The end of copyright and patent is where we should be headed

[runpaint]

Remember that capitalism was born around four hundred years ago, a time when violence was much more normal and acceptable than it is today.

Wow, from what you're saying apparently capitalism has drastically decreased the violence in the world.  Thanks for sharing what capitalism means to you.

[BitMos]

Remember that capitalism was born around four hundred years ago, a time when violence was much more normal and acceptable than it is today.

Wow, from what you're saying apparently capitalism has drastically decreased the violence in the world.  Thanks for sharing what capitalism means to you.

who cares most monkey don't have the intellectual output ot understand usury (even if in negative rates for now...).

[Beliathon]

Remember that capitalism was born around four hundred years ago, a time when violence was much more normal and acceptable than it is today.

Wow, from what you're saying apparently capitalism has drastically decreased the violence in the world.  Thanks for sharing what capitalism means to you.

Reason and ethics have compelled our civilization to beome less violent in spite of capitalism, the nation-state, and religion. Not because of them.

[runpaint]

capitalism could not exist without systemic violence

The opposite is true - capitalism is the only kind of economy that can exist without systemic violence.

Communism and socialism require government control backed by government violence.  Under anarchy, or the absence of any government, the only possible economy would be a free market. 

Since you argue against our freedom to keep the results of our own production, you are in favor of someone using violence to take it from us.

[runpaint]

Remember that capitalism was born around four hundred years ago, a time when violence was much more normal and acceptable than it is today.

Wow, from what you're saying apparently capitalism has drastically decreased the violence in the world.  Thanks for sharing what capitalism means to you.

Reason and ethics have compelled our civilization to beome less violent in spite of capitalism, the nation-state, and religion. Not because of them.

Then maybe we could be lucky enough to have some examples where people got rid of capitalism, the nation-state, and religion.  Any examples come to mind?  Ringing any bells?  Can you think of a time where people overthrew their government and established a society free of religion and capitalism? 

North Korea, the USSR, Cuba, China?  Did any of those experience a decrease in violence when they eliminated your main culprits? 

[Beliathon]

Then maybe we could be lucky enough to have some examples where people got rid of capitalism, the nation-state, and religion.  Any examples come to mind?  Ringing any bells?  Can you think of a time where people overthrew their government and established a society free of religion and capitalism?  

"It never happened in the past, therefore it can never happen in the future"

Your logic is dangerously shallow. Your arguments suck capitalist balls, homeslice. It was only 150 years ago that privileged fuckwits were using similar arguments to defend slavery.

[BitMos]

capitalism could not exist without systemic violence

The opposite is true - capitalism is the only kind of economy that can exist without systemic violence.

Communism and socialism require government control backed by government violence.  Under anarchy, or the absence of any government, the only possible economy would be a free market. 

Since you argue against our freedom to keep the results of our own production, you are in favor of someone using violence to take it from us.

TODAY CAPITALISM IS THE MOST VIOLENT FORM OF LIFE IN ALL GALAXIES. if you can' t get why, I don't care. Cronyism is a form of genocide, in love their is no genocide. their is no love, enjoy TW. ie total warfare, in full spectrum not definied by piker of the usmiic, but by Life it self. all segment, all spheres, nothing but pain, enjoy what you wanted to do to "like me" . I rejoice, not because of a success assured, but because you have no hope., first. the hope then it's easy to make it long (hell). you played, you pay... and who ever comes next, sorry I didn't force you, you wouldn't want that for yours... so why for me? I get it, I am not from yours... perfect I didn't want it, what ever you had is nothing compared to what the first saw... I don't even speak of Who made... beyond you. no sorry no m. ahaah. (no laugh but tears, but as it must be so, let be it).

[Beliathon]

TODAY CAPITALISM IS THE MOST VIOLENT FORM OF LIFE IN ALL GALAXIES. if you can' t get why, I don't care. Cronyism is a form of genocide, in love their is no genocide.

You may enjoy a new book called Capitalism: A Structural Genocide. I just started reading it so I can't write a review, but there's a pretty good one here:

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/16887-the-structural-genocide-that-is-capitalism#

[jaysabi]

I don't buy either of your premises. Capitalism at its core is voluntary exchange; an entirely voluntary system in which the initiation of violence harms all.

I see you are a true believer in the mythical sort of capitalism that has only ever existed in your imagination. The violence-free capitalist utopia. I read a lot about this capitalism on internet forums, yet strangely I have never read an account of it existing in history.

Remember that capitalism was born around four hundred years ago, a time when violence was much more normal and acceptable than it is today. Capitalism makes much more sense in 1700 than it does in 2015, because violence is becoming less and less legitimate.

Sorry I don't buy into your anti-capitalist excuse to use force on the unwilling. Do let me know if you ever come up with a viable alternative that is less violent than one based on voluntary exchange. I'll be waiting with bated breathe. [/s]

[runpaint]

Your logic is dangerously shallow.

And you have no logic at all.  You make claims, such as "capitalism causes violence".  Where is your evidence, or any reason at all, to support your assertions?

I have provided examples of your ideas not working, and your only answer is "Just because my ideas have never worked before doesn't mean they couldn't work in the future."  Yes, and they could also result in the same widespread death and destruction they've always caused before.

You want to gamble the lives of billions of people on these ideas - it would be bad enough if your ideas were unproven, but they're not unproven.  They're proven to be wrong. 

[Beliathon]

Sorry I don't buy into your anti-capitalist excuse to use force on the unwilling.

What are you thoughts on using force to deny a hungry person from eating?

You make claims, such as "capitalism causes violence".  Where is your evidence, or any reason at all, to support your assertions?

The evidence is all around you, you need only remove the mental blindfold the state has given you. We both know that no argument, no amount of evidence I provide here will change your mind. Still, for the benefit of others I will leave these here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

For a basic introduction to the systemic violence of capitalism, I highly recommend Zinn's "A people's history of the United States" and John Gatto's "The Underground History of American Education", the latter of which you can read free here.

[runpaint]

You make claims, such as "capitalism causes violence".  Where is your evidence, or any reason at all, to support your assertions?

The evidence is all around you, you need only remove the mental blindfold the state has given you.

But what if you're wrong, and the evidence is all around you, and you need only remove the mental blindfold your indoctrination has given you?

Then we would need to check with other things besides "evidence that I can't see".  So, it would be more like real examples that we can both see, like the USSR and North Korea.

[Beliathon]

But what if you're wrong

I'm not.

...like the USSR and North Korea.

Maybe you missed the memo, but the USSR dissolved 25 years ago. And do you seriously not recognize that both Russia and NK (and every other sovereign nation on Earth) have capitalism in 2015? This isn't 1960.

I'll grant you that North Korea is a special kind of fucked up for reasons I won't get into here, but they're still practicing capitalism... poorly.

[runpaint]

Maybe you missed the memo, but the USSR dissolved 25 years ago.

But that's impossible, according to you.  Because you said any other system would be superior to capitalism, and you're not wrong.  Therefore, the USSR is now the most prosperous nation in history.

Meanwhile, in the real world, you're wrong.

[Beliathon]

Maybe you missed the memo, but the USSR dissolved 25 years ago.

But that's impossible, according to you.  Because you said any other system would be superior to capitalism, and you're not wrong.

Try reading my words again, this time with comprehension. I said any future system would be superior to capitalism by necessity, while any past system would be just as bad as capitalism (or worse, such as feudalism or outright slavery).

[runpaint]

Try reading my words again, this time with comprehension. I said any future system would be superior to capitalism by necessity, while any past system would be just as bad as capitalism (or worse, such as feudalism or outright slavery).

Here are your words again:

Capitalism wastes food on an industrial scale. Whatever comes after will by necessity be much more efficient at resource distribution.

Whatever comes after capitalism will have to be better, because capitalism is the worst.  That's what they said before every communist revolution, and they were always wrong, and you are just as wrong.

any future system would be superior to capitalism by necessity, while any past system would be just as bad as capitalism (or worse, such as feudalism or outright slavery).

So everything will always be bad, and worse upon the next day's reflection, while nothing will ever be as good as tomorrow, which will never come.  Brilliant.

[Beliathon]

Whatever comes after capitalism will have to be better, because capitalism is the worst.  

Not because capitalism is the worst, although it is pretty awful. But because civilization socially evolves over time. Barbarism -> slavery -> feudalism -> capitalism -> whatever comes next.

I have absolutely no doubt that our grandchildren will inhabit a kinder, more compassionate world than we do. Barring any apocalypse scenario.

[CIYAM]

I think the "discussion" about capitalism should probably belong in another topic.

And I do think that creative-commons is a great example of progress in the right direction.

In regards to "branding" there are plenty of obvious fake coffee shops in China whose store names are a lot like those of famous western chains. From my perspective the key thing is "the coffee" (and the free WiFi) so assuming they have good coffee and decent WiFi I don't really care if they are "the genuine article".

[Beliathon]

I think the "discussion" about capitalism should probably belong in another topic.

Hell no, we hijacked this thread fair and square. You cannot simply steal it back from us!

Also capitalism sucks the cheese from a goat's ballsack.

[CIYAM]

Hell no, we hijacked this thread fair and square. You cannot simply steal it back from us!

I do have a reputation for locking topics that I started that run amok - but if you can entertain me then "let the show begin".