Amhash crisis management and co-ordination

[l3sny]

Hi all,

A group of people who invested in Amhash have decided to pool their efforts in order to co-ordinate their actions to investigate what really happened with our investments. We want to gain more information on the circumstances and people involved in it, their motivation and most of all to  protect the interests of the investors. This may include legal assistance and co-operation with relevant Chinese authorities if necessary.  For this purpose all further actions will be co-ordinated by our team. At this stage I am the person who agreed to come forward however I am being assisted by a number of other members of this forum who preferred to stay anonymous for now.

We act for a number of Amhash investors who are supporting this initiative. Our main purpose is assistance, assessment and co-ordination of our actions. Our work is free however if there will be any funds needed to finance legal assistance we will submit the options for discussion.

We welcome others who wish to join our group, please PM me if you wish to contribute and share information.

We will be posting updates and requests on this thread on regular basis to keep you informed.

At this stage for the next week we will focus on the two main aspects of the situation:

- obtaining cost effective legal assistance for our actions in China
- gathering further information and details of what actually happened

We invite all interested parties to contact us directly in strict confidence via bitmessage. We believe that this initiative will greatly progress the things, prevent further losses of all the parties concerned and control damage to the privacy of the people exposed in this situation.

Bitmessage:
BM-2cX8MZECyMgKCqt3e64siL4taziYXqK6x9

bitmessage
https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page


**Update** 09/03/15
I made a contact with EU based solicitor who is Chinese and will assist in finding a law firm with strong white collar crime background in Shenzhen. We did not discuss a retainer.
I will update once I hear further with some names.
Should you have any queries please PM me or contact via BM.

**Update** 10/03/15
No major developments yet.
We invite all the customers of Amhash to join our initiative no matter of what financial standing or amount of assets lost. We would also be thankful for any efforts to make this initiative visible in bitcoin related social media and elsewhere.

[1714971373]

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[1714971373]

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[flame1012]

I'm not able to join the channel it requires the channel name i guess.

Is this something like email, or chat?

[l3sny]

I sent you PM

[flame1012]

PM not reveiced.

[flame1012]

Can we use some encrypted chat room for faster interaction.


I've opened a room called "Amhash" on cryptocat.
U can join by installing a plugin for firefox.

[JasherEnoch]

Hi all,

A group of people who invested in Amhash have decided to pool their efforts in order to co-ordinate their actions to investigate what really happened with our investments. We want to gain more information on the circumstances and people involved in it, their motivation and most of all to  protect the interests of the investors. This may include legal assistance and co-operation with relevant Chinese authorities if necessary.  For this purpose all further actions will be co-ordinated by our team. At this stage I am the person who agreed to come forward however I am being assisted by a number of other members of this forum who preferred to stay anonymous for now.

We act for a number of Amhash investors who are supporting this initiative. Our main purpose is assistance, assessment and co-ordination of our actions. Our work is free however if there will be any funds needed to finance legal assistance we will submit the options for a discussion.

We welcome others who wish to join our group, please PM me if you wish to contribute and share information.

We will be posting updates and requests on this thread on regular basis to keep you informed.

At this stage for the next week we will focus on the two main aspects of the situation:

- obtaining cost effective legal assistance for our actions in China
- gathering further information and details of what actually happened

We invite all interested parties to contact us directly in strict confidence via bitmessage. We believe that this initiative will greatly progress the things, prevent further losses of all the parties concerned and control damage to the privacy of the people exposed in this situation.

Bitmessage:
BM-2cX8MZECyMgKCqt3e64siL4taziYXqK6x9

bitmessage
https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page

Well I don't have any news or info, and I certainly do not have any extra bitcoin or money (because most of my investment is currently tied up in AMHash); however I think I would rather join your cause as opposed to AirWolf's cause. I like the idea of taking action, but I prefer to do it with rationale rather than blind emotions. So count me in.

[flame1012]

You're welcome anyway.

[cesmak]

I'm interested too, but i've invested in AM / Amhash only less than 1 BTC, (i'm a little, little, little fish) so if i have to support costs for more than my initial investment, to try to recover something, it's clear that is not interesting from the economic point of view....

[flame1012]

I'm interested too, but i've invested in AM / Amhash only less than 1 BTC, (i'm a little, little, little fish) so if i have to support costs for more than my initial investment, to try to recover something, it's clear that is not interesting from the economic point of view....

It's not important, you're a victim and you have the right to get your money back.
You can benefit if cost is shared according to how much shares you have.

[flyingplows]

I'm interested too, but i've invested in AM / Amhash only less than 1 BTC, (i'm a little, little, little fish) so if i have to support costs for more than my initial investment, to try to recover something, it's clear that is not interesting from the economic point of view....

its a similar situation here, i entered crypto only in this autumn.. at first I fell for a gaw scam but got lucky and sold paycoins i got from hashpoints mining for a price that allowed me to break even (well maybe lost like 10$ but it doesn't matter), btw i feel bad for the guys that bought my shitcoins, they didn't knew its a scam at that moment.. next i bought some amhash shares, partly because on the opinions of this community... at that moment most people didn't even suspected it was a well planned scam just before both companies are out of business... since i was a noob i did not understand at that moment how dead these companies were and that their only hope was to scam people before closing..
so please get back my money too so i could continue my journey into crypto without such a bad decisions from the start...
do i need to register somewhere or how do you manage all this? 

[l3sny]

Not really at this stage. You will get your assets back I am quite sure of that.

[freedomno1]

Not really at this stage. You will get your assets back I am quite sure of that.

Well this is in the proper section this sort of thread so keeping a watch on it
As a sidenote it doesn't hurt havelock to show the current stock holder list, since the asset is on a trading freeze perhaps they would be willing to give it to someone who wanted it, or I guess ask AMHash they get two copies daily according to backup policies.

Here is three historical AMHASH statements for the thread

1.- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=833704.msg10392962#msg10392962

2.- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=833704.msg10610885#msg10610885

3.- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=833704.msg10631414#msg10631414

[AirWolf]

Check this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=833704.msg10737141#msg10737141

So basically: The miners were not stolen, but IMPOUNDED, FC is not missing but ARRESTED, and we are totally SCAMMED BEYOND REDEMPTION.

[flyingplows]

I guess future developments depend on whether asicminer and rockminer have any plans to stay in business, because if they don't compensate the stolen money these companies are done. However, I have a feeling that they were done even at the start of AMHash - as a last resort to make scam a little bit more of money before they are gone.  
I just hope there will be some real efforts to put the responsibles of this theft in jail..

[flame1012]

Join the chat room if you're an amhash victim:
https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.dal.net/#amhash

[freedomno1]

A quick update re:AMHash

There is a good chance that contract holders will get a significant portion of their principal back. The details are currently being worked out. Please understand that there is currently a lot of blame shifting going on, but AM management shows an active interest in breaking the gridlock in order to be able to concentrate on getting the business back on track.

Right now I'd like to provide the following clues
a) You will not get 100% on the principal amount. While this may hurt AMHash buyers, please note that AM is certainly not making a profit from this failed product in any way.
b) If you consider litigation or are in talks with a lawyer, you may want to wait this one out. Chances are that after taking into account the cost of litigation or lawyer fees you end up with less %. Also the contractual situation is very complex - you may end up suing the wrong company.
c) You may have to prove your contract. Please make sure that you got proper documentation ready. However, if you hold a contract through one of the platforms, there may be a consolidated method which doesn't require proof.
d) If AM recovers from this crisis, there may be more coming down the pipeline for affected people in form of discounts.

I'd like to remind everyone that I am not a company representative, which means I cannot warrant for the correctness of the information provided. Unfortunately the company cannot announce anything until the details have been worked out. Act accordingly.

Also, if you'd be so nice and cross post this to inform AMHash holders - I don't have a map for where AMHash was marketed.

[flyingplows]

It is an important update, but it is a bit strange that there is no communication from amhash user here to calm everything down.. Or are they just trying to kinda unofficially spread some resolution rumors and then look how the customers react to this and that before making an official announcement... We'll see..

[kavellino]

Looks like today was the announcement.  We won't get paid for the downtime, but apparently they will stay in operation and start payouts.  I personally lost 4 BTC but had/have 39000 GHs so restarting is great news (if it actually happens).  The way they behaved in the Hashie mess said they were not crooks, but had something very bad happen.  I absolutely avoid Havelock since their whole thing seems weird.  Lets all hope that AMHash can get back on track and revive the mining operation.

[flyingplows]

Looks like today was the announcement.  We won't get paid for the downtime, but apparently they will stay in operation and start payouts.  I personally lost 4 BTC but had/have 39000 GHs so restarting is great news (if it actually happens).  The way they behaved in the Hashie mess said they were not crooks, but had something very bad happen.  I absolutely avoid Havelock since their whole thing seems weird.  Lets all hope that AMHash can get back on track and revive the mining operation.

WHAT ?! What announcement are you talking about ?! I see no announcement that they are going to resume payouts... To my understanding they are just going to move your balance to havelock so they could close their website more easily... I think you sir completely missunderstood what was said. Or maybe you have some other news? Please share, it would be most appreciated  

[kavellino]

Since as of 3/22/15 I again have a balance.  Prior I had a 0 balance BTC.  So they must plan on something happening with the balance and at some point resume payouts or why show a BTC balance on customer accounts.  People are yelling SCAM and PONZI.  Yet I never put any money into AMHASH (just converted my Hashie account) and they are no offering to sell anything.  So if they are a scam they are behaving like the strangest mining scam I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of them.

[l3sny]

Yes, patience is a practice for the spirit.
Something is telling me that the things are being attended slowly but surely. But this is only my intuition, I hope I am not wrong

[kavellino]

There is now an offer on the table from Havelock to pay our the AMHash contracts at .0003BTC per unit of the AMHash contracts.  Which works out to about 30% of costs.  I don't like it, but it may be the only way to salvage anything from this mess.  Basically you multiply your GHs on AMHash by .0003 and that's how much you would get in payback in BTC.  Or you can wait and see if something better happens.  I think I'm going to take it and move on.

[l3sny]

Absolutely. The problem is whether by taking this offer you are surrendering your rights for the remaining 70%. I think that it would be prudent to make a statement that by accepting the offer we do not resign\waive our rights for the rest of the and we treat is as an interim payment. At the end of the day it will be to a judge to decide if this waiver is binding or not (but I know on the basis of the case law that if you make such a statement all the waivers would be ineffective). In essence you are in a situation that you are forced to accept a solution which you do not like. So same needs to be expressed to avoid any confusion and protect the rights in the future. THis is my common sense approach.

[JorgeStolfi]

The Compleat Scammer Manual advises that, once the victims have passed the stages "shock", "rage", and "despair", the scammer should tell them that he managed to recover 20-30% of the amount lost.  That way, the victims will feel happy, may even thank the scammer and think good of him, and are much less likely to keep hunting for him and for the other 70-80%.

[l3sny]

Perhaps there is a genuine effort to cover some of the losses however there is no need to waive the rights to claim the rest. It is sufficient to communicate this via e-mail to havelock or better also to rockminer and asicminer prior to the transfer. I think we should all take what they are offering and communicate we do not accept the waiver of rights.

[delightcoin]

Perhaps there is a genuine effort to cover some of the losses however there is no need to waive the rights to claim the rest. It is sufficient to communicate this via e-mail to havelock or better also to rockminer and asicminer prior to the transfer. I think we should all take what they are offering and communicate we do not accept the waiver of rights.

We are 4 shareholders and we are not going to accept this joke! We started the diplomatic correspondence with Chinese Embassy and we will put those scammers in jail, where they belong!

[l3sny]

Perhaps there is a genuine effort to cover some of the losses however there is no need to waive the rights to claim the rest. It is sufficient to communicate this via e-mail to havelock or better also to rockminer and asicminer prior to the transfer. I think we should all take what they are offering and communicate we do not accept the waiver of rights.

We are 4 shareholders and we are not going to accept this joke! We started the diplomatic correspondence with Chinese Embassy and we will put those scammers in jail, where they belong!

I do not think it is pragmatic or makes any sense.

[delightcoin]

Perhaps there is a genuine effort to cover some of the losses however there is no need to waive the rights to claim the rest. It is sufficient to communicate this via e-mail to havelock or better also to rockminer and asicminer prior to the transfer. I think we should all take what they are offering and communicate we do not accept the waiver of rights.

We are 4 shareholders and we are not going to accept this joke! We started the diplomatic correspondence with Chinese Embassy and we will put those scammers in jail, where they belong!

I do not think it is pragmatic or makes any sense.

Do you think it is pragmatic to leave all your shares and rights for a quarter of what you invested, even if on the contract of amhash1, it's clearly stated, that if delay happens, amhash buys back at IPO price?

We already started everything and believe me, this is the best for putting light on the whole scenario they came up with. The police will start an investigation and everything will be revealed, the Friedcat story also. And if they were lieing about Friedcat, they will never do any mining, because all of them will be jailed.

[l3sny]

Perhaps there is a genuine effort to cover some of the losses however there is no need to waive the rights to claim the rest. It is sufficient to communicate this via e-mail to havelock or better also to rockminer and asicminer prior to the transfer. I think we should all take what they are offering and communicate we do not accept the waiver of rights.

We are 4 shareholders and we are not going to accept this joke! We started the diplomatic correspondence with Chinese Embassy and we will put those scammers in jail, where they belong!

I do not think it is pragmatic or makes any sense.

Do you think it is pragmatic to leave all your shares and rights for a quarter of what you invested, even if on the contract of amhash1, it's clearly stated, that if delay happens, amhash buys back at IPO price?

How did you came to this conclusion? I do not want to embark on a discussion leading to nowhere.

I want to recover all the assets that are to be recovered. I am absolutely sure that frenetic actions like calling Russian politicians, Chinese Embassy etc. looks chaotic, desperate and ridiculous.  But this is just my opinion you will do whatever you want.

[delightcoin]

Perhaps there is a genuine effort to cover some of the losses however there is no need to waive the rights to claim the rest. It is sufficient to communicate this via e-mail to havelock or better also to rockminer and asicminer prior to the transfer. I think we should all take what they are offering and communicate we do not accept the waiver of rights.

We are 4 shareholders and we are not going to accept this joke! We started the diplomatic correspondence with Chinese Embassy and we will put those scammers in jail, where they belong!

I do not think it is pragmatic or makes any sense.

Do you think it is pragmatic to leave all your shares and rights for a quarter of what you invested, even if on the contract of amhash1, it's clearly stated, that if delay happens, amhash buys back at IPO price?

How did you came to this conclusion? I do not want to embark on a discussion leading to nowhere.

I want to recover all the assets that are to be recovered. I am absolutely sure that frenetic actions like calling Russian politicians, Chinese Embassy etc. looks chaotic, desperate and ridiculous.  But this is just my opinion you will do whatever you want.

Is calling the Embassy of your state really ridiculous, when you get scammed trough a foreign company? If this is your thought, than you have no idea of trade&commerce and how it is done internationally. We invested also in other goods in foreign countries and we experienced in the past very similar scams like this one, but everytime we called the state for help, they helped us and we got our money back everytime. Why shouldn't we trust to our government and state? Are we paying taxes for nothing, so that every Chinese Jackal can scam on us? You are the one who is ridiculous, not we...

[flyingplows]

Don't really understand what are you guys arguing about... We are on the same boat, we can do both - accept the part of the stolen money they offer to return and still proceed with legal action against them. I thought about it and I can say that now I even doubt whether they would even play that AmhashLC (25% compensation) card in court because it's a joke. This kind of shit might be functional in their own schemes - havelock etc... but in any court they would be laughed at. I never saw a case where a thief would state that he owes nothing because he has an agreement which says he returned 1 of 3 stolen cars so he can keep the rest for himself 

[flyingplows]

Any updates or are you ''on hold'' while all this AMHashLC ''compensation'' is going through ?

[l3sny]

We just wait and see how the process is proceeding.