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Author Topic: Inflation-based economy is a SCAM perpetuated by banks & ruling elites  (Read 2057 times)
ShadowOfHarbringer (OP)
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February 23, 2015, 10:37:20 AM
 #1

If you like this, please also upvote me on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2wuybh/inflationbased_economy_is_essentially_a_scam/
----------------------------------------------

Think about it for a minute, here are some arguments:

How inflationary economics works:
1. Value of the currency falls -> Saving under the mattress is not feasible -> So we make deposit at a bank
2. Because you cannot save under the mattress, you need a loan to invest -> You go to a bank
3. Because of taking more and more loans ( see: Money creation, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8 ), a never ending and self-sustaining debt is created in the system. You cannot ever completely repay this debt and it creates otherwise senseless investments aimed at repaying the debt -> Bank benefits
4. Because the money keeps losing value, you have to spend it -> This creates stupid, otherwise pointless consumption and production of goods & services, that are not really needed.

Cui bono ? Who benefits ? Banks of course.

However it works completely different a world based on deflationary economics:
1. Value of the currency rises -> Saving under the mattress is a valid way to make money -> Bank loses
2. Taking loans is not viable, because you would have to give back more in goods & services (+ interest) than you loaned -> Bank loses
3. Investments can be financed from savings, not loans -> Bank loses
4. Because money keep getting more value, it is not profittable to invest in weak buisnesses and buying things that you don't really need (it's better to keep the money under mattress) -> This lowers the amount of mindless consumption and increases investments into technologies that make real difference and bigger profits.

Who benefits ? Everyone except banks and over-hyped companies.

So IMO not only the deflation-based economy decreases banks' power over people, but it also shifts investments from focusing on mindless consumption gadgets into creating real change and things that matter.

Maybe the time for this centuries-old scam to end is now.

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tee-rex
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February 23, 2015, 10:55:53 AM
 #2

If you like this, please also upvote me on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2wuybh/inflationbased_economy_is_essentially_a_scam/
----------------------------------------------

Think about it for a minute, here are some arguments:

How inflationary economics works:
1. Value of the currency falls -> Saving under the mattress is not feasible -> So we make deposit at a bank
2. Because you cannot save under the mattress, you need a loan to invest -> You go to a bank
3. Because of taking more and more loans ( see: Money creation, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8 ), a never ending and self-sustaining debt is created in the system. You cannot ever completely repay this debt and it creates otherwise senseless investments aimed at repaying the debt -> Bank benefits
4. Because the money keeps losing value, you have to spend it -> This creates stupid, otherwise pointless consumption and production of goods & services, that are not really needed.

Cui bono ? Who benefits ? Banks of course.

However it works completely different a world based on deflationary economics:
1. Value of the currency rises -> Saving under the mattress is a valid way to make money -> Bank loses
2. Taking loans is not viable, because you would have to give back more in goods & services (+ interest) than you loaned -> Bank loses
3. Investments can be financed from savings, not loans -> Bank loses
4. Because money keep getting more value, it is not profittable to invest in weak buisnesses and buying things that you don't really need (it's better to keep the money under mattress) -> This lowers the amount of mindless consumption and increases investments into technologies that make real difference and bigger profits.

Who benefits ? Everyone except banks and over-hyped companies.

So IMO not only the deflation-based economy decreases banks' power over people, but it also shifts investments from focusing on mindless consumption gadgets into creating real change and things that matter.

Maybe the time for this centuries-old scam to end is now.

It has already been established long time ago (welcome Great Depression) that deflation overall is by far more damaging to the economy than small-to-medium inflation.
ShadowOfHarbringer (OP)
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February 23, 2015, 11:11:10 AM
 #3

It has already been established long time ago (welcome Great Depression) that deflation overall is by far more damaging to the economy than small-to-medium inflation.
Actually this is blatantly false.

Deflation is only deadly to inflation-based economy, which should be kind of obvious. If you base the foundation of your economy on never ending supply of money created by governments & banks, then deflation (as in decrease in the money supply) WILL be deadly. No suprise here, really.

Human economy has been based on deflation for the first few thousand years as all resources (including gold, silver, diamonds and other precious things) are finite and cannot be created on demand. Only the last century is truly inflationary.

tee-rex
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February 23, 2015, 11:28:35 AM
 #4

It has already been established long time ago (welcome Great Depression) that deflation overall is by far more damaging to the economy than small-to-medium inflation.
Actually this is blatantly false.

Deflation is only deadly to inflation-based economy, which should be kind of obvious. If you base the foundation of your economy on never ending supply of money created by governments & banks, then deflation (as in decrease in the money supply) WILL be deadly. No suprise here, really.

Human economy has been based on deflation for the first few thousand years as all resources (including gold, silver, diamonds and other precious things) are finite and cannot be created on demand. Only the last century is truly inflationary.

You forget to mention that the first few thousand years you mention human population didn't grow as it grew the last two hundred years. Deflationary economy can last only as long as scientific innovations allow producers to keep their profits on par, i.e. counteract declining prices by increasing productivity (what had been happening through the 19th century).

Just in case, deflation means decrease in prices. What you meant to say is correctly called contraction of money supply.
ShadowOfHarbringer (OP)
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February 23, 2015, 12:02:31 PM
 #5

It has already been established long time ago (welcome Great Depression) that deflation overall is by far more damaging to the economy than small-to-medium inflation.
Actually this is blatantly false.

Deflation is only deadly to inflation-based economy, which should be kind of obvious. If you base the foundation of your economy on never ending supply of money created by governments & banks, then deflation (as in decrease in the money supply) WILL be deadly. No suprise here, really.

Human economy has been based on deflation for the first few thousand years as all resources (including gold, silver, diamonds and other precious things) are finite and cannot be created on demand. Only the last century is truly inflationary.
You forget to mention that the first few thousand years you mention human population didn't grow as it grew the last two hundred years.
Why and how population grew is another discussion for another time, you are messing with things that are not related to this discussion.

Just in case, deflation means decrease in prices. What you meant to say is correctly called contraction of money supply.
By "deflation" i meant decrease in prices caused by scarce money / goods supply.

Deflationary economy can last only as long as scientific innovations allow producers to keep their profits on par, i.e. counteract declining prices by increasing productivity (what had been happening through the 19th century).
So productivity and inventions stopped/slowed down in XIX century ? Did the industrial revolution stop at the beginning of XX century ?
That is so stupid that I will not even take you seriously from now on.

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February 23, 2015, 12:05:49 PM
 #6

It has already been established long time ago (welcome Great Depression) that deflation overall is by far more damaging to the economy than small-to-medium inflation.
Actually this is blatantly false.

Deflation is only deadly to inflation-based economy, which should be kind of obvious. If you base the foundation of your economy on never ending supply of money created by governments & banks, then deflation (as in decrease in the money supply) WILL be deadly. No suprise here, really.

Human economy has been based on deflation for the first few thousand years as all resources (including gold, silver, diamonds and other precious things) are finite and cannot be created on demand. Only the last century is truly inflationary.
You forget to mention that the first few thousand years you mention human population didn't grow as it grew the last two hundred years.
Why and how population grew is another discussion for another time, you are messing with things that are not related to this discussion.

If you don't see or understand how the growth of population is related to deflation, then

That is so stupid that I will not even take you seriously from now on.
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February 24, 2015, 06:21:40 PM
 #7

Where does the supply and demand of goods and services fit into this? The primary driver of prices is supply and demand, and increase in prices is what causes inflation.

It definitely works for the banks but I don't think it's a scam perpetuated by them.

Maegfaer
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February 24, 2015, 09:40:56 PM
 #8

We should really start discerning between deflation due to a collapse in aggregate demand and deflation due to an increase in aggregate supply. The former is bad, the latter is good.

In general I am of the same mind as the OP. We need to move away from the system of Big Debt.

Btw, it's pretty funny to see Bitcoin and other "deflationary" currencies being attacked while at the same time the current supposedly "inflationary" monetary system is suffering heavily from structural deflation, despite QE and ZIRP/NIRP. Looks like the collapse in aggregate demand due to Big Debt can't be solved through expansion of the money supply. The side effects (financial bubble) will only do more damage in the end.
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February 25, 2015, 04:02:52 AM
 #9

If you like this, please also upvote me on Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2wuybh/inflationbased_economy_is_essentially_a_scam/
----------------------------------------------

Think about it for a minute, here are some arguments:

How inflationary economics works:
1. Value of the currency falls -> Saving under the mattress is not feasible -> So we make deposit at a bank
2. Because you cannot save under the mattress, you need a loan to invest -> You go to a bank
3. Because of taking more and more loans ( see: Money creation, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8 ), a never ending and self-sustaining debt is created in the system. You cannot ever completely repay this debt and it creates otherwise senseless investments aimed at repaying the debt -> Bank benefits
4. Because the money keeps losing value, you have to spend it -> This creates stupid, otherwise pointless consumption and production of goods & services, that are not really needed.

Cui bono ? Who benefits ? Banks of course.

However it works completely different a world based on deflationary economics:
1. Value of the currency rises -> Saving under the mattress is a valid way to make money -> Bank loses
2. Taking loans is not viable, because you would have to give back more in goods & services (+ interest) than you loaned -> Bank loses
3. Investments can be financed from savings, not loans -> Bank loses
4. Because money keep getting more value, it is not profittable to invest in weak buisnesses and buying things that you don't really need (it's better to keep the money under mattress) -> This lowers the amount of mindless consumption and increases investments into technologies that make real difference and bigger profits.

Who benefits ? Everyone except banks and over-hyped companies.

So IMO not only the deflation-based economy decreases banks' power over people, but it also shifts investments from focusing on mindless consumption gadgets into creating real change and things that matter.

Maybe the time for this centuries-old scam to end is now.


Totally agree. Just some clarification for the trapped minds.

It is a matter of principal order of consumption /production.
In the current debt base scam-economy, (even a non) a producer can be a consumer by taking a loan, which supposed to be repaid (with interest) by production in the future. This causes several systemic flaws:
- the sole fact that i have to pay interest will cut off from some of my future production, in behalf the loaner, who produce nothing, just prints new money;
- this alone can increase the price of goods, by debting them with the interest rate;
- plus the money supply grows faster - for it takes no production to create "money" - than the production of new goods. Producers have to spend some share of the value of their products to repay debt, resulting in no actual growth of the value of consumable products on the marketplace;
- the present value of money is always higher than future value, so everyone has an incentive to spend it NOW (on consumer product, investing in making of those products), creating consumerism, by trying to avoid wealth depletion;
- this creates unjustified and distorted supply and demand curves, like example buying real estate for irrationally high prices, without real demand, and enters housing bubble...or ever increasing stock and bond market while real physical commodities crushing (like oil)... Also it indebted almost every single government in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt which they can never repay.

In an asset based (no fractional reserving, only real savings - not consuming in the present) economy, production can only grow as big as there is real demand for it by savers' - who are consumers! - loans looking for a net increase in wealth, not for to avoid wealth depreciation, but to actually increase their wealth more than it would by deflating money.

People only consume what they think is better value in the present than the increased value of their future savings (marginal utility of present goods is higher than increased amount of future goods bought with deflating money).

In this model production has to be before consumption, since there is no debt to build upon production, we can only build upon savings - assets already made by productive work, not by "printing" money!.
That is a huge difference, and the reality and as You have mention, the last thousands of years show this is the only way in the long run.
V for Varoufakis
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February 25, 2015, 08:05:47 AM
 #10

No, it is not a scam. Interest and fractional reserve banking is a scam.
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February 25, 2015, 10:17:20 PM
 #11

No, it is not a scam. Interest and fractional reserve banking is a scam.

This

If people continuously dig out more gold than trade-able goods, then inflation is also possible

ShadowOfHarbringer (OP)
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February 26, 2015, 12:16:30 PM
 #12

No, it is not a scam. Interest and fractional reserve banking is a scam.
This
If people continuously dig out more gold than trade-able goods, then inflation is also possible

For that to happen, the total % increase of gold digged out of the ground would have to be bigger than total % increase of goods & services in the economy.

It is possible, but not very probably.

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February 27, 2015, 05:02:03 AM
Last edit: February 27, 2015, 05:43:53 AM by username18333
 #13



Quote from: William Jennings Bryan. “No Cross of Gold.” 116. 27 Feb. 235. link=http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/crossofgold.html
Why is it that within three months such a change has come over the country? Three months ago when it was confidently asserted that those who believed in the gold standard would frame our platform and nominate our candidates, even the advocates of the gold standard did not think that we could elect a President. And they had good reason for their doubt, because there is scarcely a State here today asking for the gold standard which is not in the absolute control of the Republic Party. But note the change. Mr. McKinley was nominated at St. Louis upon a platform which declared for the maintenance of the gold standard until it can be changed into bimetallism by international agreement. Mr. McKinley was the most popular man among the Republicans, and three months ago everybody in the Republican Party prophesied his election. How is it today? Why, the man who was once pleased to think that he looked like Napoleon-that man shudders today when he remembers that he was nominated on the anniversary of the battle of Waterloo....

[…]

No, my friends, that will never be the verdict of our people. Therefore, we care not upon what lines the battle is fought. If they say bimetallism is good, but that we cannot have it until other nations help us, we reply, that instead of having a gold standard because England has, we will restore bimetallism, and then let England have bimetallism because the United States has it. If they dare to come out in the open field and defend the gold standard as a good thing, we will fight them to the uttermost. Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.
(Red colorization and emphasis mine.)




Quote from: Leo Tolstoy link=http://izquotes.com/quote/273222
The truth is that the State is a conspiracy designed not only to exploit, but above all to corrupt its citizens… Henceforth, I shall never serve any government anywhere.

Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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February 28, 2015, 04:23:03 AM
 #14

Mild and stable inflation is considered to be good for the economy.
Ever wondered why central banks don't have an inflation target of zero?
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February 28, 2015, 04:48:22 AM
 #15


FederalReserveRipsOffOurDollars.pdf


This document describes Some basic mechanics of the scam.

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