Advice on buying a house (Netherlands, Amsterdam)

[elasticband]

I'm aware of the risks involved with renting, the laws seem to be better than they were a few years ago, but still very pro tenant- which is fine if there is a genuine need, but I have read a lot about people taking advantage of this. This is why I'd probably choose to rent to trustworthy expats.

expats are generally ignorant to the rental laws in NL so yes good wise choice and yeah the laws have changed slightly but still favor the tenant but i think it is easier now for a landlord to make his appartment "better" than what the point system requires thus negating the ability for the tenant to use the commissie, you just need over 120-140 points on paper i think it is and your apartment you can charge whatever you want.

[elasticband]

I wouldn't be able to rent out extra rooms while living in a two bedroom- my significant other would not allow it  

I wouldn't rent out my spare room on the full time either but i would do short term rentals to friends and friends of friends when visiting the city, depending how frequently you know people visiting the city and how much the spend on private apartment rentals for a weekend, there is potential to help them out with large discounts and help yourself with an extra income and just for maybe 2 weekends of the month.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Well, I'm not intending to be greedy, so hopefully I can strike a balance if I ever come to rent it out. Even just for weekends.

Since I'm an expat I will be required to take out insurance against the mortgage, so as I think I've wrote before, it's a gamble but there are elements that mitigate this risk.

[bigtimespaghetti]

http://www.moviepilot.de/files/images/0516/1202/NEW_KIDS_TURBO9.jpg watch out for these guys  

LOL I think I get the message. Reminds me of the UK a lot.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Just another thing, I really appreciate all the advice, pointers and general chat. It's helped somewhat put things a little more into perspective. Keep em coming guys! And if this thread starts to slow down I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes!

[grendel25]

Not concerned about language barriers?  Don't they speak Dutch there?  It's wierd there are tax breaks but then punitive taxes?  I'd be interested to live there too just because the liberal and progressive ideas seem to be more free.

[bigtimespaghetti]

Not concerned about language barriers?  Don't they speak Dutch there?  It's wierd there are tax breaks but then punitive taxes?  I'd be interested to live there too just because the liberal and progressive ideas seem to be more free.

Most everyone with a decent level of education knows English, also I am starting Dutch lessons this month, so language is not much of an issue.

Liberal and progressive mean different things than perhaps when a libertarian would say them. The Dutch are very tolerant - in the common zeitgeist sense of the word. On the flip side they have extremely harsh 'hate speech' laws. Similar to the UK. But yes, as long as you're not a racist nut job you're fine In fact, I feel safer and more comfortable here than I ever did in any city in the UK, perhaps that is more free, but honestly the West has a fairly common baseline of freedom in comparison to say- China or Russia. There are still junkies and agressive assholes around, but to a far smaller degree than London. Where are you from grendal25?

The taxes are strange- you get breaks when paying a mortgage, but every year you pay a tax on ownership. The taxes are to incentivise ownership (tax break) but to disincentivise the monopolisation of property by wealthy landlords (I assume, yearly percentage taxation). Because the market is so distorted despite the yearly tax it is still cheaper to own than to rent.

Any Dutch here please correct me if I am wrong in my explanations.

[iamback]

I know you are trying to talk yourself into doing it. Moving to NL was the wise move, but not if you fall into the debt trap there!

Save up your cash to buy BTC at the coming bottom below $150, then get rich and pay cash for very cheap houses in 2017 or 2018.

Don't turn yourself into a debt slave like this other fools who are commenting in your thread.

The confidence party ends in Europe in 2016.

You know I agree that the direction the West is going is not good. I am just wondering if this can kicking cannot go on for a long time yet- just look at the freak show in Greece right now, it's like watching a punch and judy show. I think that there is some argument that as everything is falling apart, real estate in affluent major cities could retain some safety- see London for example where wealthy multinationals have been buying up huge chunks of houses, largely French and Chinese.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/02/consumer-credit-moving-higher-into-2015-75/

Subprime consumer borrowing — encompassing auto loans, credit card loans and personal loans — climbed to $189 billion in the first 11 months last year, the highest total since 2007, according to a study compiled for The Wall Street Journal by Equifax. This is precisely what I mean about living with the cycle. People will spend when they SEE everyone else spending. This provides the foundation to consumer confidence. This is why the rich are important. If they are driving around in flashy cars and going out to dinner, not only are they spending, they are creating the impression everything is OK and this becomes the contagion that spreads as consumer confidence. If they spend nothing and save, the rest of society will follow. It is an interesting leadership role.

[bigtimespaghetti]

The confidence party ends in Europe in 2016.

You know I agree that the direction the West is going is not good. I am just wondering if this can kicking cannot go on for a long time yet- just look at the freak show in Greece right now, it's like watching a punch and judy show. I think that there is some argument that as everything is falling apart, real estate in affluent major cities could retain some safety- see London for example where wealthy multinationals have been buying up huge chunks of houses, largely French and Chinese.

*snip*

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/02/consumer-credit-moving-higher-into-2015-75/

Subprime consumer borrowing — encompassing auto loans, credit card loans and personal loans — climbed to $189 billion in the first 11 months last year, the highest total since 2007, according to a study compiled for The Wall Street Journal by Equifax. This is precisely what I mean about living with the cycle. People will spend when they SEE everyone else spending. This provides the foundation to consumer confidence. This is why the rich are important. If they are driving around in flashy cars and going out to dinner, not only are they spending, they are creating the impression everything is OK and this becomes the contagion that spreads as consumer confidence. If they spend nothing and save, the rest of society will follow. It is an interesting leadership role.

The idea that we are in some protracted dead cat bounce before the shitshow begins lines up with Armstrong's posts, which I have some familiarity with, but not in-depth. I will have to read his past reports for perhaps a more long term view. Definitely something to consider.

It's a hard decision, on both hands there seem to be logical and emotional reasons to buy/abstain.

[iamback]

I edited my prior post. There is no doubt that Europe will be in severe crisis by 2017. If you can't hedge the decline in the value of the house, then don't dare do it unless you are sure you can sustain a multi-year (probably decades) waiting period for the value to come back up again (and that your income to pay the mortgage can't be in jeopardy when Europe collapses starting next year). That is what the Armstrong link I gave you said.

Right now the strongest economies of Europe are receiving an influx of capital because capital is fleeing the peripheral economies of the world which are already collapsing. But this contagion will spread to the core of Europe next year. Germany's DAX will peak Oct. 2015, then collapse into an abyss. Then capital will flee to the USA. Then the USA dollar and stock markets will peak in 2017, and then we collapse into war by 2017 or 2018.

[neoneros]

Just another thing, I really appreciate all the advice, pointers and general chat. It's helped somewhat put things a little more into perspective. Keep em coming guys! And if this thread starts to slow down I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes!

If you need some more advice pointers and a general chat feel free to invite yourself for some beer/coffee/tea. Might be good for your language skills too

[bigtimespaghetti]

Just another thing, I really appreciate all the advice, pointers and general chat. It's helped somewhat put things a little more into perspective. Keep em coming guys! And if this thread starts to slow down I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes!

If you need some more advice pointers and a general chat feel free to invite yourself for some beer/coffee/tea. Might be good for your language skills too

Honestly my Dutch is only good for ordering beer. I understand the gist of it rather than being able to formulate any logical responses. It helps that it's latin based and there are obvious similarities with Engels.

Give me a couple of months of my lessons and hopefully I'll be able to ask for more than a beer!

[countryfree]

Honestly my Dutch is only good for ordering beer.

Of course, you've got to set yourself priorities when you learn a new language. 

[bigtimespaghetti]

Honestly my Dutch is only good for ordering beer.

Of course, you've got to set yourself priorities when you learn a new language. 

LOL yes I know it's pretty shameful. I have been listening to lessons to get familiar with it, but ever since my company told me they will be paying for formal lessons this month I've been a bit of a slacker.

[bigtimespaghetti]

expats are generally ignorant to the rental laws in NL so yes good wise choice and yeah the laws have changed slightly but still favor the tenant but i think it is easier now for a landlord to make his appartment "better" than what the point system requires thus negating the ability for the tenant to use the commissie, you just need over 120-140 points on paper i think it is and your apartment you can charge whatever you want.

Another thought- I certainly will be making sure the property is above average. While the quality of rental accommodation is better than the UK, it's still way below what is possible with a few weekends of work and some trips to Ikea!

[Jybrael]

I would say go for it mate. If you feel that the investment will be worth it for you in the future even though Europe is kind of experiencing a decline in economy..why not? Its something you want...so follow your heart mate. You do have the choice to get things and you know pamper yourself a little bit from time to time.

[iamback]

Unfortunately I think you are set on destroying yourself, but in any case, I will offer some math to try to convince you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg10650637#msg10650637

[bigtimespaghetti]

Unfortunately I think you are set on destroying yourself, but in any case, I will offer some math to try to convince you:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg10650637#msg10650637

Thanks iamback, despite what I write I've not fully made a decision yet.

[bigtimespaghetti]

This is an interesting chart and an interesting historical record of housing prices in the Herengracht canal ring:

https://hotelivory.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/a-very-long-view-on-house-prices/



It's a shame that it doesn't come up to 2015, but that's quite easily to imagine.

[iamback]

I am confident you can find a way to justify to yourself to buy high and sell low, if that is what you really want.