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Author Topic: This rally is a pirate bubble  (Read 8418 times)
stochastic
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August 05, 2012, 03:10:15 AM
 #41

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.


Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default.  Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not.  When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls.  If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation.  All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week.  I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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August 05, 2012, 03:15:07 AM
 #42

He'd need to be making in excess of BTC30000 profit per week to make this thing a legit business.

The best case scenario for Pirate's creditors is Pirate greatly lowers his payout.  7% per week or whatever people were mentioning last week is unsustainable.  It simply cannot be done.  Anyone believing a 7% weekly return is possible from any investment will quickly be parted from their money by get rich quick schemes.

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August 05, 2012, 03:52:24 AM
 #43

You see Pirate behind everything.  Cast your net wider.

True. Bitcoin is a traders wet dream. Sheep playing the market and no SEC.

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August 05, 2012, 05:05:32 PM
 #44

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.


Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default.  Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not.  When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls.  If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation.  All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week.  I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.

+1

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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August 05, 2012, 05:41:48 PM
 #45

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.


Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default.  Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not.  When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls.  If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation.  All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week.  I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.
At the end of the day, if you put your money in a black box and get ripped off, it's your own damn fault.
It's very difficult to feel sorry for the investors in Enron, Madoff, or by the same token BTCST. If you invest in something you don't understand you might as well burn your money, the net effect will be identical  Wink
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August 05, 2012, 05:59:16 PM
 #46

So pirate has borrowed enough coins to give him the weight to manipulate the market and thus profit enough from his up an down game to pay off his lenders and make profit?

Everyone could just call their coins back.


Why would they when they are essentially in cahoots with the pirate and making good money?

Because when pirate makes a really bad bet (JPMorgan Chase style and he will one day) he will probably default.  Then everyone will lose a portion if not all of their money, and Pirate will be labeled a ponzi scammer even if he is not.  When it gets to serious cash like this then it is hard to come back from big falls.  If he lost a little before he could pay back out of his own funds to make up for a profit later on, but a loss that he can't handle will doom the whole operation.  All of pirate's creditors could do the same thing he is doing except without the manipulation and potentially make more than 7% a week.  I don't borrow or loan money anyway and I will only invest with people or institutions that are transparent, but I would hate for this to hurt the bitcoin economy and tie a lot of people's coins in limbo like with Bitcoinica.
At the end of the day, if you put your money in a black box and get ripped off, it's your own damn fault.
It's very difficult to feel sorry for the investors in Enron, Madoff, or by the same token BTCST. If you invest in something you don't understand you might as well burn your money, the net effect will be identical  Wink

People (the majority )  may be stupid when it comes to financial investments but i dont think that automaticaly means they deserve to be  led into ponzi's and other types of scam
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August 05, 2012, 06:01:04 PM
 #47


At the end of the day, if you put your money in a black box and get ripped off, it's your own damn fault.
It's very difficult to feel sorry for the investors in Enron, Madoff, or by the same token BTCST. If you invest in something you don't understand you might as well burn your money, the net effect will be identical  Wink

True, but I do think we reserve jerk status for the Enrons and Madoffs of the world (I will hold off pre-emptively judging the pirate).

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August 06, 2012, 11:19:08 PM
 #48

I have to somewhat agree with the OP. With pirate's BTCST in place if you bought 10k bitcoins at $5 and you invested 100% of that with pirate you would have 20k bitcoins by now.

I believe much of the ramp could (not necessarily is) but could be a biproduct of people wanting to buy btc low and as the USD price rises not only do they get more bitcoins but each bitcoin is worth more USD.

Unsustainable in my opinion.

Just my take...

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August 07, 2012, 01:55:52 AM
 #49

We will have many chuckles when the music stops and only one chair left.

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August 07, 2012, 02:03:46 AM
 #50

We will have many chuckles when the music stops and only one chair left.

+1 I can't see how this whole pyramid scheme can unwind itself in such a way that NO ONE gets burned.


I've got my popcorn ready. I think we will see much much drama concerning pirate etc. in the next 6 to 12 months if not sooner.

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August 07, 2012, 10:38:50 AM
 #51

I have to somewhat agree with the OP. With pirate's BTCST in place if you bought 10k bitcoins at $5 and you invested 100% of that with pirate you would have 20k bitcoins by now.

I believe much of the ramp could (not necessarily is) but could be a biproduct of people wanting to buy btc low and as the USD price rises not only do they get more bitcoins but each bitcoin is worth more USD.

Unsustainable in my opinion.

Just my take...

someone on another thread calculated that they would need $10,000 a month to retire comfortabley on

they then calculated that by giving pirate 379 BTC the compounding interest in a very short time would equal retirement

if thats not crazy enough for you ,heres another one :

if pirate continues to pay this interest for about 18 months he will have paid out moe than all the bitcoins in the world INCLUDING the ones that havent been mined yet and wont be mined for years 
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August 07, 2012, 11:20:14 AM
 #52

I have to somewhat agree with the OP. With pirate's BTCST in place if you bought 10k bitcoins at $5 and you invested 100% of that with pirate you would have 20k bitcoins by now.

I believe much of the ramp could (not necessarily is) but could be a biproduct of people wanting to buy btc low and as the USD price rises not only do they get more bitcoins but each bitcoin is worth more USD.

Unsustainable in my opinion.

Just my take...

someone on another thread calculated that they would need $10,000 a month to retire comfortabley on

they then calculated that by giving pirate 379 BTC the compounding interest in a very short time would equal retirement

if thats not crazy enough for you ,heres another one :

if pirate continues to pay this interest for about 18 months he will have paid out moe than all the bitcoins in the world INCLUDING the ones that havent been mined yet and wont be mined for years 


So in theory he can run this ponzi for ~1 more year then pack his bags and disappear ? 
Sigh, I hate slow burn drama's.

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August 07, 2012, 11:23:20 AM
 #53

investigators suspect madoff was fraudulant from the 1960s and he never missed an interest payment
for 39 years
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August 07, 2012, 11:36:22 AM
 #54

Pirate = CIA and they are using btc to fund their black ops and pay their spies so they dont have to explain to the public where the money is going.  Smiley

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August 07, 2012, 11:37:58 AM
 #55

investigators suspect madoff was fraudulant from the 1960s and he never missed an interest payment
for 39 years

It's virtually impossible not to see all the threads pointing out how likely this is to be a scam, yet Usagi decided to stop selling NYAN.C, which is at the moment essentially a fund of passtroughs, because it was selling too well -and he was afraid too many would blame him for losing their money, I guess. It was one of the most surreal post I have ever read, a share issuer mad at how well his shares were selling

Sold out already, anymore on the way?

I'm thinking about it. It's just that people are gravitating towards pirate and high risk and they are going to lose a lot of money like this.

Please, for your own sake, I've stopped sale of NYAN.C as it was selling over 5x faster than A or B. Sure, pirate is popular, but people for your own sake stop buying so much pirate. You're going to lose your money.
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August 07, 2012, 11:49:52 AM
 #56


So in theory he can run this ponzi for ~1 more year then pack his bags and disappear ? 
Sigh, I hate slow burn drama's.
Not necessarily.
At the moment every week the vast majority of his interest payments get immediately reinvested - in addition to people providing extra new investment.

In addition, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding things like the size of the exposure people have to BS&T, I tried to start a discussion on it last week (so all the numbers are presumably even higher now):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98225.0;topicseen
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August 07, 2012, 03:07:24 PM
 #57

It's virtually impossible not to see all the threads pointing out how likely this is to be a scam, yet Usagi decided to stop selling NYAN.C, which is at the moment essentially a fund of passtroughs, because it was selling too well -and he was afraid too many would blame him for losing their money, I guess. It was one of the most surreal post I have ever read, a share issuer mad at how well his shares were selling
usagi found out what all of the PPT issuers have known for months, but have neglected to tell anybody: Pirate's deposits are growing more than 7% per week.

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August 07, 2012, 03:43:44 PM
 #58

...Everyone is buying BTC to get in on pirate's scheme, pirate passthroughs, and other pirate like "lending" schemes. ...
I have never used these services, I don't even understand them and yet I have been buying recently.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Free bitcoin in ICELAND - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1610684
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August 07, 2012, 07:49:33 PM
 #59

i think if pirate returned everyones coins

Where would these coins come from? After interest payouts that already happened?

If he is short he would have to buy from the rest of us. Who knows I might even sell him just a few  Wink. The latter of course depends on the price. Of course there may be also those that are buying in order to profit from a Pirate short squeeze, so in that sense the rally could also be due to Pirate.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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August 07, 2012, 11:08:56 PM
 #60

i think if pirate returned everyones coins

Where would these coins come from? After interest payouts that already happened?

If he is short he would have to buy from the rest of us. Who knows I might even sell him just a few  Wink. The latter of course depends on the price. Of course there may be also those that are buying in order to profit from a Pirate short squeeze, so in that sense the rally could also be due to Pirate.
Why would he buy fresh coins to pay depositors back?
If he was going to default he'd just up and leave.
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