newbie jail

[Wary]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".


EDIT: By the results of the discussion I've changed my opinion:

-The best option is being able to use somebody else's black/white lists.
-The second best option is being able to set ignores by status (by clicking tick-boxes in your profile).
-The third best option is the newbie jail (that is comment from newbies go to separate thread).

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[NewbieJailIsWrong]

Your proposal = help bitcoin become even more of a cult than what it already is.

It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?

[Ibian]

Emphatic yes before even reading the op. Do it do it do it!

[ajareselde]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I often think the same thing, but sometimes i get smacked in the face with statements from certain newbie members that are obviously very intelligent ones,
so it seams rather harsh to judge every newbie the same way, maybe thats why the jail is removed in the first place ?

Your proposal = help bitcoin become even more of a cult than what it already is.

It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?

U seriously opened new account just to do this ? I'm not even mad, that's amazing :]

cheers

[BCwinning]

absolutely. There is and was nothing wrong with making 10 posts before posting a thread.
I went through it and I was surprised to see it was removed.
Plus it will cut down on the viagra spam littering the forums lately.

[hyphymikey]

I like the filter option, but I am sure that wouldn't be implemented until the new forum comes out. I doubt Theymos would open newbie jail again in the current forum either.

[Wandererfromthenorth]

It's understandable why the newbie jail was removed.

It's a ridiculous barrier to new users that want to discuss about bitcoin for whatever reason and post in all sections right away.
With the bitcoin price crashing all last year I guess there is a lot less interest in bitcoin currently from new people. Putting another barrier like newbie jails or whatever means that the forum becomes even more deserted.

[Ibian]

I often think the same thing, but sometimes i get smacked in the face with statements from certain newbie members that are obviously very intelligent ones,
so it seams rather harsh to judge every newbie the same way, maybe thats why the jail is removed in the first place ?

Anecdotes are useless. A statistical sample of one is not a statistic. This is about averages and signal to noise.

[Ibian]

It's understandable why the newbie jail was removed.

It's a ridiculous barrier to new users that want to discuss about bitcoin for whatever reason and post in all sections right away.
With the bitcoin price crashing all last year I guess there is a lot less interest in bitcoin currently from new people. Putting another barrier like newbie jails or whatever means that the forum becomes even more deserted.

Anyone who is serious about bitcoin will be able to tolerate it. We don't need or want people with such a short attention span and inability to understand the point of it.

[erwin45hacked]

It's understandable why the newbie jail was removed.

It's a ridiculous barrier to new users that want to discuss about bitcoin for whatever reason and post in all sections right away.
With the bitcoin price crashing all last year I guess there is a lot less interest in bitcoin currently from new people. Putting another barrier like newbie jails or whatever means that the forum becomes even more deserted.

Anyone who is serious about bitcoin will be able to tolerate it. We don't need or want people with such a short attention span and inability to understand the point of it.

with all due respect, we all started from the inability to understand the point of bitcoin. we all started from no knowledge about bitcoin until today, so a barrier like newbie jail is a big no to this forum where people come to learn more about it

[SaltySpitoon]

To quote myself:

Ehh, I was a moderator luckily only for a few months with the whitelist system, and it was not fun. I remember going through newbie jail, I dont think it had a post requirement at the time, I just left Bitcointalk open for 4 hours and just went and did something else. I also delayed signing up for a few months, using a friends account because I didn't feel like going through newbie jail. People don't seem to realize that getting rid of newbie jail doesn't really change much, it just delays spammers/bots by 4 hours, so essentially after 4 hours of changing the newbie jail system, things would go back to normal. Anyway, report bots/spammers/account farmers if you see them. There are a few staff members who are really good at purging large numbers of spammers at once. Report one, and 20 will go away quickly.

Point being, newbie jail is a strain on the staff, and it doesn't do anything positive. The only people it interupts are the individuals with 1-2 accounts that are here to actually learn/discuss. A 4 hour waiting period doesn't discourage spammers, because they just make 20 accounts and wait for the accounts to get out of newbie jail in shifts.

[redsn0w]

I voted yes for the simple reason that I have seen a lot of spammers bot. Everyday at least 20-30 spammers will sign up here and make a spam post in every off topic of each local board. I think the newbie jail will make this thing a little bit difficult but obviously will not resolve at 100% the problem.

[Ibian]

It's understandable why the newbie jail was removed.

It's a ridiculous barrier to new users that want to discuss about bitcoin for whatever reason and post in all sections right away.
With the bitcoin price crashing all last year I guess there is a lot less interest in bitcoin currently from new people. Putting another barrier like newbie jails or whatever means that the forum becomes even more deserted.

Anyone who is serious about bitcoin will be able to tolerate it. We don't need or want people with such a short attention span and inability to understand the point of it.

with all due respect, we all started from the inability to understand the point of bitcoin. we all started from no knowledge about bitcoin until today, so a barrier like newbie jail is a big no to this forum where people come to learn more about it

The first step is to read and ask questions. That's what the newbie forum is for. Or used to be for at some point, anyway.

[Ibian]

To quote myself:

Ehh, I was a moderator luckily only for a few months with the whitelist system, and it was not fun. I remember going through newbie jail, I dont think it had a post requirement at the time, I just left Bitcointalk open for 4 hours and just went and did something else. I also delayed signing up for a few months, using a friends account because I didn't feel like going through newbie jail. People don't seem to realize that getting rid of newbie jail doesn't really change much, it just delays spammers/bots by 4 hours, so essentially after 4 hours of changing the newbie jail system, things would go back to normal. Anyway, report bots/spammers/account farmers if you see them. There are a few staff members who are really good at purging large numbers of spammers at once. Report one, and 20 will go away quickly.

Point being, newbie jail is a strain on the staff, and it doesn't do anything positive. The only people it interupts are the individuals with 1-2 accounts that are here to actually learn/discuss. A 4 hour waiting period doesn't discourage spammers, because they just make 20 accounts and wait for the accounts to get out of newbie jail in shifts.

So take that into account when setting up the rules. People want this. It's 14 to 2 at this point (the no activity troll doesn't count).

[SaltySpitoon]

So take that into account when setting up the rules. People want this. It's 14 to 2 at this point (the no activity troll doesn't count).

The removal of newbie jail was something that had been planned for a long time before it happened. There are a multitude of reasons that it wont be coming back. There is no way around it, newbie jail is a deturrent for people who aren't its intended purpose. Spammers/botters etc don't care about newbie jail in the slightest. Its taxing on the staff, it promotes spam rather than preventing it, and it inhibits legitimate membership. If you just read an article about Bitcoin, are now interested in learning more, and come here for some info; if the forum's restrictions turn you away thats one less person to enter the Bitcoin community, to be active in real conversation, and to be a member of what it is thats built here.

All of that said, there seems to be a common misconception that newbie jail does something positive. I have yet to find a single positive thing that newbie jail does for us, they are all negatives, why reinstate it?

[funtotry]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

No no, not status-based filtering, well anyways I wouldn't use it. I don't ignore anyone, doesn't heart to listen to everyone, even if they are shills, because you know what other people are talking about them.

[criptix]

Your proposal = help bitcoin become even more of a cult than what it already is.

It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?

yes please lock them all 

[Omikifuse]

Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

Do you know that account trade is allowed and any newbie can buy a senior+ account, right?

[tspacepilot]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I often think the same thing, but sometimes i get smacked in the face with statements from certain newbie members that are obviously very intelligent ones,
so it seams rather harsh to judge every newbie the same way, maybe thats why the jail is removed in the first place ?

Indeed while I also sometimes am annoyed by the newbie posts that are stoopid.  I find quite often that some dev who makes some exciting new software often launches a site and then creates a newbie account here to discuss how people are using it.  My point is that many folks hanging around on the sidelines should be able to create an account and speak up whenever they please.

[Muhammed Zakir]

No, please. I think this will scare away Newbies not to come. Many people come to ask their doubts, questions, to announce their service etc... This isn't a good idea and even because of the time limit, people still complain. Newbie jail isn't good as time limit. So the current time limit is enough, IMHO.

I agree with SaltySpitoon!

   -MZ

[nachoig]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts? This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone.

Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.

Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.

[BeetcoinScummer]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts? This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone.

Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.

Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.

Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.

[Monetizer]

I don't think this is fair to be honest as it scares away new people and discourages people from joining if no one will see what they ask or post. I can see why you would want it but for me when I was in noob jail I almost just left the forum. It seemed like a lot of work to just get into a forum.

[olcaytu2005]

I don't think this is fair to be honest as it scares away new people and discourages people from joining if no one will see what they ask or post. I can see why you would want it but for me when I was in noob jail I almost just left the forum. It seemed like a lot of work to just get into a forum.

i agree with you. We are here to help someone who doesnt know bitcoin and wants to learn. we are here to spread bitcoin brotherhood to all of the world. but newbie jail doesnt help it. Newbie's questions can look silly for the old members. But we should be patient and tolerant. Coz they know nothing. Newbies are not a spam. They are just fresh and dont know anything.

[cbeast]

The damage is done. The newbie troll armies have all but destroyed any meaningful discussions by flooding the forum with repetitive and worn out topics. In fact, the forum should just close and be archived. At least Reddit doesn't allow duplicate posts. While old posts can sometimes become topical again, necro-posting with valueless comments isn't possible on Reddit. The Libertarians have proven how much damage they can do to the Commons by allowing free unrestricted access.

[Wary]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts? This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone.

Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.

Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.

You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss"? That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore? That you have right to demand apologies for thought-crimes? It's the likes of you who chased their professors for being "anti-social and arrogant" during the Chineze Cultural Revolution. It's a shame you don't realize how totalitarian your mindset is.

[Wary]

Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.

Yes, but in combination with name filtering it would work perfectly. A troll would have to generate hundreds of posts to get to non-filtered status, while you could ignore him in one click. So performance of trolling would decrease hundredfold.

I agree that because newbie jail and newbie filtering some good posts would be lost. To improve it, along with one-click blacklisting we should have one-click white-listing as well. These listings should have priority over status filtering. So when a newbie will write a valuable post, somebody would quote it and we would be able to unignore the newcomer.

Actually, a developed system of white/blacklists would be even better solution than newbie jail of status-based filtering. I believe there will be enough volunteers to create such lists. Moderators would be the first to create them. And then you have just decide, which list to use - Blitz' one, Risto's one or LambChop's one.

EDIT: grammar.

[Ibian]

Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.

Yes, but in combination with name filtering it would work perfectly. A troll would have to generate hundreds of posts to get to non-filtered status, while you could ignore him in one click. So performance of trolling would decrease hundredfold.

I agree that because newbie jail and newbie filtering some good posts would be lost. To improve it, along with one-click blacklisting we should have one-click white-listing as well. These listings should have priority over status filtering. So when a newbie will write a valuable post, somebody would quote it and we would be able to unignore the newcomer.

Actually, developed system of white/blacklists would be even better solution than newbie jail of status-based filtering. I believe there will be enough volunteers to create such lists. Moderators would be the first to create such lists. And then you have just decide, which list to use - Blitz' one, Risto's one or LambChop's one.

Easy choice.

[nachoig]

You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss".

Really? Where did I say this?

That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore.

Yes, they have, there is an ignore button. I use it against trolls/shills sometimes.

That you have right to demand apologies for thought-crimes. It's the likes of you who chaised their professors for being "anti-social and arrogant" during the Cultural Revolution.

The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored. And yes, you should apologize for this because you are saying this forum should become a "circle of commons", which is a shame.

It's a shame you don't realize how totalitarian is your mindset.

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post iand to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

This quote is ideal for you:

«Solamente los débiles eluden la confrontación con hombres que no piensan como ellos. Ninguno de los estadistas de las grandes naciones occidentales rehúsan hablar con los dirigentes de los países comunistas. Nosotros no queríamos ser jamás gobernantes de un pueblo que tiene miedo de confrontar sus ideas con otras ideas».

Translating:

Only the debils elude the confrontation with men who don't think like them. None of the statesmen of the big occidental nations refuse to talk with the chairpersons of communist countries. We never wouldn't want to be rulers of a people who has fear of confronting their ideas with other ideas.

Arturo Frondizi (President of Argentina between 1958-1962)

[Wary]

You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss".

Really? Where did I say this?

Here: "The right to discuss if for everyone". You are claiming that everyone has right to use this forum. Correct? But "right to do X" means that if you want to do X and Y is standing on your way, this Y should be punished. Correct? Specifically, "everybody has right to write on bitcointalk" means that if owner of bitcointalk, i.e. Theymos would ban somebody from his forum, he should be punished by authorities. Probably, you just never thought that positive rights (i.e. rights that somebody have to pay for) are not compatible with private property rights, but are compatible with socialism & communism. That's why I've suggested that you don't realize how totalitarian are your views.
 

That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore.

Yes, they have, there is an ignore button. I use it against trolls/shills sometimes.

So you are ignoring some people! Isn't it arrogant? What name would Arturo Frondizi call you for doing it? Status-filtering option I was suggesting is an ignore button too, it just doing many ignores at once.

The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored.

More exactly, put to a separate 'newbie' thread. BTW, I din't claim that you've committed a crime. "Thought-crime" is a term from Orwell's "1984" - description of a fictional totalitarian society, where "wrong" thoughts are capital crimes, just like you consider elitism (real or imaginary) being an almost crime.  

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post and to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

That's right. You are.

Because you don't accept right of association. You may not heard of it, but it's a major human right. This right means: dealing with other people is voluntary, from both sides. That is that people should have right to choose whom to deal with and whom not to. You should not have right to force yourself on others, just like they should not have right to force themselves on you. Friendship, marriage, job, trade, conversation - all this should be strictly voluntary. If you don't like me, you should not be forced to talk with me, or marry me , or hire me. I should not have right to go to your home or your forum against your will. It's your major right. You don't need to make an excuses and explanations for it. "I don't want to deal with him" must be enough. I may not like it, I may call you snoobish and le debile, but if I'll try to force mycelf in, I should be punished by authorities.

If you don't agree with it, then yes, you have a totalitarian mindset.

[Possum577]

Clearly we need some option to keep people happy. I'm def for an option to select which rank posts you want to see. It'll keep the reading a bit filled with holes but I'm sure the senior ranked folks can read between the blocked posts, no?

[doggieTattoo]

Your proposal = help bitcoin become even more of a cult than what it already is.

It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?

Exactly, we may get some shit posting, but if people aren;t afraid or annoyed they cna come back and become a more active member of the community.  But if they are jailed, well, they Just won't like it. 

[nachoig]

Here: "The right to discuss if for everyone". You are claiming that everyone has right to use this forum. Correct? But "right to do X" means that if you want to do X and Y is standing on your way, this Y should be punished. Correct? Specifically, "everybody has right to write on bitcointalk" means that if owner of bitcointalk, i.e. Theymos would ban somebody from his forum, he should be punished by authorities. Probably, you just never thought that positive rights (i.e. rights that somebody have to pay for) are not compatible with private property rights, but are compatible with socialism & communism. That's why I've suggested that you don't realize how totalitarian are your views.

Congratulations for the worst misinterpretation that I've ever seen on a forum. I'm feeling very stupid now, because I couldn't realize how talking about the openness nature of a forum would let someone to a conclusion about totalitarianism.

I talked about rights, not unlimited rights. Also with rights you have some obligations, every forum on the internet has its own rules.

So you are ignoring some people! Isn't it arrogant? What name would Arturo Frondizi call you for doing it? Status-filtering option I was suggesting is an ignore button too, it just doing many ignores at once.

You need to troll very hard to I do this. Like someone who created a topic claiming Satoshi was moving his coins and providing a Coindesk's fake link.

Currently I have just 5 ignored accounts, and they are:

2 Hero Members
1 Senior
1 Full
1 Junior

So, the problem definitely isn't newbies.

The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored.

More exactly, put to a separate 'newbie' thread. BTW, I din't claim that you've committed a crime. "Thought-crime" is a term from Orwell's "1984" - description of a fictional totalitarian society, where "wrong" thoughts are capital crimes, just like you consider elitism (real or imaginary) being an almost crime.  

You are defending some type of practice, a hostile practice, by the way.

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post and to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

That's right. You are.

Because you don't accept right of association. You may not heard of it, but it's a major human right. This right means: dealing with other people is voluntary, from both sides. That is that people should have right to choose whom to deal with and whom not to. You should not have right to force yourself on others, just like they should not have right to force themselves on you. Friendship, marriage, job, trade, conversation - all this should be strictly voluntary. If you don't like me, you should not be forced to talk with me, or marry me , or hire me. I should not have right to go to your home or your forum against your will. It's your major right. You don't need to make an excuses and explanations for it. "I don't want to deal with him" must be enough. I may not like it, I may call you snoobish and le debile, but if I'll try to force mycelf in, I should be punished by authorities.

If you don't agree with it, then yes, you have a totalitarian mindset.

Going to a forum is voluntary too. What is clear to me is if you don't want a forum with newbies, you don't want a forum at all. You would stay better at a private mail list or something like that. Also, you are fogetting everybody here was a newbie one day. So, this type of hostility isn't good, specially if you are interested in promoting Bitcoin.

[Berau]

I don't think newbies should be ignored. Just because a person is a hero right now, doesn't mean that they haven't gone through the newbie stage.

If you were the person that was being ignored, you should know how that feels.

And, some newbies provide the forum entertainment by posting blatant scam anyways

[oda.krell]

Don't call it 'newbie jail' if you prefer, but re-introducing some probation period for new accounts is highly desirable in my opinion.

On some days, the entire speculation forum is flooded by useless drivel of new accounts, and moderation isn't the solution (since mods remove spam, but not troll posts).

I've asked for reintroducing the probation period before, and it was clear to me that there is no interest from theymos' side to change the status quo, so I'm skeptical it'll be different this time, but, that said:

I support bringing back posting restriction for newly registered accounts. 'Restriction' being in the form of a short period during which they are only allowed to post in the newcomer forum, and with the possible exception of leaving "jail" earlier if they write a few particularly good posts (good questions, good answers to other newbies' questions, etc.)

To be clear: the goal is not to make newbies' lives harder, but to make it slightly more costly time-wise for high powered trolls and spammers to open new accounts on a regular basis, which they need to do because their old ones are getting ignored after N posts on average.

[hilariousandco]

Don't call it 'newbie jail' if you prefer, but re-introducing some probation period for new accounts is highly desirable in my opinion.

I don't believe it ever was called that but what we name it doesn't matter.

To be clear: the goal is not to make newbies' lives harder, but to make it slightly more costly time-wise for high powered trolls and spammers to open new accounts on a regular basis, which they need to do because their old ones are getting ignored after N posts on average.

'High powdered trolls' wont care about waiting out some minor restrictions and will just do what they can to bypass them but you do put off other genuine users in the meantime who just want to contribute to the forum. The six minute wait for newbs is already pretty annoying but trolls wont mind it.

On some days, the entire speculation forum is flooded by useless drivel of new accounts, and moderation isn't the solution (since mods remove spam, but not troll posts).

The speculation forum has always been full of watery shite from newbs bickering about the price and there's only so many ways you can speculate about what's going to happen to it so I wouldn't ever expect there to be much quality discussion in there.

[oda.krell]

Don't call it 'newbie jail' if you prefer, but re-introducing some probation period for new accounts is highly desirable in my opinion.

I don't believe it ever was called that but what we name it doesn't matter.

Precisely what I said.

To be clear: the goal is not to make newbies' lives harder, but to make it slightly more costly time-wise for high powered trolls and spammers to open new accounts on a regular basis, which they need to do because their old ones are getting ignored after N posts on average.

'High powdered trolls' wont care about waiting out some minor restrictions and will just do what they can to bypass them but you do put off other genuine users in the meantime who just want to contribute to the forum. The six minute wait for newbs is already pretty annoying but trolls wont mind it.

I doubt that.

Like I said, they need to re-open accounts all the time because the old ones get ignored, so it means at the very least they now have one additional task (keep "grooming" a new batch of accounts for later posting).

On some days, the entire speculation forum is flooded by useless drivel of new accounts, and moderation isn't the solution (since mods remove spam, but not troll posts).

The speculation forum has always been full of watery shite from newbs bickering about the price and there's only so many ways you can speculate about what's going to happen to it so I wouldn't ever expect there to be much quality discussion in there.

Now we're talking. So the forum I mentioned is just a bunch of idiots posting anyway, and little of value is lost if it's drowned by trolls.

Talk about "watery shite" arguments, huh?

[tspacepilot]

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post iand to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

This quote is ideal for you:

«Solamente los débiles eluden la confrontación con hombres que no piensan como ellos. Ninguno de los estadistas de las grandes naciones occidentales rehúsan hablar con los dirigentes de los países comunistas. Nosotros no queríamos ser jamás gobernantes de un pueblo que tiene miedo de confrontar sus ideas con otras ideas».

Translating:

Only the debils elude the confrontation with men who don't think like them. None of the statesmen of the big occidental nations refuse to talk with the chairpersons of communist countries. We never wouldn't want to be rulers of a people who has fear of confronting their ideas with other ideas.

Arturo Frondizi (President of Argentina between 1958-1962)

Just want to help out with that translation: "debils" --> "the weak"; "the big occidental" --> "the large Western nations"; "We never wouldn't want" --> "We would never want"

Cheers!

[chronicsky]

Don't even know what this Newbie Jail is but as i see it , it might have been a feature in past , stopping newbie's from commenting or something. But whatever it may be , i don't think it shall be done.Since alot of newbie's here are legit and some who doesn't leave their local area are active regular and are still newbie or so , just because they just lurk the forums.

[kuusj98]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

Uhm, ignoring ALL newbies and members and full members is a bit extreme don't you think? There are a lot of people in these ranks who don't post shit and shit only.
I vote for a reopen of the newbiejail though, too damn many people selling 128 GB iPhone's 6+ for 100$ on fresh accounts

[jbrnt]

Newbie jail is one out of many solutions to solve the underlying problem: too many newbie spam and fud

If newbie jail is not coming back, we could at least make it harder for spammers to register new alts one after another. This forum is not short of money. Use the bitcoin to register a phone verification service. New members has to enter the code sent to their phone to activate their new bitcointalk account.

The phone number is hashed and stored in the database, so the same number cannot be registered twice.

[Wary]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

Uhm, ignoring ALL newbies and members and full members is a bit extreme don't you think? There are a lot of people in these ranks who don't post shit and shit only.
I vote for a reopen of the newbiejail though, too damn many people selling 128 GB iPhone's 6+ for 100$ on fresh accounts

Probably I haven't put it clearly. What I mean is an option in profile: "ignore users with status ..." and a tickbox for each status. So everyone would be able to choose, say, "read legendary only". Or "read newbies only". Or "read everybody but heroes". Or whatever combination you want to choose.

But the best solution, IMO, would be being able to subscribe to somebody's black/white list (with your own personal ignores/unigrores on top of it).
There would always be enough of volunteers to maintain such lists, so we would have just to choose which one to use.

That would be the Holy Grail of free speech: everybody can talk, but nobody have to listen

EDIT: I put it to OP.

[nachoig]

Just want to help out with that translation: "debils" --> "the weak"; "the big occidental" --> "the large Western nations"; "We never wouldn't want" --> "We would never want"

Cheers!

Thanks.

Typical habits from Spanish and Portuguese, which are my native languages.

[SaltySpitoon]

Why not just ignore individuals? Automatically ignoring thousands of people would probably do more harm that good. The point of ignoring someone is to not see garbage posts, there is no way an entire usergroup can be clumped together for post quality. The ignore feature is for people you dislike, and those that you feel provide nothing to conversations so you would rather not read their responses anyway. I can see a lot of issues arising from mass ignoring people. There are threads where people discuss their ignored list if you feel you have missed people you meant to ignore, but I cant see turning the ignore system into a popularity contest going well.

Newbie jail is one out of many solutions to solve the underlying problem: too many newbie spam and fud

If newbie jail is not coming back, we could at least make it harder for spammers to register new alts one after another. This forum is not short of money. Use the bitcoin to register a phone verification service. New members has to enter the code sent to their phone to activate their new bitcointalk account.

The phone number is hashed and stored in the database, so the same number cannot be registered twice.

And there goes people's rights to pseudonymity. Also, you would then only be allowing people who own phones to register for the forums.

[Ibian]

Still overwhelmingly Yes. Something needs to be done, whatever that something turns out to be.

[Wary]

Why not just ignore individuals? Automatically ignoring thousands of people would probably do more harm that good. The point of ignoring someone is to not see garbage posts, there is no way an entire usergroup can be clumped together for post quality. The ignore feature is for people you dislike, [snip]

The Wall Observer thread is currently 11761 pages. It's over quarter of million posts. That's just one thread. The whole forum is over 10 millions of posts. Have you read all of them? I'm afraid not. You haven't read most of us. Does it mean you dislike most of us?

I think not. It's not about disliking people, it's just that life is short and we can't do everything. We have to choose what to read and what not to. We all have to filter out and we all do it.

So how do we filter out? We frequent some favorite topics and threads and rarely if ever visit the rest. Which mean we all commit group filtering and I can see nothing wrong in it.
But even in our favorite topics we probably skim or skip most of stuff. Again, I cannot see anything wrong with it, the only problem with such filtering is that it is not effective. We may miss some valuable posts, but in the same time we read a lot of posts we don't really need or want to.

I don't know which solution Theymos would choose, but any one would be an improvement over the current state.


tl; dr;
- All of us are gilty in the ignoring sin.
- All of us are gilty in the group ignoring sin.
- All we need is a feature to do this group ignoring more effectively.
- Theymos, please do something!  

[funtotry]

Ignoring people doesn't really do anything lol, the place where the post is is still there, just made a tiny bit smaller. Also you might miss out on some people's opinions and then be confused on why everyone is talking about something you ignored. Grouping multiple people together also isn't the best idea, satoshi was a newbie one day

[olcaytu2005]

Signature campaigns shouldnt accept newbies. In this way newbies dont require to post everywhere.

[SaltySpitoon]

The Wall Observer thread is currently 11761 pages. It's over quarter of million posts. That's just one thread. The whole forum is over 10 millions of posts. Have you read all of them? I'm afraid not. You haven't read most of us. Does it mean you dislike most of us?

I think not. It's not about disliking people, it's just that life is short and we can't do everything. We have to choose what to read and what not to. We all have to filter out and we all do it.

So how do we filter out? We frequent some favorite topics and threads and rarely if ever visit the rest. Which mean we all commit group filtering and I can see nothing wrong in it.
But even in our favorite topics we probably skim or skip most of stuff. Again, I cannot see anything wrong with it, the only problem with such filtering is that it is not effective. We may miss some valuable posts, but in the same time we read a lot of posts we don't really need or want to.

I don't know which solution Theymos would choose, but any one would be an improvement over the current state.


tl; dr;
- All of us are gilty in the ignoring sin.
- All of us are gilty in the group ignoring sin.
- All we need is a feature to do this group ignoring more effectively.
- Theymos, please do something!  

Thats a very strange point of view, not being able to read a topic due to the fact that we can't do everything is not the same as actively ignoring people in a way that is destructive to conversation. If I dont have time to read a thread, then its a given that I dont have time to post there, which means I have 0 impact on the thread what so ever. Ignoring others with valid inputs while still posting in a thread is destructive to the environment created.

The point of a forum is to stimulate conversation about a topic (Bitcoin in our case) if everyone is ignored, why bother even coming here? One huge issue I see, is what if you decide to ignore every newbie. How do you contribute to conversation that those newbies are part of? What if they are discussing something, and you end up just repeating what one of them says? You are then inadvertently spamming. The point is that you are supposed to think critically about a topic, people's opinions, and your own opinions to share your point of view or to add information so that others may expand their points of view as well. If there is a person who is taking away from that, you ignore them and you carry on or report them if they are breaking a rule. If you want to have a conversation with yourself you don't need Bitcointalk for that, there are far better environments for a relaxing chat with yourself.

Another thought, what makes a newbie's post less valid than a legendary members? I have over 90 days logged on to this forum, but I dont think my ability to discuss nor my opinions have changed much in that time. Will the newbies you have ignored automatically be worth unignoring after they post 28 posts over two weeks? And is it not our responsibility as active members of the Bitcoin community to try and help educate new members so that Bitcoin can be more than just an obscure internet currency for geeks and drug dealers? What if we had ignored the beginning questions of the newbies that now own multi million dollar businesses that represent the Bitcoin community on the news and to people who don't know Bitcoin? If you personally choose to not take part, thats fine, but why should the forum accomodate something that in mass would be harmful?

I see much less issue with newbies spamming, than people with signature advertisements spamming.

[Ibian]

The Wall Observer thread is currently 11761 pages. It's over quarter of million posts. That's just one thread. The whole forum is over 10 millions of posts. Have you read all of them? I'm afraid not. You haven't read most of us. Does it mean you dislike most of us?

I think not. It's not about disliking people, it's just that life is short and we can't do everything. We have to choose what to read and what not to. We all have to filter out and we all do it.

So how do we filter out? We frequent some favorite topics and threads and rarely if ever visit the rest. Which mean we all commit group filtering and I can see nothing wrong in it.
But even in our favorite topics we probably skim or skip most of stuff. Again, I cannot see anything wrong with it, the only problem with such filtering is that it is not effective. We may miss some valuable posts, but in the same time we read a lot of posts we don't really need or want to.

I don't know which solution Theymos would choose, but any one would be an improvement over the current state.


tl; dr;
- All of us are gilty in the ignoring sin.
- All of us are gilty in the group ignoring sin.
- All we need is a feature to do this group ignoring more effectively.
- Theymos, please do something!  

Thats a very strange point of view, not being able to read a topic due to the fact that we can't do everything is not the same as actively ignoring people in a way that is destructive to conversation. If I dont have time to read a thread, then its a given that I dont have time to post there, which means I have 0 impact on the thread what so ever. Ignoring others with valid inputs while still posting in a thread is destructive to the environment created.

The point of a forum is to stimulate conversation about a topic (Bitcoin in our case) if everyone is ignored, why bother even coming here? One huge issue I see, is what if you decide to ignore every newbie. How do you contribute to conversation that those newbies are part of? What if they are discussing something, and you end up just repeating what one of them says? You are then inadvertently spamming. The point is that you are supposed to think critically about a topic, people's opinions, and your own opinions to share your point of view or to add information so that others may expand their points of view as well. If there is a person who is taking away from that, you ignore them and you carry on or report them if they are breaking a rule. If you want to have a conversation with yourself you don't need Bitcointalk for that, there are far better environments for a relaxing chat with yourself.

Another thought, what makes a newbie's post less valid than a legendary members? I have over 90 days logged on to this forum, but I dont think my ability to discuss nor my opinions have changed much in that time. Will the newbies you have ignored automatically be worth unignoring after they post 28 posts over two weeks? And is it not our responsibility as active members of the Bitcoin community to try and help educate new members so that Bitcoin can be more than just an obscure internet currency for geeks and drug dealers? What if we had ignored the beginning questions of the newbies that now own multi million dollar businesses that represent the Bitcoin community on the news and to people who don't know Bitcoin? If you personally choose to not take part, thats fine, but why should the forum accomodate something that in mass would be harmful?

I see much less issue with newbies spamming, than people with signature advertisements spamming.

You are thinking from a "everyone want what is best for the community" perspective. The countless trolls do not. They are a real problem and need to be dealt with.

[oda.krell]

Ibian said it best a few posts above: Even if the exact method is up for debate, the survey result of this thread speaks for itself.

Ignoring en masse, newbie jail, etc... those are all blunt tools, sure, far from ideal for dealing with the problem at hand.

But as the survey shows, there is a wide-spread perception among members that there is a problem^*, and that the forum administration should try harder to find ways how to solve it (ideally, with the help of the community).


^* The problem, in one brief phrase, being 'low signal-to-noise ratio'.

[Muhammed Zakir]

@odo.krell: Have you tasted newbie jail?

This would only scare away people who really want to discuss. 'Ignore' button is better.

   -MZ

[Ibian]

@odo.krell: Have you tasted newbie jail?

This would only scare away people who really want to discuss. 'Ignore' button is better.

   -MZ

I found the newbie section quite helpful when I first started. Spent a little while after release answering peoples questions too. It doesn't have to be a bad thing, that's just the perception some people have. Partly because of how we refer to it.

[oda.krell]

@odo.krell: Have you tasted newbie jail?

This would only scare away people who really want to discuss. 'Ignore' button is better.

   -MZ

Course I did. Complained a bit (about how easy it is to game the system) but didn't really mind it.

Then proceeded to ask a few questions about Bitcoin basics and got an extremely detailed answer by amazing users DeathAndTaxes and DannyHamilton, which, unfortunately went straight over my head but I was too proud to admit that at the time

Seriously, I get your objection, I can see how posting restrictions for newbies are a bit off-putting for some, but I also don't think it's unreasonably "elitist" to demand of newcomers to educate themselves for one or two days before they're let loose on the public.

The Newcomer forum, where you're expected to ask a few questions to learn the ropes, doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me.