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Author Topic: [GLBSE] GIPPT Delisting 100% paid.  (Read 18850 times)
DeaDTerra
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August 06, 2012, 11:17:45 AM
 #61

1400 bonds left Smiley
//DeaDTerra
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DeaDTerra
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August 08, 2012, 03:29:58 PM
 #62

hey guys!
only 3 hours and 28 minutes left until the dividend is going to be paid out!
So go get the last bonds while you can Cheesy
Only 700 left!
//DeaDTerra
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August 08, 2012, 08:02:01 PM
 #63

Dividend was paid out at 21:02, 0.025 BTC per bond!
//DeaDTerra
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August 09, 2012, 04:42:25 PM
 #64

Greetings,

I would like to ask:

Since these bonds are essentially a 1 btc pass-through to pirate, are they always worth 1 btc?  If a buyer request a withdrawal is that allowed?  Specifically I am worried that if pirate were to drops his rate to say... 1% then you would correspondingly drop yours to .5% or so and then the market value of the bonds might drop to much lower than 1 btc.  I would prefer to issue a withdrawal at that point rather than lose face value.

Thanks-
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August 09, 2012, 05:50:41 PM
 #65

Greetings,

I would like to ask:

Since these bonds are essentially a 1 btc pass-through to pirate, are they always worth 1 btc?  If a buyer request a withdrawal is that allowed?  Specifically I am worried that if pirate were to drops his rate to say... 1% then you would correspondingly drop yours to .5% or so and then the market value of the bonds might drop to much lower than 1 btc.  I would prefer to issue a withdrawal at that point rather than lose face value.

Thanks-
+1
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August 09, 2012, 10:07:56 PM
 #66

Greetings,

I would like to ask:

Since these bonds are essentially a 1 btc pass-through to pirate, are they always worth 1 btc?  If a buyer request a withdrawal is that allowed?  Specifically I am worried that if pirate were to drops his rate to say... 1% then you would correspondingly drop yours to .5% or so and then the market value of the bonds might drop to much lower than 1 btc.  I would prefer to issue a withdrawal at that point rather than lose face value.

Thanks-
+1
I will answer it like this.
1 BTC in pirate is worth 1 BTC on GLBSE once it's withdrawn. I can arrange for larger investors if they want to trade out. But I can't keep a bid wall up all the time.
If there's need for one, then I will place once. I am fair towards my investors as I am one of them Wink
But I can't promise I will always keep a bid wall, as I don't have the capital to sit and root on GLBSE, sorry.
//DeaDTerra
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August 09, 2012, 10:27:38 PM
 #67

Good answer, but I would like a little further clarification just because I don't see the answer-

Someday (in non-default based future), Pirate will drop his service and return all deposits.  What happens at that point?  I assume since you got all the deposits returned to you, you will turn around and buy back all shares @1 btc.  Correct?

How big does someone have to be to ask for a direct withdrawal?  Is there any price point of GIPPT where you would consider initiating a small pirate withdrawal specifically to buy back shares on GLBSE and cancel out the shares?  If you don't do this then I think you are earning interest yourself on value that is no longer present in the market you created... it's an interesting position to be in.

Apologize if these are dumb questions, I like your fund.

Thank you-
DeaDTerra
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August 09, 2012, 10:34:57 PM
 #68

Good answer, but I would like a little further clarification just because I don't see the answer-

Someday (in non-default based future), Pirate will drop his service and return all deposits.  What happens at that point?  I assume since you got all the deposits returned to you, you will turn around and buy back all shares @1 btc.  Correct?

How big does someone have to be to ask for a direct withdrawal?  Is there any price point of GIPPT where you would consider initiating a small pirate withdrawal specifically to buy back shares on GLBSE and cancel out the shares?  If you don't do this then I think you are earning interest yourself on value that is no longer present in the market you created... it's an interesting position to be in.

Apologize if these are dumb questions, I like your fund.

Thank you-
That is correct then I will either ask nefario for a force buy back or place a ask wall to buy all of them back Smiley

I don't have any threshold but to withdraw from pirate, then transfer the funds to me then sending it to you after you transfered the shares to me, is just a hazzle okay. I would like to be able to offer this service for any amount, but my time is limited. So I won't say a limit, but keep that in mind Smiley
I am sure the bids will bounce up again after a couple of weeks of dividends, I think the bonds are worth hell of a lot more then they are currently, which is kind of sad to see Sad You guys don't like the asset?

They are not dumb at all, there are no dumb answers Smiley
Thank you very kind of you Cheesy
//DeaDTerra
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August 09, 2012, 11:00:13 PM
 #69

Good answer, but I would like a little further clarification just because I don't see the answer-

Someday (in non-default based future), Pirate will drop his service and return all deposits.  What happens at that point?  I assume since you got all the deposits returned to you, you will turn around and buy back all shares @1 btc.  Correct?

How big does someone have to be to ask for a direct withdrawal?  Is there any price point of GIPPT where you would consider initiating a small pirate withdrawal specifically to buy back shares on GLBSE and cancel out the shares?  If you don't do this then I think you are earning interest yourself on value that is no longer present in the market you created... it's an interesting position to be in.

Apologize if these are dumb questions, I like your fund.

Thank you-
I think the bonds are worth hell of a lot more then they are currently, which is kind of sad to see Sad You guys don't like the asset?
The bonds are worth more than 1.2 BTC, by my math. The market is simply saturated. 1 BTC is a joke for them, because then there's 0 risk for the investor of a pirate default. Pirate defaults, I don't lose anything. And that is why I pulled out of YARR and won't be buying Goat's bond.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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August 09, 2012, 11:11:52 PM
 #70

Good answer, but I would like a little further clarification just because I don't see the answer-

Someday (in non-default based future), Pirate will drop his service and return all deposits.  What happens at that point?  I assume since you got all the deposits returned to you, you will turn around and buy back all shares @1 btc.  Correct?

How big does someone have to be to ask for a direct withdrawal?  Is there any price point of GIPPT where you would consider initiating a small pirate withdrawal specifically to buy back shares on GLBSE and cancel out the shares?  If you don't do this then I think you are earning interest yourself on value that is no longer present in the market you created... it's an interesting position to be in.

Apologize if these are dumb questions, I like your fund.

Thank you-
I think the bonds are worth hell of a lot more then they are currently, which is kind of sad to see Sad You guys don't like the asset?
The bonds are worth more than 1.2 BTC, by my math. The market is simply saturated. 1 BTC is a joke for them, because then there's 0 risk for the investor of a pirate default. Pirate defaults, I don't lose anything. And that is why I pulled out of YARR and won't be buying Goat's bond.
It is not zero risk.  If pirate defaults, you have to hope that ineedausername and imsaguy, who are both heavily invested in pirate, do not default on the insurance.

Remember this:
Logic question.

Supposedly, someone offers to lock up 5k in escrow and then insure 5k pirate coins with it, paying 2.5% interest to customers on them. If the same person were to just place the 5k into BS&T and take the whole interest himself, he would never have more risk, but always more profit.

I don't see why anyone would make such an offer.

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DeaDTerra
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August 09, 2012, 11:17:28 PM
 #71

Good answer, but I would like a little further clarification just because I don't see the answer-

Someday (in non-default based future), Pirate will drop his service and return all deposits.  What happens at that point?  I assume since you got all the deposits returned to you, you will turn around and buy back all shares @1 btc.  Correct?

How big does someone have to be to ask for a direct withdrawal?  Is there any price point of GIPPT where you would consider initiating a small pirate withdrawal specifically to buy back shares on GLBSE and cancel out the shares?  If you don't do this then I think you are earning interest yourself on value that is no longer present in the market you created... it's an interesting position to be in.

Apologize if these are dumb questions, I like your fund.

Thank you-
I think the bonds are worth hell of a lot more then they are currently, which is kind of sad to see Sad You guys don't like the asset?
The bonds are worth more than 1.2 BTC, by my math. The market is simply saturated. 1 BTC is a joke for them, because then there's 0 risk for the investor of a pirate default. Pirate defaults, I don't lose anything. And that is why I pulled out of YARR and won't be buying Goat's bond.
It is not zero risk.  If pirate defaults, you have to hope that ineedausername and imsaguy, who are both heavily invested in pirate, do not default on the insurance.

Remember this:
Logic question.

Supposedly, someone offers to lock up 5k in escrow and then insure 5k pirate coins with it, paying 2.5% interest to customers on them. If the same person were to just place the 5k into BS&T and take the whole interest himself, he would never have more risk, but always more profit.

I don't see why anyone would make such an offer.
This is indeed something you must believe otherwise only 5% is risk free.
But it can't get much safer except 100% in a offline wallet.
I have not 1, not 2 but 3 people that need to default for the bonds to reduce in value and in that case you still get my 5% Smiley
//DeaDTerra
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August 09, 2012, 11:19:04 PM
 #72

Good answer, but I would like a little further clarification just because I don't see the answer-

Someday (in non-default based future), Pirate will drop his service and return all deposits.  What happens at that point?  I assume since you got all the deposits returned to you, you will turn around and buy back all shares @1 btc.  Correct?

How big does someone have to be to ask for a direct withdrawal?  Is there any price point of GIPPT where you would consider initiating a small pirate withdrawal specifically to buy back shares on GLBSE and cancel out the shares?  If you don't do this then I think you are earning interest yourself on value that is no longer present in the market you created... it's an interesting position to be in.

Apologize if these are dumb questions, I like your fund.

Thank you-
I think the bonds are worth hell of a lot more then they are currently, which is kind of sad to see Sad You guys don't like the asset?
The bonds are worth more than 1.2 BTC, by my math. The market is simply saturated. 1 BTC is a joke for them, because then there's 0 risk for the investor of a pirate default. Pirate defaults, I don't lose anything. And that is why I pulled out of YARR and won't be buying Goat's bond.
It is not zero risk.  If pirate defaults, you have to hope that ineedausername and imsaguy, who are both heavily invested in pirate, do not default on the insurance.
Right. However, I trust INAU more than usagi. It's rather simple to factor in "likelihood to obey the contract" into calculations. Besides, it's only 20 bucks.

Quote
Remember this:
Logic question.

Supposedly, someone offers to lock up 5k in escrow and then insure 5k pirate coins with it, paying 2.5% interest to customers on them. If the same person were to just place the 5k into BS&T and take the whole interest himself, he would never have more risk, but always more profit.

I don't see why anyone would make such an offer.
1. It's always not locked up. This throws Vandroiy's entire argument out the window, mathematically.
2. GIPPT will profit if pirate does not default in 20 weeks. Therefore, GIPPT is essentially a bet against the consumer that pirate will not default. The consumer gets a win / win less scenario (they could have gotten more with direct pirate), and the issuer gets a win-lose scenario. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
3. Vandroiy is rather desperate for a pirate default. You should take this into account when reading his posts and always check his math.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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August 10, 2012, 12:18:28 AM
 #73

Quote from: dust
Remember this:
Logic question.

Supposedly, someone offers to lock up 5k in escrow and then insure 5k pirate coins with it, paying 2.5% interest to customers on them. If the same person were to just place the 5k into BS&T and take the whole interest himself, he would never have more risk, but always more profit.

I don't see why anyone would make such an offer.
1. It's always not locked up. This throws Vandroiy's entire argument out the window, mathematically.
2. GIPPT will profit if pirate does not default in 20 weeks. Therefore, GIPPT is essentially a bet against the consumer that pirate will not default. The consumer gets a win / win less scenario (they could have gotten more with direct pirate), and the issuer gets a win-lose scenario. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
3. Vandroiy is rather desperate for a pirate default. You should take this into account when reading his posts and always check his math.
Depositing money straight into pirate will profit if pirate does not default in 20 weeks.  I challenge anyone to outline a scenario that makes offering this asset better than simply investing in pirate without exposing investors to risk of default.  I PM'ed DeaDTerra two days ago with some questions about this asset and he has not yet responded.

Disclaimer: I currently hold ~20 shares of GIPPT.

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August 10, 2012, 01:10:41 AM
 #74

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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August 10, 2012, 01:30:51 AM
 #75

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.
The insurer is still at risk of default because their car's value is not tied to BTC.  Say the insurer backs the 5000btc deposit with his $55k porsche at IPO when btc are worth $11.  If btc rises to $31 again and pirate defaults, then the insurer is also in default (out ~$100k) because his car is no longer worth 5000btc.

In reality, the insurance funds are deposited with hashking and imsaguy, who may or may not default if pirate does.

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August 10, 2012, 02:39:38 AM
 #76

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.
The insurer is still at risk of default because their car's value is not tied to BTC.  Say the insurer backs the 5000btc deposit with his $55k porsche at IPO when btc are worth $11.  If btc rises to $31 again and pirate defaults, then the insurer is also in default (out ~$100k) because his car is no longer worth 5000btc.
Sigh. Roll Eyes How about I have something tied to BTC? A freshly-minted VIP donator account? In any case, your point is irrelevant.
Quote
In reality, the insurance funds are deposited with hashking and imsaguy, who may or may not default if pirate does.
Again, this is irrelevant and does not disprove my earlier scenario in which this is profitable for the issuer.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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August 10, 2012, 02:47:43 AM
 #77

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.
The insurer is still at risk of default because their car's value is not tied to BTC.  Say the insurer backs the 5000btc deposit with his $55k porsche at IPO when btc are worth $11.  If btc rises to $31 again and pirate defaults, then the insurer is also in default (out ~$100k) because his car is no longer worth 5000btc.
Sigh. Roll Eyes How about I have something tied to BTC? A freshly-minted VIP donator account? In any case, your point is irrelevant.
Quote
In reality, the insurance funds are deposited with hashking and imsaguy, who may or may not default if pirate does.
Again, this is irrelevant and does not disprove my earlier scenario in which this is profitable for the issuer.
What assets valued in btc are illiquid, besides fixed term loans? (which could easily carry some pirate exposure)  LOL @ VIP donator accounts, how do you plan to sell 100 of those with the user names already chosen?

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August 10, 2012, 03:12:32 AM
 #78

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.
The insurer is still at risk of default because their car's value is not tied to BTC.  Say the insurer backs the 5000btc deposit with his $55k porsche at IPO when btc are worth $11.  If btc rises to $31 again and pirate defaults, then the insurer is also in default (out ~$100k) because his car is no longer worth 5000btc.
Sigh. Roll Eyes How about I have something tied to BTC? A freshly-minted VIP donator account? In any case, your point is irrelevant.
Quote
In reality, the insurance funds are deposited with hashking and imsaguy, who may or may not default if pirate does.
Again, this is irrelevant and does not disprove my earlier scenario in which this is profitable for the issuer.
What assets valued in btc are illiquid, besides fixed term loans? (which could easily carry some pirate exposure)
It really doesn't matter, but there are hundreds of thousands of dollars in GLBSE securities which are valued in BTC. The alternative is that I keep my car and I'm short BTC. In that way, it's 2 gambles: the primary being that pirate doesn't default and thus I get a cut of investors' money, and the secondary being that if the primary loses, I can sell my car for more BTC than it was worth before I issued the asset. So, this scenario works with either assets valued in BTC *or* assets valued in USD with a short-BTC issuer.
Quote
  LOL @ VIP donator accounts, how do you plan to sell 100 of those with the user names already chosen?
VIP donator accounts can change their names.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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August 10, 2012, 04:40:46 AM
 #79

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.
The insurer is still at risk of default because their car's value is not tied to BTC.  Say the insurer backs the 5000btc deposit with his $55k porsche at IPO when btc are worth $11.  If btc rises to $31 again and pirate defaults, then the insurer is also in default (out ~$100k) because his car is no longer worth 5000btc.
Sigh. Roll Eyes How about I have something tied to BTC? A freshly-minted VIP donator account? In any case, your point is irrelevant.
Quote
In reality, the insurance funds are deposited with hashking and imsaguy, who may or may not default if pirate does.
Again, this is irrelevant and does not disprove my earlier scenario in which this is profitable for the issuer.
What assets valued in btc are illiquid, besides fixed term loans? (which could easily carry some pirate exposure)
It really doesn't matter, but there are hundreds of thousands of dollars in GLBSE securities which are valued in BTC. The alternative is that I keep my car and I'm short BTC. In that way, it's 2 gambles: the primary being that pirate doesn't default and thus I get a cut of investors' money, and the secondary being that if the primary loses, I can sell my car for more BTC than it was worth before I issued the asset. So, this scenario works with either assets valued in BTC *or* assets valued in USD with a short-BTC issuer.
Quote
 LOL @ VIP donator accounts, how do you plan to sell 100 of those with the user names already chosen?
VIP donator accounts can change their names.

Ok.  Using a USD based asset and being short BTC would work.  Now if only INAU posted a picture of his $55k+ car and proof of a huge short position on BTC...

TIL that VIPs can change their name.  Even so, why would someone invest in 100 VIP accounts (which are hard to sell and unlikely to go up in value) and not pirate if they didn't think he would default in the near future.

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August 10, 2012, 04:10:05 PM
 #80

How about, GIPPT will profit in 20 weeks if pirate doesn't default, AND GIPPT doesn't even need to have liquid backing capital? If I sell my car and invest it in pirate, that's one way to profit by pirate not defaulting. However, if I use my car to back other people's money in pirate, then I get a cut of their profits and can still drive my car. That's the scenario: I make the bet while retaining my capital.
The insurer is still at risk of default because their car's value is not tied to BTC.  Say the insurer backs the 5000btc deposit with his $55k porsche at IPO when btc are worth $11.  If btc rises to $31 again and pirate defaults, then the insurer is also in default (out ~$100k) because his car is no longer worth 5000btc.
Sigh. Roll Eyes How about I have something tied to BTC? A freshly-minted VIP donator account? In any case, your point is irrelevant.
Quote
In reality, the insurance funds are deposited with hashking and imsaguy, who may or may not default if pirate does.
Again, this is irrelevant and does not disprove my earlier scenario in which this is profitable for the issuer.
What assets valued in btc are illiquid, besides fixed term loans? (which could easily carry some pirate exposure)
It really doesn't matter, but there are hundreds of thousands of dollars in GLBSE securities which are valued in BTC. The alternative is that I keep my car and I'm short BTC. In that way, it's 2 gambles: the primary being that pirate doesn't default and thus I get a cut of investors' money, and the secondary being that if the primary loses, I can sell my car for more BTC than it was worth before I issued the asset. So, this scenario works with either assets valued in BTC *or* assets valued in USD with a short-BTC issuer.
Quote
  LOL @ VIP donator accounts, how do you plan to sell 100 of those with the user names already chosen?
VIP donator accounts can change their names.

Ok.  Using a USD based asset and being short BTC would work.  Now if only INAU posted a picture of his $55k+ car and proof of a huge short position on BTC...
The short position is the bond. INAU has never struck me as a poor guy, based on his BTC availability and the fact that a smart trader wouldn't put everything they have into BTC.

Quote
TIL that VIPs can change their name.  Even so, why would someone invest in 100 VIP accounts (which are hard to sell and unlikely to go up in value) and not pirate if they didn't think he would default in the near future.
Can we please drop the silly example? It has no bearing on the argument.

The point of this bond is that the backing doesn't need to be stashed in an address or in escrow. The issuer gets to have their cake and eat it too.

I recommend asking me for a signature from my GPG key before doing a trade. I will NEVER deny such a request.
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