newbie jail

[nachoig]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts? This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone.

Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.

Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.

[BeetcoinScummer]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts? This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone.

Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.

Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.

Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.

[Monetizer]

I don't think this is fair to be honest as it scares away new people and discourages people from joining if no one will see what they ask or post. I can see why you would want it but for me when I was in noob jail I almost just left the forum. It seemed like a lot of work to just get into a forum.

[olcaytu2005]

I don't think this is fair to be honest as it scares away new people and discourages people from joining if no one will see what they ask or post. I can see why you would want it but for me when I was in noob jail I almost just left the forum. It seemed like a lot of work to just get into a forum.

i agree with you. We are here to help someone who doesnt know bitcoin and wants to learn. we are here to spread bitcoin brotherhood to all of the world. but newbie jail doesnt help it. Newbie's questions can look silly for the old members. But we should be patient and tolerant. Coz they know nothing. Newbies are not a spam. They are just fresh and dont know anything.

[cbeast]

The damage is done. The newbie troll armies have all but destroyed any meaningful discussions by flooding the forum with repetitive and worn out topics. In fact, the forum should just close and be archived. At least Reddit doesn't allow duplicate posts. While old posts can sometimes become topical again, necro-posting with valueless comments isn't possible on Reddit. The Libertarians have proven how much damage they can do to the Commons by allowing free unrestricted access.

[Wary]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

I think you should apologize for writing this. Show only legendary, heroes and seniors posts? This is really anti-social and arrogant. The right to discuss if for everyone.

Fortunately I didn't get this infamous "newbie jail". Also, I wasn't aware of this until the last week because of some random topic.

Also, it's interesting to notice there are a lot of trolls here with the senior status. So, a newbie jail doesn't fix any problem.

You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss"? That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore? That you have right to demand apologies for thought-crimes? It's the likes of you who chased their professors for being "anti-social and arrogant" during the Chineze Cultural Revolution. It's a shame you don't realize how totalitarian your mindset is.

[Wary]

Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.

Yes, but in combination with name filtering it would work perfectly. A troll would have to generate hundreds of posts to get to non-filtered status, while you could ignore him in one click. So performance of trolling would decrease hundredfold.

I agree that because newbie jail and newbie filtering some good posts would be lost. To improve it, along with one-click blacklisting we should have one-click white-listing as well. These listings should have priority over status filtering. So when a newbie will write a valuable post, somebody would quote it and we would be able to unignore the newcomer.

Actually, a developed system of white/blacklists would be even better solution than newbie jail of status-based filtering. I believe there will be enough volunteers to create such lists. Moderators would be the first to create them. And then you have just decide, which list to use - Blitz' one, Risto's one or LambChop's one.

EDIT: grammar.

[Ibian]

Status based filtering would just be a temporary solution anyway, because it's just a matter of time before sig ad shitposters become Hero members.

Yes, but in combination with name filtering it would work perfectly. A troll would have to generate hundreds of posts to get to non-filtered status, while you could ignore him in one click. So performance of trolling would decrease hundredfold.

I agree that because newbie jail and newbie filtering some good posts would be lost. To improve it, along with one-click blacklisting we should have one-click white-listing as well. These listings should have priority over status filtering. So when a newbie will write a valuable post, somebody would quote it and we would be able to unignore the newcomer.

Actually, developed system of white/blacklists would be even better solution than newbie jail of status-based filtering. I believe there will be enough volunteers to create such lists. Moderators would be the first to create such lists. And then you have just decide, which list to use - Blitz' one, Risto's one or LambChop's one.

Easy choice.

[nachoig]

You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss".

Really? Where did I say this?

That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore.

Yes, they have, there is an ignore button. I use it against trolls/shills sometimes.

That you have right to demand apologies for thought-crimes. It's the likes of you who chaised their professors for being "anti-social and arrogant" during the Cultural Revolution.

The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored. And yes, you should apologize for this because you are saying this forum should become a "circle of commons", which is a shame.

It's a shame you don't realize how totalitarian is your mindset.

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post iand to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

This quote is ideal for you:

«Solamente los débiles eluden la confrontación con hombres que no piensan como ellos. Ninguno de los estadistas de las grandes naciones occidentales rehúsan hablar con los dirigentes de los países comunistas. Nosotros no queríamos ser jamás gobernantes de un pueblo que tiene miedo de confrontar sus ideas con otras ideas».

Translating:

Only the debils elude the confrontation with men who don't think like them. None of the statesmen of the big occidental nations refuse to talk with the chairpersons of communist countries. We never wouldn't want to be rulers of a people who has fear of confronting their ideas with other ideas.

Arturo Frondizi (President of Argentina between 1958-1962)

[Wary]

You believe that Theymos have obligation to pay his money for your "right to discuss".

Really? Where did I say this?

Here: "The right to discuss if for everyone". You are claiming that everyone has right to use this forum. Correct? But "right to do X" means that if you want to do X and Y is standing on your way, this Y should be punished. Correct? Specifically, "everybody has right to write on bitcointalk" means that if owner of bitcointalk, i.e. Theymos would ban somebody from his forum, he should be punished by authorities. Probably, you just never thought that positive rights (i.e. rights that somebody have to pay for) are not compatible with private property rights, but are compatible with socialism & communism. That's why I've suggested that you don't realize how totalitarian are your views.
 

That visitors of this thread have no right to decide which posts they can ignore.

Yes, they have, there is an ignore button. I use it against trolls/shills sometimes.

So you are ignoring some people! Isn't it arrogant? What name would Arturo Frondizi call you for doing it? Status-filtering option I was suggesting is an ignore button too, it just doing many ignores at once.

The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored.

More exactly, put to a separate 'newbie' thread. BTW, I din't claim that you've committed a crime. "Thought-crime" is a term from Orwell's "1984" - description of a fictional totalitarian society, where "wrong" thoughts are capital crimes, just like you consider elitism (real or imaginary) being an almost crime.  

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post and to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

That's right. You are.

Because you don't accept right of association. You may not heard of it, but it's a major human right. This right means: dealing with other people is voluntary, from both sides. That is that people should have right to choose whom to deal with and whom not to. You should not have right to force yourself on others, just like they should not have right to force themselves on you. Friendship, marriage, job, trade, conversation - all this should be strictly voluntary. If you don't like me, you should not be forced to talk with me, or marry me , or hire me. I should not have right to go to your home or your forum against your will. It's your major right. You don't need to make an excuses and explanations for it. "I don't want to deal with him" must be enough. I may not like it, I may call you snoobish and le debile, but if I'll try to force mycelf in, I should be punished by authorities.

If you don't agree with it, then yes, you have a totalitarian mindset.

[Possum577]

Clearly we need some option to keep people happy. I'm def for an option to select which rank posts you want to see. It'll keep the reading a bit filled with holes but I'm sure the senior ranked folks can read between the blocked posts, no?

[doggieTattoo]

Your proposal = help bitcoin become even more of a cult than what it already is.

It's all about freedom amirite? Newbie Jail? really?

Exactly, we may get some shit posting, but if people aren;t afraid or annoyed they cna come back and become a more active member of the community.  But if they are jailed, well, they Just won't like it. 

[nachoig]

Here: "The right to discuss if for everyone". You are claiming that everyone has right to use this forum. Correct? But "right to do X" means that if you want to do X and Y is standing on your way, this Y should be punished. Correct? Specifically, "everybody has right to write on bitcointalk" means that if owner of bitcointalk, i.e. Theymos would ban somebody from his forum, he should be punished by authorities. Probably, you just never thought that positive rights (i.e. rights that somebody have to pay for) are not compatible with private property rights, but are compatible with socialism & communism. That's why I've suggested that you don't realize how totalitarian are your views.

Congratulations for the worst misinterpretation that I've ever seen on a forum. I'm feeling very stupid now, because I couldn't realize how talking about the openness nature of a forum would let someone to a conclusion about totalitarianism.

I talked about rights, not unlimited rights. Also with rights you have some obligations, every forum on the internet has its own rules.

So you are ignoring some people! Isn't it arrogant? What name would Arturo Frondizi call you for doing it? Status-filtering option I was suggesting is an ignore button too, it just doing many ignores at once.

You need to troll very hard to I do this. Like someone who created a topic claiming Satoshi was moving his coins and providing a Coindesk's fake link.

Currently I have just 5 ignored accounts, and they are:

2 Hero Members
1 Senior
1 Full
1 Junior

So, the problem definitely isn't newbies.

The crime comes from you, claiming people just for being newbies, should be ignored.

More exactly, put to a separate 'newbie' thread. BTW, I din't claim that you've committed a crime. "Thought-crime" is a term from Orwell's "1984" - description of a fictional totalitarian society, where "wrong" thoughts are capital crimes, just like you consider elitism (real or imaginary) being an almost crime.  

You are defending some type of practice, a hostile practice, by the way.

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post and to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

That's right. You are.

Because you don't accept right of association. You may not heard of it, but it's a major human right. This right means: dealing with other people is voluntary, from both sides. That is that people should have right to choose whom to deal with and whom not to. You should not have right to force yourself on others, just like they should not have right to force themselves on you. Friendship, marriage, job, trade, conversation - all this should be strictly voluntary. If you don't like me, you should not be forced to talk with me, or marry me , or hire me. I should not have right to go to your home or your forum against your will. It's your major right. You don't need to make an excuses and explanations for it. "I don't want to deal with him" must be enough. I may not like it, I may call you snoobish and le debile, but if I'll try to force mycelf in, I should be punished by authorities.

If you don't agree with it, then yes, you have a totalitarian mindset.

Going to a forum is voluntary too. What is clear to me is if you don't want a forum with newbies, you don't want a forum at all. You would stay better at a private mail list or something like that. Also, you are fogetting everybody here was a newbie one day. So, this type of hostility isn't good, specially if you are interested in promoting Bitcoin.

[Berau]

I don't think newbies should be ignored. Just because a person is a hero right now, doesn't mean that they haven't gone through the newbie stage.

If you were the person that was being ignored, you should know how that feels.

And, some newbies provide the forum entertainment by posting blatant scam anyways

[oda.krell]

Don't call it 'newbie jail' if you prefer, but re-introducing some probation period for new accounts is highly desirable in my opinion.

On some days, the entire speculation forum is flooded by useless drivel of new accounts, and moderation isn't the solution (since mods remove spam, but not troll posts).

I've asked for reintroducing the probation period before, and it was clear to me that there is no interest from theymos' side to change the status quo, so I'm skeptical it'll be different this time, but, that said:

I support bringing back posting restriction for newly registered accounts. 'Restriction' being in the form of a short period during which they are only allowed to post in the newcomer forum, and with the possible exception of leaving "jail" earlier if they write a few particularly good posts (good questions, good answers to other newbies' questions, etc.)

To be clear: the goal is not to make newbies' lives harder, but to make it slightly more costly time-wise for high powered trolls and spammers to open new accounts on a regular basis, which they need to do because their old ones are getting ignored after N posts on average.

[hilariousandco]

Don't call it 'newbie jail' if you prefer, but re-introducing some probation period for new accounts is highly desirable in my opinion.

I don't believe it ever was called that but what we name it doesn't matter.

To be clear: the goal is not to make newbies' lives harder, but to make it slightly more costly time-wise for high powered trolls and spammers to open new accounts on a regular basis, which they need to do because their old ones are getting ignored after N posts on average.

'High powdered trolls' wont care about waiting out some minor restrictions and will just do what they can to bypass them but you do put off other genuine users in the meantime who just want to contribute to the forum. The six minute wait for newbs is already pretty annoying but trolls wont mind it.

On some days, the entire speculation forum is flooded by useless drivel of new accounts, and moderation isn't the solution (since mods remove spam, but not troll posts).

The speculation forum has always been full of watery shite from newbs bickering about the price and there's only so many ways you can speculate about what's going to happen to it so I wouldn't ever expect there to be much quality discussion in there.

[oda.krell]

Don't call it 'newbie jail' if you prefer, but re-introducing some probation period for new accounts is highly desirable in my opinion.

I don't believe it ever was called that but what we name it doesn't matter.

Precisely what I said.

To be clear: the goal is not to make newbies' lives harder, but to make it slightly more costly time-wise for high powered trolls and spammers to open new accounts on a regular basis, which they need to do because their old ones are getting ignored after N posts on average.

'High powdered trolls' wont care about waiting out some minor restrictions and will just do what they can to bypass them but you do put off other genuine users in the meantime who just want to contribute to the forum. The six minute wait for newbs is already pretty annoying but trolls wont mind it.

I doubt that.

Like I said, they need to re-open accounts all the time because the old ones get ignored, so it means at the very least they now have one additional task (keep "grooming" a new batch of accounts for later posting).

On some days, the entire speculation forum is flooded by useless drivel of new accounts, and moderation isn't the solution (since mods remove spam, but not troll posts).

The speculation forum has always been full of watery shite from newbs bickering about the price and there's only so many ways you can speculate about what's going to happen to it so I wouldn't ever expect there to be much quality discussion in there.

Now we're talking. So the forum I mentioned is just a bunch of idiots posting anyway, and little of value is lost if it's drowned by trolls.

Talk about "watery shite" arguments, huh?

[tspacepilot]

Really? You open a topic claiming to restrict the people to post iand to turn to turn the forum a "circle of commons" and now I'm a totalitarian?

This quote is ideal for you:

«Solamente los débiles eluden la confrontación con hombres que no piensan como ellos. Ninguno de los estadistas de las grandes naciones occidentales rehúsan hablar con los dirigentes de los países comunistas. Nosotros no queríamos ser jamás gobernantes de un pueblo que tiene miedo de confrontar sus ideas con otras ideas».

Translating:

Only the debils elude the confrontation with men who don't think like them. None of the statesmen of the big occidental nations refuse to talk with the chairpersons of communist countries. We never wouldn't want to be rulers of a people who has fear of confronting their ideas with other ideas.

Arturo Frondizi (President of Argentina between 1958-1962)

Just want to help out with that translation: "debils" --> "the weak"; "the big occidental" --> "the large Western nations"; "We never wouldn't want" --> "We would never want"

Cheers!

[chronicsky]

Don't even know what this Newbie Jail is but as i see it , it might have been a feature in past , stopping newbie's from commenting or something. But whatever it may be , i don't think it shall be done.Since alot of newbie's here are legit and some who doesn't leave their local area are active regular and are still newbie or so , just because they just lurk the forums.

[kuusj98]

This is to persuade Theymos to open newbie jail.
Secondbest option, IMO, would be status-based filtering. Instead of lengthy ignore list, being able to set something like "show legendary, heroes and seniors only".

Uhm, ignoring ALL newbies and members and full members is a bit extreme don't you think? There are a lot of people in these ranks who don't post shit and shit only.
I vote for a reopen of the newbiejail though, too damn many people selling 128 GB iPhone's 6+ for 100$ on fresh accounts