BADecker]

The Earth is so old that there could have been different worlds before the one we know. Our history reaches only a couple thousand years back and dates like 6000 BC (ancient Egypt) seem to be difficult to comprehend. An analysis of some of the oldest minerals dated them at almost 4 billion years, so there could be hundreds of evolutions in Earth's life. Civilisations were created, fell and turned to dust and from the dust came new animals that took thousands of years to evolve. Who knows, maybe our ancestors left Earth a million years ago and are now living in another galaxy. That "god" you are talking about could be an alien being that created us long ago and that "miracle" just a scientific experiment.

"The earth and universe haven't come into existence, yet. They and we are all a figment of our own imagination." How do you know this isn't true?

There isn't any proof that the earth is older than 6,000 years. There is only interpretation of a geological record that can be interpreted many ways. There are also a bunch of unknown factors that could change how we interpret all the things that we interpret.

The best that we have is the record of Moses, who was in a position as an adopted grandson of a Pharaoh, where he could read all the ancient writings from the beginning, that had been stored up in the various libraries of Egypt, at the time that Egypt was the dominant kingdom on the earth. He writes both what the records say, and the things that people handed down by word of mouth as tradition. And he writes in the form that God wants him to write.

Moses' words in the first 5 books of the Bible are what happened on earth as recorded by the eye witness who where there when the things happened. Believe the records of the witnesses, not your faulty interpretations of the geological record.

Actually there is. For example this temple was built over 9000 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

What about dinosaurs? You want us to believe they lived less than 6000 years ago?

The temple is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Interpretive dating. Nobody knows for a fact how old the temple is, but it might be lots younger, and only interpreted to be older.

There is nothing wrong with the idea of dinosaurs dying out in the Great Flood of Noah's day, around 4,500 years ago. It's just that we have heard it said differently for such a long time, that we wouldn't believe it if we saw it using a time viewer that could look back then.

[buyandhold]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oogenesis

some of Pete's dna was in his mum before she was born

[legendster]

So why dont you people just praise your lord and live in churches ? Leave the rest of the world to us reasonable idiots who wont believe in any silly genesis theory of your bible/quran/geeta.

Based on your explanation I can say that right now neither of those holy books exist because I havent seen them, they will only exist if I can see them being written by the oh holy lord of god or whatever superior being is up there according to you.

Look, evolution WAS a theory but it is a fact now, go ahead and do your own experiments and come to your own logical conclusions instead of waging a philosophical online thread war.

[Lethn]

Look, evolution WAS a theory but it is a fact now, go ahead and do your own experiments and come to your own logical conclusions instead of waging a philosophical online thread war.  

That would require intelligence he doesn't have, I agree that religious people should keep to the churches, when I see them trying to infiltrate our governments and our school systems that's when I get pissy about it and too many of them keep trying. The scientific minded will always have an advantage over the pious because they always seek the truth even if it challenges their own beliefs, the pious however don't which is why we'd be all stuck in the dark ages if they had their way.

[legendster]

Look, evolution WAS a theory but it is a fact now, go ahead and do your own experiments and come to your own logical conclusions instead of waging a philosophical online thread war.  

That would require intelligence he doesn't have, I agree that religious people should keep to the churches, when I see them trying to infiltrate our governments and our school systems that's when I get pissy about it and too many of them keep trying. The scientific minded will always have an advantage over the pious because they always seek the truth even if it challenges their own beliefs, the pious however don't which is why we'd be all stuck in the dark ages if they had their way.

I was religious as a kid growing up in a religious Indian middle class family and as a kid I was able to understand the stupidity of religion, I just dont get it that if I - not the most intelligent guy on the planet - can get how stupid & baseless religion really is as a KID why cant these so called grown ups do that as well ?

[Lethn]

Look, evolution WAS a theory but it is a fact now, go ahead and do your own experiments and come to your own logical conclusions instead of waging a philosophical online thread war.  

That would require intelligence he doesn't have, I agree that religious people should keep to the churches, when I see them trying to infiltrate our governments and our school systems that's when I get pissy about it and too many of them keep trying. The scientific minded will always have an advantage over the pious because they always seek the truth even if it challenges their own beliefs, the pious however don't which is why we'd be all stuck in the dark ages if they had their way.

I was religious as a kid growing up in a religious Indian middle class family and as a kid I was able to understand the stupidity of religion, I just dont get it that if I - not the most intelligent guy on the planet - can get how stupid & baseless religion really is as a KID why cant these so called grown ups do that as well ?

I'm sure it would be due to all sorts of reasons based on their upbringing and such, niether one of them quite being the same, but as far as I'm concerned, none of them should hold any kind of political power, even capitalists and communists of the absolute extremes tend to agree on this.

[Buffer Overflow]

What do you think?

I think this is one of your pointless religious preaching threads.

[BADecker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oogenesis

some of Pete's dna was in his mum before she was born

But it wasn't part of Pete's DNA before he existed.

[BitMos]

Environmental changes could accelerate this process.

"aliens" need higher radioactive background than actual life on Earth... apparently the toxicer the better for "them", who/what ever they may be. to the void.

YOur history reaches only a couple thousand years back and dates like 6000 BC (ancient Egypt) seem to be difficult to comprehend. An analysis of some of the oldest minerals dated them at almost 4 billion years, so there could be hundreds of evolutions in Earth's life. Civilisations were created, fell and turned to dust and from the dust came new animals that took thousands of years to evolve. Who knows, maybe our ancestors left Earth a million years ago and are now living in another galaxy. That "god" you are talking about could be an alien being that created us long ago and that "miracle" just a scientific experiment.

(correction is mine)

typical "masson" conditioning.

What is a year? again your conditioning.

[BADecker]

So why dont you people just praise your lord and live in churches ? Leave the rest of the world to us reasonable idiots who wont believe in any silly genesis theory of your bible/quran/geeta.

Based on your explanation I can say that right now neither of those holy books exist because I havent seen them, they will only exist if I can see them being written by the oh holy lord of god or whatever superior being is up there according to you.

Look, evolution WAS a theory but it is a fact now, go ahead and do your own experiments and come to your own logical conclusions instead of waging a philosophical online thread war.

Evolution is not a theory in the lab. In the lab it is fact. It is caused by a lot of difficult, heavy duty work by a bunch of lab workers.

Evolution doesn't produce life. If it does, it doesn't happen in the way that scientists suggest. Because life for any living thing doesn't exist until that living thing comes to life. There might be some trees that are 1 or 2 thousand years old. During that time they may have evolved. The thing evolution didn't do was produce life. They came to life suddenly, and since then they have been living.

Same for people. People weren't individually alive until they came to life. It didn't take millions of years. It didn't even take one year. It happened inside of the few seconds that it took the sperm to combine with the egg. Perhaps that was evolution, but it wasn't anything like the popular theories for evolution that fill the science books these days.