A story about Barney, the 10K Prospector

[Mortimer452]

A story about Barney, the 10K Prospector

There has been alot of FUD lately about the price of 10K dropping, and I wanted to illustrate just exactly how much this doesn't matter.

Just like Fred, Barney is imaginary, but this situation is not hypothetical, this is fact based on real numbers.  The chart below is based on actual BTC/USD values taken from the Winkdex and actual BTC/10K daily closes from Bittrex.

I had to remove the red line indicating size of 10K wallet on this chart - it just goes up so damn fast, it throws the whole thing out of whack

BLUE line indicates BTC/USD value expressed in $USD
GREEN line indicates $USD value of Barney's 10K wallet


Barney purchased 500 10K from Bittrex on the day the market opened, at a price of 85,357 Satoshi per 10K.  The $USD value of his 10K at that time was $97.44 and the BTCBTC value of his wallet was 0.43 BTC.  He immediately transferred these 10K to his personal wallet and began staking.

Today, the price of 10K is a mere 1,650 Satoshi, which is an enormous drop from his purchasing price.  Is Barney upset?  Not at all.

Based on 10K's 10,000% annual interest rate, compounded daily, by February 23 his wallet now contains 63,339 10K, an increase of over 12,000%.  His ending 10K $USD wallet value is $248.66 or BTC1.05

The price of BTC/10K dropped by 98.07%
The price of BTC/USD increased by 4.22%
The $USD value of Barney's MMXIV wallet increased by 155.21% from $97.44 to $248.66
The BTCBTC value of Barney's MMXIV wallet increased by 144.88% from 0.43 BTC to 1.05 BTC
The number of 10K coins in Barney's wallet increased by 12,567.96% from 500 10K to 63,339.81 10K

TWENTY DAYS.  More than double return on investment.

As always, if you doubt any of this, the raw data used to perform these calculations can be found here

[claycoins]

looks like a race down to 1 satoshi, buy orders are already below 1k now.

[real789]

very interesting about 10k iam stake it everyday and hope pumper come to buy 10k inhigh price 

[picolo]

looks like a race down to 1 satoshi, buy orders are already below 1k now.

When it is 1 satoshi, it cannot go down more in satoshi...

[iGotSpots]

looks like a race down to 1 satoshi, buy orders are already below 1k now.

When it is 1 satoshi, it cannot go down more in satoshi...

If only there was a LTC (or other secondary) market...

If only.....................

[baldpope]

If only there was a LTC (or other secondary) market...

If only.....................

Yea, I'd like to see an LTC or DRK market/exchange for 10K and/or MMXIV.  It's one of the reasons I liked trading on Cryptsy, with the different trading markets.

[runpaint]

It's the definition of a pyramid scheme.  The only way to make money is by dumping the worthless coins to more and more people, and the final bagholders will lose all their money.

[iGotSpots]

It's the definition of a pyramid scheme.  The only way to make money is by dumping the worthless coins to more and more people, and the final bagholders will lose all their money.

Except nobody at the top makes shit from anyone below. Nice example 

[runpaint]

It's the definition of a pyramid scheme.  The only way to make money is by dumping the worthless coins to more and more people, and the final bagholders will lose all their money.

Except nobody at the top makes shit from anyone below. Nice example 

I guess you're saying it's a Ponzi scheme rather than a pyramid, but it can be described either way depending on which definitions you're using. 

Because of the hyperinflation built-in to the coin, it is designed to become more and more worthless.  The people who get in at the top make the most money, since they can start dumping their stake rewards while the price is relatively high.  The people they sell to are the next level down, who can sell their stake rewards for less than the top level, but still at a profit.  The second level is selling to the third level of people, and it will be much less likely for them to make any money because everybody in crypto who wanted to buy in has already bought in by that point. 

If we could get an honest answer from the person who made this coin, I'm sure he would say that he intended the coin to function that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public

 

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/042104.asp

The Fraud

The problem is that the scheme cannot go on forever, because there are a finite number of people who can join the scheme (even if all the people in the world were to join). People are deceived into believing that by giving money, they will make more money; however, no wealth has been created, no product has been sold, no investment has been made, and no service has been provided.

The fraud lies in the fact that it is impossible for the cycle to sustain itself, so people will lose their money somewhere down the line. Those who are most vulnerable are those toward the bottom of the pyramid, where it becomes impossible to recruit the number of people required to pay off the previous layer of recruiters. This kind of fraud is illegal in the U.S. and most countries throughout the world. It is estimated that 90% of people who get involved in a pyramid scheme will lose their money.

[iGotSpots]

It's the definition of a pyramid scheme.  The only way to make money is by dumping the worthless coins to more and more people, and the final bagholders will lose all their money.

Except nobody at the top makes shit from anyone below. Nice example  

I guess you're saying it's a Ponzi scheme rather than a pyramid, but it can be described either way depending on which definitions you're using.  

Because of the hyperinflation built-in to the coin, it is designed to become more and more worthless.  The people who get in at the top make the most money, since they can start dumping their stake rewards while the price is relatively high.  The people they sell to are the next level down, who can sell their stake rewards for less than the top level, but still at a profit.  The second level is selling to the third level of people, and it will be much less likely for them to make any money because everybody in crypto who wanted to buy in has already bought in by that point.  

If we could get an honest answer from the person who made this coin, I'm sure he would say that he intended the coin to function that way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public

 

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/042104.asp

The Fraud

The problem is that the scheme cannot go on forever, because there are a finite number of people who can join the scheme (even if all the people in the world were to join). People are deceived into believing that by giving money, they will make more money; however, no wealth has been created, no product has been sold, no investment has been made, and no service has been provided.

The fraud lies in the fact that it is impossible for the cycle to sustain itself, so people will lose their money somewhere down the line. Those who are most vulnerable are those toward the bottom of the pyramid, where it becomes impossible to recruit the number of people required to pay off the previous layer of recruiters. This kind of fraud is illegal in the U.S. and most countries throughout the world. It is estimated that 90% of people who get involved in a pyramid scheme will lose their money.

So if it's a ponzi, then where is my giant fund that I'm using to pay people back? Oh wait, the blockchain must be running the ponzi  

Honestly, you are proving how unlike either of these they are, so please...continue

[wormbog]

Folks, there is no future for 10k. The interest rate is simply too high. You can use a compound interest calculator online to see what I mean. Here's the one I used:

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

Let's say you buy with a single 10k coin and start staking. Using a 10,000% interest rate and daily compounding, your one coin will grow thusly:

Month 1 - 1,579
Month 2 - 2,495,966
Month 3 - 3,943,284,117
Month 4 - 6,229,847,648,442
Month 5 - 9,842,304,172,222,498
Month 6 - 15,549,489,632,025,366,528

You're reading that correctly, in 6 months a single 10k coin will have staked its way up to over 15 QUINTILLION coins.

[runpaint]

so please...continue

Ok, since you asked.

I'll come back after some time has passed and see if anyone is still making money with this coin.

Of course, your answer will be "Plenty of people made money", and you'll be referring to the people at the top of the pyramid who made money from all the people below them.  

[hellscabane]

Folks, there is no future for 10k. The interest rate is simply too high. You can use a compound interest calculator online to see what I mean. Here's the one I used:

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

Let's say you buy with a single 10k coin and start staking. Using a 10,000% interest rate and daily compounding, your one coin will grow thusly:

Month 1 - 1,579
Month 2 - 2,495,966
Month 3 - 3,943,284,117
Month 4 - 6,229,847,648,442
Month 5 - 9,842,304,172,222,498
Month 6 - 15,549,489,632,025,366,528

You're reading that correctly, in 6 months a single 10k coin will have staked its way up to over 15 QUINTILLION coins.

Yep, this would be the case if the nominal interest rate is 10000% per annum compounded daily.

I haven't looked at the code for this coin; but if this is the case, anyone with a modicum of financial knowledge would know how stupidly unsustainable this is. You don't need an experiment to show that.

[OverEasy]

So should we just sell off whats left in our wallets and call it a day?
Or hope for some cool shit Spots might come up with to raise the value.

I tripled my investment. I think I'll just let 'er stake and see what happens

[iGotSpots]

Why do people think the 10,000% was the Experiment? The massive amount of inputs is what we needed to test, which is also why it starts staking after only an hour...the stake rate was just set at 10,000% so I had a round number to use. It was never even intended to be launched; people were begging me to post a version of the chain we use to test shit, so I did

[hellscabane]

Why do people think the 10,000% was the Experiment? The massive amount of inputs is what we needed to test, which is also why it starts staking after only an hour...the stake rate was just set at 10,000% so I had a round number to use. It was never even intended to be launched; people were begging me to post a version of the chain we use to test shit, so I did

I just read up on your ANN, and you said it pretty clearly there. Let me be clear, my statement wasn't a criticism on you for releasing this coin, more of a critique on those who are lampooning the sustainable profitability of this coin.

That said, I'm confident you complicitly made a profit with this coin too.

[iGotSpots]

Why do people think the 10,000% was the Experiment? The massive amount of inputs is what we needed to test, which is also why it starts staking after only an hour...the stake rate was just set at 10,000% so I had a round number to use. It was never even intended to be launched; people were begging me to post a version of the chain we use to test shit, so I did

I just read up on your ANN, and you said it pretty clearly there. Let me be clear, my statement wasn't a criticism on you for releasing this coin, more of a critique on those who are lampooning the sustainable profitability of this coin.

That said, I'm confident you complicitly made a profit with this coin too.

You can only profit if you sell. I'm #1 on the rich list of all 3 coins and still buying

[runpaint]

So if it's a ponzi, then where is my giant fund

I'm #1 on the rich list of all 3 coins

[iGotSpots]

So if it's a ponzi, then where is my giant fund

I'm #1 on the rich list of all 3 coins

Am I not allowed to BUY my own coins...? I don't understand. I spent my own money, I didn't ask for anyone else to contribute to my fund. I bought them all on the exchanges, same chance as everyone else

[wormbog]

So should we just sell off whats left in our wallets and call it a day?
Or hope for some cool shit Spots might come up with to raise the value.

I tripled my investment. I think I'll just let 'er stake and see what happens

Personally I made a small profit and am now staking to see how many coins I get before the whole thing breaks down.

I wouldn't buy any more at this point.